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Old 06-16-2011, 03:35 PM   #1
hoggie   hoggie is offline
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

As well all know, this is the biggest arguement between all airsoft snipers. Each one has its pros and cons, and it seems like on a daily basis that I see someone arguing about this.

Long Barrel = 510mm+ (Longer then a MK96 barrel.)
Short Barrel = 509 and below. (VSR, MK96.)

Examples of barrels and guns.
TM VSR-10 = Shorter Barrel
Maruzen APS-2 = Long Barrel

Lets just discuss this.
What I DO understand.
Short barrels DO have better accuracy farther out.
Longer barrels DO have better accuracy when shooting closer range.

Why did I make this topic? I saw someone try to say that never buy above 500mm tightbores. My gun requires me to use a 590mm, and it shoots much better than most short barrel guns.
To avoid arguements, discuss these things. This is like a baseline/template.
-Pros V Cons.
-Why you think this.
-Proof/Legitmate logic
-Type of material (Barrel) you used if you have proof (Madbull and Promthesus are completely different.)

I find this intresting because of the fact that I use a long barrel, people use shorter, and I get knocked for using it, so. This is like a "explain your logic, or else" rant/post/topic/discussion.

Mods:Take down if you are worried about arguements, this was in my head when making this, this is why I tried to avoid arguements.
-Hoggie
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:13 AM   #2
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hoggie
As well all know, this is the biggest arguement between all airsoft snipers. Each one has its pros and cons, and it seems like on a daily basis that I see someone arguing about this.

Long Barrel = 510mm+ (Longer then a MK96 barrel.)
Short Barrel = 509 and below. (VSR, MK96.)

Examples of barrels and guns.
TM VSR-10 = Shorter Barrel
Maruzen APS-2 = Long Barrel

Lets just discuss this.
What I DO understand.
Short barrels DO have better accuracy farther out.
Longer barrels DO have better accuracy when shooting closer range.

Why did I make this topic? I saw someone try to say that never buy above 500mm tightbores. My gun requires me to use a 590mm, and it shoots much better than most short barrel guns.
To avoid arguements, discuss these things. This is like a baseline/template.
-Pros V Cons.
-Why you think this.
-Proof/Legitmate logic
-Type of material (Barrel) you used if you have proof (Madbull and Promthesus are completely different.)

I find this intresting because of the fact that I use a long barrel, people use shorter, and I get knocked for using it, so. This is like a "explain your logic, or else" rant/post/topic/discussion.

Mods:Take down if you are worried about arguements, this was in my head when making this, this is why I tried to avoid arguements.
-Hoggie
I am not going to argue as everyone has different opinions but USE the barrel length that was designed for YOUR gun. Also a note on materials. Some are better then others for rattle while others for Consistency. That is all I am going to say as TBH I am at a little bit of a crossroads of late on this topic.

---Dan out---
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:57 AM   #3
newbie   newbie is offline
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

I personally have tried to avoid this issue. I understand the theory of compression and cylindar volume to barrel volume as far as optimizing power. Personally I feel that there are too many different variables to be able to acurately compare one to another.

A little insight about me. I am a quality control manager for a manufacturing facility and I work in a ISO 9000 certified laboratory. That being said I test things all day long and forming a true baseline for comparison is highly important in statistacal process control. another factory is the theory of measurement uncertainty.

How this applies to airsoft? Well I feel as though a true comparison is dificult to obtain. When you switch barrels in the same gun there are so many factors that can vary the true consitancy and accurancy of a shot just from a mechanical side. Take that to the field and the actual shooting portion has an equal number of variables that cannot be controlled. In my opinion all that one person is able to is establish a ball park overall accuracy, nothing precise.

My primary rifle has a 590 mm barrel in it and is amazingly accurate at 200 ft. I can adjust it and dial it in to be fairly accurate at 300 ft. I dont think that the accuracy is due to the barrel length more the distance. My back up that uses a 480 mm barrel is equally as accurate.

I guess in summary a true comparison of matched components to me seems very difficult to do, and it comes down to each rifle has its own set of perameters and is only as accurate as the person shooting it and as consitant based on the experiance of the person that built it
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:06 AM   #4
hoggie   hoggie is offline
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

Newbie, couldn't have said it any better. Any more opinions?
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:05 PM   #5
 
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hoggie
Newbie, couldn't have said it any better. Any more opinions?
As long as you can manuever with your rifle, conceal your rifle, and hit the target, who cares what length your barrel is.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:11 PM   #6
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

Well I have one more thing to add.

- There are two theories on how a BB travels down a barrel.

1) It travels down it with a cushion of air surrounding the BB

2) It bounces down the barrel.

(This is about the MK96) When I am talking about a long barrel I mean a 600mm plus for the major results. There will be a slight change between 500 and 580 in an MK96 but NOT a HUGE DIFFERENCE. But if you put in a 650mm barrel into the gun there will be a very noticeable difference.

For example though your APS2 shoots just as well with a 580 barrel as it would with a shorter one, why? because it is designed to be used with that barrel. So use the recommended lengths and don't go over them whatever you do. If you can't get one the same size get one slightly shorter.

Now the reason why longer barrels (longer than recommended length) are less accurate IMO

Cushion of air - 1) If the volume of the cylinder isn't at a certain ratio to the barrel (I don't know) the BB will lose some momentum and the air will run out so there is no longer a cushion around it. The BB will then start to bounce inside the barrel. This will cause inaccuracy.

Bouncing BB reason - 2) If the BB goes down a barrel bouncing the distance between each hit of the barrel will increase thus causing inaccuracy.

These are just my opinions and I do believe that the BB's accuracy will decrease with great lengths because it is not like a real gun. It is a smooth bore and there is no rifling. So nothing will happen, only momentum will be lost.

This however doesn't apply to gas guns as the gas expands for quite a while so the longer the barrel the higher the FPS. Also it will maintain the cushion of gas in this instance. - When I say a long barrel is good for gas guns I mean within reason. Not 7ft long :)
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:10 AM   #7
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

If the BB bounces inside the barrel here is what it would look like. See hoe the gaps lengthen. This would make it less accurate.


Also just to put it out there here is a Hexagon barrel and why it SHOULD work. I haven't had any experience with theses though.


And here is an image why to use proper BB's (And barrels but to a certain extent as you do need some air around it to keep a cushion. If you believe in that theory.)


Just putting out my logical opinion. Challenge it if you dare but I believe this is proof that you shouldn't put in Barrels longer then whats already in your gun. (Except maybe if you have a bore up. But whats the point of having a bore up?)





EDIT: Oh and here's a TK twist barrel for reference. I supposedly makes a cushion of air which is more efficient then whats already there. Or it creates a Cushion of air if you think that the BB bounces down the barrel. (It only works with guns shooting 1 joule)
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:28 AM   #8
woogie   woogie is offline
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

That isn't a TK twist barrel ;) That is a Falcon straight rifle barrel. The rifling is only in the last little bit of the barrel, not the entire length like the TK barrel.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:48 AM   #9
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by woogie
That isn't a TK twist barrel ;) That is a Falcon straight rifle barrel. The rifling is only in the last little bit of the barrel, not the entire length like the TK barrel.
Oops, my bad. Here is a twist barrel.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/p...l/DSC01221.jpg
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:05 AM   #10
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

It seems I am correct as I am un-contested.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #11
bushman   bushman is offline
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.

I must concur with the majority of information & comments above on the subject at hand adding in a couple of things based on my experience & testing.

A longer barrel in gas powered rifles actually aids in acting as an expansion chamber for the change of the propellant state itself while resulting in more efficiency on the delivery of power behind the projectile, however; there is a fine line between the threshold of an optimal length to achieve maximum efficiency & any length over that threshold will only result in a degraded loss in performance. Unfortunately; with all the variances in manufacturer tolerances & the variable types of propellant for use, some definitive testing with trial & error is required to achieve the best performance for any given gas rifle setup.

Over my years of testing I have discovered that the key element in knowing when the inner barrel length & diameter are achieving the maximum threshold for performance is that an airsoft rifle will actually achieve a higher FPS reading with hop-up backspin that with no back-spin applied at all. The reason being is that the hop-up actually lifts the BB slightly off of the bottom of the barrel, allowing the BB to then roll down the top of the barrel with less resistance or drag from air turbulence.
This not only allows the BB to exit the barrel more efficiently by increasing it's muzzle velocity, but also enabling the BB to travel on a much straiter path once exiting the barrel. It is both my personal & professional opinion based on my findings that many operators have experienced much better performance from a quality made 6.03mm tight bore barrel versus the tighter ID barrels such as the 6.01mm or 6.00mm ID barrels that are offered also as airsoft precision upgrade components.

A barrel that is too long or too large in ID will loose it's efficiency prematurely thus resulting in the "loss in the desired air cushion under the BB" causing excess turbulence equating to unpredictable BB scrub & bounce on the inside of the barrel before it successfully exits the muzzle.

Both the proper barrel ID & length are two crucial factors in achieving the highest performing results from any airsoft gun & each gun has a sweet spot; honestly that can only be achieved with some time spent wisely to find what works best for it's operator.

"Send It!"

The BushMan
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:18 PM   #12
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Long Vs Short Barrel: End of the Line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman
I must concur with the majority of information & comments above on the subject at hand adding in a couple of things based on my experience & testing.

A longer barrel in gas powered rifles actually aids in acting as an expansion chamber for the change of the propellant state itself while resulting in more efficiency on the delivery of power behind the projectile, however; there is a fine line between the threshold of an optimal length to achieve maximum efficiency & any length over that threshold will only result in a degraded loss in performance. Unfortunately; with all the variances in manufacturer tolerances & the variable types of propellant for use, some definitive testing with trial & error is required to achieve the best performance for any given gas rifle setup.

Over my years of testing I have discovered that the key element in knowing when the inner barrel length & diameter are achieving the maximum threshold for performance is that an airsoft rifle will actually achieve a higher FPS reading with hop-up backspin that with no back-spin applied at all. The reason being is that the hop-up actually lifts the BB slightly off of the bottom of the barrel, allowing the BB to then roll down the top of the barrel with less resistance or drag from air turbulence.
This not only allows the BB to exit the barrel more efficiently by increasing it's muzzle velocity, but also enabling the BB to travel on a much straiter path once exiting the barrel. It is both my personal & professional opinion based on my findings that many operators have experienced much better performance from a quality made 6.03mm tight bore barrel versus the tighter ID barrels such as the 6.01mm or 6.00mm ID barrels that are offered also as airsoft precision upgrade components.

A barrel that is too long or too large in ID will loose it's efficiency prematurely thus resulting in the "loss in the desired air cushion under the BB" causing excess turbulence equating to unpredictable BB scrub & bounce on the inside of the barrel before it successfully exits the muzzle.

Both the proper barrel ID & length are two crucial factors in achieving the highest performing results from any airsoft gun & each gun has a sweet spot; honestly that can only be achieved with some time spent wisely to find what works best for it's operator.

"Send It!"

The BushMan
Not necessary for me to quote but yes. Further proving my point on barrel dimensions.
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