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Old 10-17-2016, 06:37 AM   #1
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BOLT vs Mancraft

I saw the other post but wanted some more detials. Maybe why you switched/didn't a switch. Also is the cost worth it for the BOLT? I'm a little disappointed in the battery part of it, but if it's way more effiecent and quiet I wouldn't care.
So my questions are is it worth the extra money.
How quiet is the BOLT vs mancraft (can hear from 50ft away etc)
Any consistency/compression difference? (If set to same fps let's say 550 with .20 would they both shoot 400 with .40s?) and there fps deviation.
Also is there a range differences (I know this mostly barrel hop up/bucking)

Why I'm making this post
If you've seen my other post (one 450vsr build one 800 vsr build) it's because I'm eitherspending 800 or 450 on a vsr, in leaning towards 800 right now. If I do the mancraft I can get parts like EDGI barrel. If I do the BOLT I haven't I get an Action Army barrel.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:36 AM   #2
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Having tried both, I really didn't see much difference in terms of performance. There's pros and cons to both, and it really just comes down to preference. Out of the box, the bolt is probably a bit quieter, though with a volume reducer/o-ring mod, the mancraft can reach pretty much the same noise level. With bananas, they are both pretty much ambient anyways. Consistency wise, I saw +/- 2 fps out of both platforms in well tuned systems.

What I like from the bolt is the true zero resistance bolt, though the extremely short bolt cycle is annoying to me. It also lacks any trigger break so it feels exactly like your polarstar trigger which just yoinks a BB out at a certain level and doesn't really give you any feedback. It also uses electronics.

Mancraft on the other hand has an actual trigger break and has full mechanical feedback. But the bolt pull has some resistance due to a spring (it's light but it's noticeable, but i still don't like it that much). Bolt cycle is a tiny bit longer, and it uses no electronics at all. Out of the box, it's louder than the bolt, but with a few easy drop in mods, it's the same noise level.

Honestly your fine with either, just down to preference.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:59 AM   #3
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Comparing the stock units:
Assuming the SDIK releases gas through to a lower PSI than the BOLT (80 PSI stock), then at a given PSI, the BOLT will be objectively quieter simply [mostly] due to the volume of air released; sound pretty much comes from PSI and volume, with a bit of trigger mechanism- but trigger mechanisms are not exactly what most people would consider loud.

Assuming both have the potential to be tuned to perfection (volume/PSI)- probably true:
The only difference is price and mechanism; this is where most people would prefer the SDIK- cheaper, no battery needed, and retains crisp/responsive trigger pull. I personally still prefer the BOLT because I don't much mind the trigger feel or battery use, and love the complete lack of sound made by the actual unit.

Unless one unit has pretty serious design flaws allowing [inconsistent] leaks, both should be able to attain the same consistency, as consistency pretty much comes directly from your regulators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenoobatsniping View Post
Any consistency/compression difference? (If set to same fps let's say 550 with .20 would they both shoot 400 with .40s?) and there fps deviation.
Out of the box, yes there are differences, and no they would not scale the same. This is due to the fact that if you tuned both systems' PSI's to shoot the same power at a .2g BB, they're doing so at a different volume. Think:
BOLT: a + b = x
SDIK: c + d = x
Where 'a' and 'c' are volumes, and 'b' and 'd' are PSIs.
I suppose I could be wrong, and increasing the PSI the same amount would result in the same power increase on both [differently-volumed] systems, but that would seem quite odd and unlikely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenoobatsniping View Post
Also is there a range differences (I know this mostly barrel hop up/bucking)
Range is muzzle velocity and BB weight.

Note:
I tried to make it fairly clear, but I'll be explicit. Through my response, we're assuming the SDIK releases gas through to a lower PSI than 80. This is almost certain it would seem simply being logical, because the BOLT is purposely designed to cut off air flow at a higher PSI (80, stock- will be changeable later) to 'save air' as they advertise; Wolverine went out of their way to create a system like this- the SDIK probably releases down closer to 0 PSI- much greater volume of air.
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:52 PM   #4
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THank you both. Im leaning towards the BOLT now due to both of your responses and input. I don't think the trigger will bother me.

Do you think the air saving and noise makes the BOLT worth the extra money?
What connector does the BOLT use? basically do I need an adapter for my small brick type?
Sorry for more questions just want to be sure before I make such a big purchase
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:02 PM   #5
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Totally your call if you think it's worth the cost. I will say I ordered two mancraft systems for the price I would have paid for a bolt though. Pretty sure the connector for the bolt is a standard JST connector like any other FCU driven gun.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:09 PM   #6
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I would go with the SDIK without doubt. It's half the price (138 vs 275 USD), provides better gas mileage, doesn't require batteries (and you can submerge that thing without worries), has good trigger feedback compared to the dead trigger in the BOLT

It seems to me the only "pro" in the BOLT is the psychological effect of a better marketing team, that just works better publicity and a good old "more expensive means better" trick.. Oh, and 'murica. Now seriously, the marginally lower sound and supposed lower vibrations would never compensate for a dead trigger, at least for my personal taste. Trigger control is extremely important for accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
because the BOLT is purposely designed to cut off air flow at a higher PSI (80, stock- will be changeable later) to 'save air' as they advertise;
yet it seems people are consistently reaching the same or even more shots per cartridge in the SDIK than the BOLT... so I'm not so sure about Wolverine's claims

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
the SDIK probably releases down closer to 0 PSI- much greater volume of air.
Unless you're living in the vacuum of space, that's pretty much impossible. Atmospheric pressure is abut 15PSI :P :P
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
I would go with the SDIK without doubt. It's half the price (138 vs 275 USD), provides better gas mileage, doesn't require batteries (and you can submerge that thing without worries), has good trigger feedback compared to the dead trigger in the BOLT

It seems to me the only "pro" in the BOLT is the psychological effect of a better marketing team, that just works better publicity and a good old "more expensive means better" trick.. Oh, and 'murica. Now seriously, the marginally lower sound and supposed lower vibrations would never compensate for a dead trigger, at least for my personal taste. Trigger control is extremely important for accuracy.


yet it seems people are consistently reaching the same or even more shots per cartridge in the SDIK than the BOLT... so I'm not so sure about Wolverine's claims


Unless you're living in the vacuum of space, that's pretty much impossible. Atmospheric pressure is abut 15PSI :P :P
Ok I'm leaning between to the sdik now. I didn't think think about the electrical part of the BOLT and around here we can get some rain. (Then again my g36 was fine and I've i used a peq box on that)

I might start with the sdik and spend the extra money On the barrel, scope and bbs. And if I want to I can try a BOLT later.

When the time is a little closer I'll ask my local tech for his opinion since he knows my play style and me the best. (No offense to anyone hers)

Last edited by Thenoobatsniping; 10-17-2016 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenoobatsniping View Post
Ok I'm leaning between to the sdik now. I didn't think think about the electrical part of the BOLT and around here we can get some rain. (Then again my g36 was fine and I've i used a peq box on that)

I might start with the sdik and spend the extra money On the barrel, scope and bbs. And if I want to I can try a BOLT later.

When the time is a little closer I'll ask my local tech for his opinion since he knows my play style and me the best. (No offense to anyone hers)
Edit-also thanks for answering all my ?s. I believe all of y'all have responded to on one/More of my posts and i want to say thank you. You have all helped a lot
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:16 PM   #9
 
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Having used both, more time on the Sdik then the BOLT. For what I do, I like the Bolt better.

Performance wise, they are roughly the same after tuning them. (Some are more, others less, depends on what you do and how you set it up.) Variances in FPS are directly related to your Regulation System and how well you built it. (Typically)

Pro tip:
If budget is a determining factor in your build, (which it sounds like) DO NOT SKIMP OUT ON THE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE BARREL GROUP AND GOOD BBS!

You can have the best HPA system ever built, but it will do you no good if you can not hit anything.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazmaburn View Post
Having used both, more time on the Sdik then the BOLT. For what I do, I like the Bolt better.

Performance wise, they are roughly the same after tuning them. (Some are more, others less, depends on what you do and how you set it up.) Variances in FPS are directly related to your Regulation System and how well you built it. (Typically)

Pro tip:
If budget is a determining factor in your build, (which it sounds like) DO NOT SKIMP OUT ON THE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE BARREL GROUP AND GOOD BBS!

You can have the best HPA system ever built, but it will do you no good if you can not hit anything.
Ok thank you. My plan is to get the sdik and upgrade to BOLT Hennessy I have the $$$
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
I would go with the SDIK without doubt. It's [...] provides better gas mileage

[quoting me]
yet it seems people are consistently reaching the same or even more shots per cartridge in the SDIK than the BOLT... so I'm not so sure about Wolverine's claims
I mean I'd never attempt to tell people what they do and don't know, but I'm extremely hesitant to believe those claims; I'd place my bets on people throwing BOLTS into stock rifles with garbage seals. You can already see all over the internet people thinking the BOLT will somehow magically improve their rifle on its own- with regards to range and even accuracy...
On paper, assuming good seal on both stock systems at the same PSI with the BOLT cutting flow at 80, there is no possible way the SDIK is getting more shots than the BOLT. Though, personally, if seals are good, I think this topic is moot for anyone interested in volume tuning- as, at the end of the day, there is no magic in one over the other.
I do hope Wolverine isn't bullshitting hard, and their system does actually cut flow at 80 PSI, and doesn't leak...there will be a pretty disgruntled post by myself in the coming weeks if they failed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
It seems to me the only "pro" in the BOLT is the psychological effect of a better marketing team, that just works better publicity and a good old "more expensive means better" trick.. Oh, and 'murica. Now seriously, the marginally lower sound and supposed lower vibrations would never compensate for a dead trigger, at least for my personal taste. Trigger control is extremely important for accuracy.
Do you know how to set up the trigger mechanism for the BOLT? I've got mine more hair'd than my Tanaka- it's instant.
And I know it does sound silly, but I did get my Tanaka down to no sound other than the trigger mechanism, and I'm quite excited to have a rifle built which will literally not make sound other than a wiz from the BB! The way I see it: Why choose a BASR? What is exclusive to them? Range? No. Accuracy? No. Sound? Yes- alright I'll make the most quiet rifle to exist! :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
[quoting me]
Unless you're living in the vacuum of space, that's pretty much impossible. Atmospheric pressure is abut 15PSI :P :P

lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenoobatsniping View Post
Ok thank you. My plan is to get the sdik and upgrade to BOLT Hennessy I have the $$$
Hennessy
Sounds like a good idea to me!
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
I mean I'd never attempt to tell people what they do and don't know, but I'm extremely hesitant to believe those claims; I'd place my bets on people throwing BOLTS into stock rifles with garbage seals. You can already see all over the internet people thinking the BOLT will somehow magically improve their rifle on its own- with regards to range and even accuracy...
On paper, assuming good seal on both stock systems at the same PSI with the BOLT cutting flow at 80, there is no possible way the SDIK is getting more shots than the BOLT. Though, personally, if seals are good, I think this topic is moot for anyone interested in volume tuning- as, at the end of the day, there is no magic in one over the other.
I do hope Wolverine isn't bullshitting hard, and their system does actually cut flow at 80 PSI, and doesn't leak...there will be a pretty disgruntled post by myself in the coming weeks if they failed there.


Do you know how to set up the trigger mechanism for the BOLT? I've got mine more hair'd than my Tanaka- it's instant.
And I know it does sound silly, but I did get my Tanaka down to no sound other than the trigger mechanism, and I'm quite excited to have a rifle built which will literally not make sound other than a wiz from the BB! The way I see it: Why choose a BASR? What is exclusive to them? Range? No. Accuracy? No. Sound? Yes- alright I'll make the most quiet rifle to exist! :D



lol




Hennessy
Sounds like a good idea to me!
Thank you for all the input. My autocorrect very crazy lol I don't want to know what I actually typed. Lol
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
Do you know how to set up the trigger mechanism for the BOLT? I've got mine more hair'd than my Tanaka- it's instant.
Yup, that was exactly the point. I don't like hair triggers.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
Yup, that was exactly the point. I don't like hair triggers.
I prefer light trigger pulls. It won't make or break a purchase tho.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:47 PM   #15
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Both are light triggers, just one has a mechanical break while the other is just nothing... nothing... suddenly BB's!!!!

In all honesty though, just go with either, go with both. Just pick your preference.
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