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Old 05-13-2012, 06:57 AM   #1
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Thumbs Up Need for Speed? The FPS Checklist!

FPS on the mind? This is a reference for all of those who feel like their BASR (Bolt-action Sniper Rifle) is missing FPS or for those who simply want more BANG out of their sniping machine.



Table of Contents


A. Accessories
B. BB's
C. Bucking
D. Chronograph
E. Cylinder
F. Cylinder head
G. Hop-up Chamber + Adjustment
H. Inner barrel (spacers included)
I. Nub
J. Piston body
K. Piston head/o-ring
L. Spring
M. Spring guide
N. Spring guide stopper
O. Stock Body




A. Accessories

1. Flash hiders/ mock suppressors/ barrel extensions
  • Sometimes these muzzle accessories are not properly aligned or poorly made and FPS can be lowered without the user knowing. I find it very important to chronograph a rifle with and without the accessory.
  • If the FPS is decreased with an accessory attached by ~5-10FPS or more, then the accessory is altering the BB's flight in some way.
2. Proper Alignment
  • Make sure that all available threading is secured properly and the inner barrel is aligned straight so the accessory does not touch the BB.

B. BB's


1. Washing/Cleaning
  • https://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/showthread.php?t=1040 <- This entire thread discusses techniques and experiences with washing BB's. This method does not improve FPS dramatically, but it evens out and cleans the surface of certain BB's for more consistent and slightly better FPS/accuracy.
2. BB brand quality
  • Certain brands are known for having bad BB polish, uneven internal bubbles, varying weight, and varying sizes. All of these components are important for consistent FPS as well as creating higher or lower FPS readings in a chronograph. Sometimes bad quality BB's will create low FPS readings as mentioned in the next point.
3. For chronograph readings
  • Using a different brand of 0.20g BB's will alter your FPS reading for better or for worse. If you suspect your rifle is shooting lower than expected, try a different brand of high quality BB's. I have noticed as much as a 20FPS difference just from switching to a different BB brand.
C. Bucking


1. Thorough Cleaning

2. Simple Cleaning
  • A dirty bucking can ruin your FPS consistency, FPS output, and accuracy. For a simple clean, remove the bucking from the barrel and wash it with soap and warm water (inside & out) until you believe it is fully cleansed. Allow the wet bucking to air dry and re-install. You can apply grease on the outside of the bucking to assist the installation of any nubs (i.e. PSC/SCS nub.) Avoid any grease/lube/oil from contacting the inside of a bucking. It causes the BB to slip and contact the bucking in unpredictable ways which will cause inconsistent FPS.
3. Proper Installation
  • Make sure that the bucking is properly aligned with your inner barrel so the bucking maintains a proper seal. Some people install the bucking improperly and experience a lower FPS reading because of air loss.
4. Type of Bucking
  • Hard buckings and soft buckings effect FPS depending on the expected FPS output. Harder buckings are recommended for higher FPS setups.
5. Brand of Bucking
  • Certain brands work better than others when sealing for compression. Nine-ball, Prometheus, Firefly, Systema, TM, and PDI are all known to have great air sealing reputations.
6. ABB Rings
  • These rings were specifically made for VSR/Bar-10 rifles by a user named Noobie. Until I can gain more information regarding where to purchase these rings, I will leave this section incomplete for the moment.

7. Dental Floss Mod
  • This mod apparently works just as well as ABB rings, but the biggest downside is the potential of damaging your bucking if tightened too much or if very thin floss is used. This link will demonstrate installation: http://youtu.be/QInMxQPKyb8
8. Silicone Paste Mod
  • This is similar to the teflon tape mod, but it uses silicone paste instead. Silicone paste/glue also ensures better conjoining of the bucking and inner barrel compared to teflon taping.
  • With the bucking installed, silicone paste/glue can be applied to the very end of the bucking where the bucking and inner barrel meet. This is the same side where teflon taping occurs. The glue/paste can also be applied under the bucking, but this is up to the user.
9. Teflon Tape Mod
  • This is a very common mod to increase the air seal between the inner barrel and the bucking. It is possible to teflon tape the inner barrel beneath the bucking (before it's installed) and then teflon taping once more after the bucking is installed. Either method in my experience creates identical results. This is how teflon taping only on top of the bucking looks like: http://youtu.be/7-IC50_MqUg?t=1m17s
10. Damaged Bucking
  • A damaged bucking will almost always decrease FPS. If there are holes or tears in your bucking then it's time to replace it. These holes and tears will not only effect your FPS output, but also your FPS consistency and accuracy.


D. Chronograph


1. Chronograph Brand
  • Xcortech is a highly recommended chronograph because it gives the closest approximation to a BB's REAL FPS.
  • Madbull is known to have an average deviation of +/-30 FPS and sometimes as much as 100FPS in several occurences.
  • If you believe your FPS is lower than expected and you've done all that you could with internal parts, try a different chronograph and re-test your FPS. I've personally experienced a difference of 35 FPS when going from a Madbull to an Xcortech.
2. Aiming consistency/angle
  • When chronoing, make sure to aim exactly the same for each shot. The sensors on most chronographs capture speeds differently when the BB is traveling at different angles. Consistent aiming will ensure proper readings.
3. Distance when chronoing
  • The distance of the muzzle to the chronograph's sensors can effect FPS readings. I usually remove the muzzle adapter for chronographs that include this option. You must be more careful when aiming through the chronograph opening, but this will allow more accurate FPS readings.
4. Vibration
  • Make sure to not contact the chronograph or vibrate the chronograph in any way, otherwise FPS readings may show much lower readings than expected.


5. BB brand
  • Please refer to section #3 of BB's
6. Battery Life
  • Low battery life sometimes affects FPS readings. Some people claim to get high readings while others get low readings. Just make sure the chronograph being used is properly charged.


E. Cylinder



1. Cleaning
  • Too much dirt, grease, or oil can effect FPS. Use soap and water and/or rubbing alcohol to clean all the dirt/grease inside the cylinder. Allow to air-dry or use lint-free cloth.
2. Re-greasing
3. Teflon and other coated Cylinders
  • These cylinders allow for smoother bolt operation (push+pull), but they do not necessarily increase FPS like one would expect. In fact from my experience, the FPS readings from a non-coated cylinder is the same as a coated one.
4. Bore-up Cylinder for VSR/Bar-10 platforms
  • There are bore-up cylinders available for these platforms which increase the cylinder volume. The volume increase is not tremendously larger, but they can increase FPS just enough to make a difference.


F. Cylinder head



1. Taper/bevel mod
2. Teflon tape mod
3. Nozzle polishing mod
  • This modification may increase FPS by 10-30 FPS. This involves applying at least 2 coats of clear nail polish (or any hard + chip resistance substance) onto the cylinder head nozzle. This allows for better air seal between the cylinder head nozzle and the bucking lips. This picture I rendered should give a better idea:
4. Nozzle boring mod
  • It is possible to bore out (increase the inner diameter) of the cylinder head's nozzle a little more. This will enlarge the passage that air can flow through which enables more air to accelerate the BB.
  • Please note: It is possible to permanently ruin your cylinder head so perform this mod at your own discretion.
  • To bore out the nozzle, you can use a rotating tool of some sort (drill, dremel, etc.) and carefully sand the inside of the nozzle until you are content with the diameter increase.
  • Quote:
    Boring out the nozzle does indeed increase FPS, by a fair amount if your not shy with the drill size..... combine this with a deep ported and polished cylinder head and you can gain around 60 fps if done right and you get the port shape right. -Vindicareassassin
5. O-ring replacement

  • If your o-ring is severely damaged then simply find an o-ring replacement at your nearest hardware store. Although requiring a cylinder o-ring replacement is not too common, finding a replacement is at the utmost importance.

G. Hop-up Chamber + Adjustment



1. O-ring replacement for PDI Chambers
  • The o-rings for the PDI hop up chambers were designed for a better air seal. They act similar to teflon taping both ends of the bucking to your inner barrel. If you are suspecting FPS loss somewhere and all else fails, you may need to change your o-rings.
2. Adjusting hop-up level for FPS
  • It's commonly known that adjusting the hop up too high or too low can effect FPS dramatically. Adjusting to find your maximum FPS can be tedious depending on your hop up chamber, but this is necessary to determine the maximum output on the current spring installed.
3. Upgraded hop-Up chambers
  • In particular, PDI hop up chambers include air seal o-rings for better compression and this chamber also allows the use of AEG barrels and AEG buckings- all of which can potentially increase FPS significantly.
4. TDC Mod
  • This modification is primarily for VSR/Bar-10 platforms. TDC, or Top-Dead-Center, virtually removes all hop-up arm foul play. Adjustments will become more consistent and therefore FPS will become more consistent. If you feel that your hop-up arm may be causing FPS inconsistencies or accuracy issues contact username: Cheeseman ... He can answer your questions and has the capability of installing a TDC Mod.

5. Aps2/Type96 PDI Hop-up Chamber Booster Spring
  • The booster spring included with the hop-up chamber is designated to perform the same way as the O-ring which goes around the lever arms. The booster spring prevents the lever arms from jumping up when a BB passes from inside the inner barrel. This keeps the lever arms consistently in place and therefore increases FPS consistency.
  • The spring is not required, but if you need more consistent hop up or more consistent FPS, I would recommend it.

H. Inner barrel (spacers included)



1. Cleaning
  • A dirty barrel can undoubtedly decrease your FPS output so keeping it clean is required from time to time.
  • Rubbing alcohol and a lint-free cloth (or some people use teflon tape) is all you really need to clean the barrel. Run a few cloths saturated with rubbing alcohol a few times down the barrel from bucking end to muzzle end with the bucking taken off. Once there is no more dirt residue on the cloths, run a couple of dry cloths until you are satisfied.
2. Polishing
3. Barrel Spacers
  • Barrel spacers will reduce vibration of the inner barrel and this has been proven to increase FPS slightly for various people (myself included)
  • Electrical/Duct Tape Spacer: Simply wrap several rounds of tape in at least 3 places on the inner barrel. The more spacers, the better. When placing the inner barrel back into the outer barrel, it should be a very snug fit to eliminate vibration.
  • One-piece Paper Spacer: http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/index.php?topic=82742.0
  • Wax Barrel Spacer: http://youtu.be/g-SsLg5PTaQ
  • Wax barrel spacer = 1 piece paper spacer > Tape Spacer = Aftermarket spacer > Stock Spacer > No Spacer
4. TBB (Tightbore Barrels)
  • The tighter the bore, the higher the FPS reading. TBBs allow less air to escape in front of the BB so the majority of air is forced to propel the BB forward.
  • Going from a stock barrel such as 6.08mm to a 6.03mm or 6.01mm TBB can increase FPS from 20 or even 100 FPS. It's very dependent on other factors such as compression, but in general TBBs WILL increase FPS.
  • Higher quality TBBs will increase FPS more than those of a lower quality.
5. Barrel Length
  • There has been an on-going discussion on many forums about the proper barrel length by calculating cylinder to inner barrel ratios. Calculation of these values are recommended by some, but after calculating the values it's still a guessing game because there's still many other variables involved.
  • Inferring from my testing, I will put it short and bluntly... if you are running a high FPS setup ~500-550 FPS, a longer barrel will give you a higher FPS reading because there's more inner barrel for the BB to accelerate. In other words, a m150 spring will most likely have a higher FPS reading in a 6.03mm TBB which is longer than another 6.03mm TBB of the same company... as long as it's not ridiculously long (i.e. 800mm)
  • Inner barrels which are too long actually lose FPS because the BB has more time to bounce around the inner barrel. How long is too long? It's dependent on the FPS you are deciding to run. 400 FPS with a 800mm TBB is probably too long
6. Short vs. Long Inner Barrels
  • Vsr-10 G-spec's barrel length is shorter than other sniper rifle lengths so the FPS is commonly lower because the BB does not have adequate space to accelerate. If you want to easily increase FPS, increase the length of your inner barrel.
  • Quote:
    Dont be fooled by a short barrel vs fps, you can get almost as much fps from a short barrel as you can from a long, PROVIDED that, and this is the most important thing, the cylinder a barrel volume are matched, you should be aiming for a ratio of between 1.7 & 2.4 cylinder volume over ANY barrel length, lower volume suits lighter ammo, higher volume suits heavy.

    Obviously, this is all relative as should you fit a longer barrel your fps will undowtedly go up, but if you prefer to use a scout length rifle, as I have been known to do upon occassion, then feel comfty in the knowledge you to can still use the big number fps' you just have to put a little more effort into extracting it. -Vindicareassassin
7. LRB (Long Range Barrels)
  • Quote:
    LRBs do indeed increase fps, as they reduce the amount of required hop pressure to lift any given weight of bb, there-by giving an increase in fps as its not being waisted trying to push the bb passed the hop nub...... obviously you cant predict how much fps gain you get as that is governed by the bend amount in your LRB vs the bb weight you are using, but be sure there will be a gain of some sort.

    As an aside from this, long hops, of which ever form you choose, also benefit in the same way for similar reasons as LRBs to a certain degree, ie. hop nub pressure vs lift given...... the fps gain is marginal but if your after that last enth......, so may also be worth a mention -Vindicareassassin


I. Nub


1. Proper Alignment
  • Improper alignment of a nub can actually affect the FPS, although not significantly. BBs touch the bucking underneath a nub so a misaligned nub can force a BB to have more or less contact with the bucking affecting FPS readings.


2. Nub Health
  • The same issue as above arises when a nub is deformed from constant usage.
3. Nub Type + brand

  • Different nub shapes, sizes, hardness cause different bucking formations once pressure from the nub is applied to the bucking. Contact of a BB with these different bucking formations will effect FPS only slightly.

J. Piston body



1. Cleaning & Re-greasing

  • Refer to the process in section #1 and #2 of Cylinders.
2. Upgraded Pistons
  • After-market upgrade pistons as opposed to plastic pistons will typically increase FPS due to their lower weight, teflon rings, or less friction build.
  • There are some piston exceptions such as the Orange Piston from the Laylax VSR-10 Zero Trigger which apparently lowers FPS. Others have also been mentioned to lower FPS, but some also increase FPS consistency at the same time (not FPS output.)
  • The FPS increase (or decrease) is variable depending on which upgrade piston is chosen and what previous piston is being replaced. Some have claimed to experience 60 FPS gain while others have experienced a 60 FPS loss.




K. Piston head/o-ring


1. Piston head brand
  • Simply put, stick to a well known brand such as Laylax. Or even simpler, don't buy the Angel Custom Type 96 Piston Head. This product has been proven to lose ~30 FPS after a short time of use.
2. Piston head shrinking
  • Sometimes piston heads shrink after being installed and used for quite some time. This is not very common, but if you suspect this to be the case, try a cylinder compression test: http://youtu.be/FlV5peGEnag
  • When doing the above test, only the piston w/ head and cylinder head should be installed to the cylinder. Move the piston up and down and if it's difficult to move the piston up towards the cylinder head while your finger is covering the cylinder head nozzle, then your piston head is in fine condition.
3. Piston head damage
  • If you fail the test from #2, then you should replace your piston head when possible. A LOT of FPS can be missing from a damaged piston head.
4. O-ring replacement on pistons
  • Once again, if you fail the test from #2 then you may be losing a lot of FPS. Buy a replacement o-ring from your nearest hardware store.



L. Spring



1. Spring brand
  • Laylax springs are quite reliable and do not compress quite that fast.
  • The only brand that I would avoid is Angel Customs. Their springs compress and lose power literally before you even get 50 shots in.
  • High quality springs= high quality performance and better FPS retention
2. Spring power loss over time
  • Springs are the primary source for an increase in FPS so it is also a big factor when a considerable amount of FPS is lost. Springs will inevitably lose power after extended use.
  • Experienced airsofters have recommended changing your spring after ~10,000-15,000 shots if you wish to regain the expected FPS output. Although a loss in expected FPS is still common before 10k-15k shots.
  • But by how much? Well it depends on how much it is used, spring brand, spring rating (i.e. m150), etc. Every rifle, person, and spring is different so FPS loss will vary.
  • Personally, I believe a spring can be changed whenever a sniper is discontent with their rifle's FPS output and they have pin-pointed that the FPS loss is primarily caused by the spring. But you must make sure that it is the spring that is causing the FPS drop and not a separate internal issue.
3. Greasing
  • Springs do sometimes grind against the cylinder and primarily they grind inside of the piston where they compress and decompress. Greasing springs will increase FPS only if a spring or the inside of a piston was bitter dry to begin with.
4. Avoiding tension loss
  • Don't leave the spring cocked when the sniper rifle is not being used (i.e. you are asleep or on vacation.) This usually results in mild to severe FPS loss depending on how long the spring was compressed while unattended.
  • Removing high strength springs from the cylinder after use can extend the overall FPS retention in a spring, but this is NOT necessary. I personally only do this for very high strength springs such as m190 and above. Since most people do not skirmish with over 550FPS, removing springs from cylinders does not bare much importance.
M. Spring guide


1. Proper spring size
  • Having the proper size spring guide allows a spring to compress correctly. If a spring guide is not the proper size (i.e. smaller than the spring being used,) then the spring can deform and lose tension.
2. Spring guide "spacer"
  • Spring guide ball-bearings are technically spring guide spacers.
  • Spacers are suppose to increase FPS by increasing the strength of the spring, but some have noticed little to no difference.


N. Spring guide stopper

1. Proper angle issue
  • Sometimes the spring guide stopper in a trigger box is loose when it's pushed fully into the housing. The spring guide stopper will tilt backward when the bolt is cocked. This causes the spring guide, piston, and piston head to tilt as well. When the piston travels forward, it is traveling forward at an angle and therefore it is not compressing air properly. Therefore an FPS loss.
2. Fixing the problem
  • Fixing this problem is dependent on the rifle platform and the trigger box brand.
  • I find the solution to this problem for the majority of Type96/Aps2 Zero Triggers is to pull out the spring guide stopper just slightly. This causes the spring guide stopper to stay perfectly erect when the bolt is cocked back.


O. Stock body



1. Vibration reduction
  • Just like inner barrel spacer mods, a reduction in vibration can increase FPS. Stock body mods may not directly effect FPS as much as other mods, but in theory it cuts down on vibrations and therefore increases FPS ever-so-slightly.
2. Foam and Clay Mods
Please feel free to leave suggestions or criticize any part of this post.
This thread is intended to be updated so this is not the final version.


It's quite late where I'm located and I'm going to knock out soon. I will probably revise and/or add more sections or information at a later time.

cguy and Vsr snoiper like this.
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Type 96:
Full LL Internals
PDI Hop-up
Prommy TBB

Mods:
Bucking-Teflon/Flat-hop/Silicone Seal
Cylinder Head-Teflon/Waxed/Tapered/Polished/Sorbo Padded
Hop-up Arms-Dental Flossed/Shimmed
Hop-up Chamber-
Custom Booster Spring/Shimmed Nub
Inner Barrel-Wax Spacer
Spring-Electrical Taped
Spring Guide-Custom bearings
Stock/Upper Receiver-Clay and Foam Mod/Air-tight Seal
Zero Trigger-Very light bolt pull mod/Sound Proof

Performance(ATM):
250ft Effective
300ft+ Max
525FPS w/0.20g; 0.43g Tuned

Last edited by SilentScope; 05-31-2012 at 08:03 AM.
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Members that say thanks to SilentScope for this post: Desert Sniper, inthetallgrass, lupin2000, MiloXC3, Never Seen, Vsr snoiper
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:48 AM   #2
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About enlarging the nozzle ID, I have sanded a stock tm nozzle from vsr-10, and noticed a hole inside it. It haven't made any airleak issues though.
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:54 AM   #3
zero   zero is offline
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Really nice guide you got there man! Should be sticky'd.

Zero
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:34 AM   #4
 
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I have written a guide on how to properly care for and clean our bucking, I noticed your cleaning section was a bit lackluster. ;)

Nice job though, mad props.



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Old 05-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Man View Post
I have written a guide on how to properly care for and clean our bucking, I noticed your cleaning section was a bit lackluster. ;)
I completely agree on it being lacklaster so I edited it just a bit

The section above Simple Cleaning titled Maintenance had your link describing how to thoroughly clean the bucking. Maintenance is now renamed Thorough Cleaning.

And thank you everyone
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Type 96:
Full LL Internals
PDI Hop-up
Prommy TBB

Mods:
Bucking-Teflon/Flat-hop/Silicone Seal
Cylinder Head-Teflon/Waxed/Tapered/Polished/Sorbo Padded
Hop-up Arms-Dental Flossed/Shimmed
Hop-up Chamber-
Custom Booster Spring/Shimmed Nub
Inner Barrel-Wax Spacer
Spring-Electrical Taped
Spring Guide-Custom bearings
Stock/Upper Receiver-Clay and Foam Mod/Air-tight Seal
Zero Trigger-Very light bolt pull mod/Sound Proof

Performance(ATM):
250ft Effective
300ft+ Max
525FPS w/0.20g; 0.43g Tuned
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:49 PM   #6
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 2,311
Lovely. I like the guide, major props. I disagree with the statement that our springs lose more power than an AEG spring, they go through 10k cycles in 3-4 days (or more) of airsofting, I have rifles that haven't seen 10k cycles yet. Even though it is left cocked for most of a game, an AEG spring is about the same, and our springs are stronger and beefier than theirs anyway.



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Last edited by Cheese Man; 05-13-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Man View Post
Lovely. I like the guide, major props. I disagree with the statement that our springs lose more power than an AEG spring, they go through 10k cycles in 3-4 days (or more) of airsofting, I have rifles that haven't seen 10k cycles yet. Even though it is left cocked for most of a game, an AEG spring is about the same, and our springs are stronger and beefier than theirs anyway.

I will edit that section because I understand your logic. I suppose there might be other variables at work because my springs tend to lose power perhaps quicker than most, but I have a feeling it has to do with how much testing I perform
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Type 96:
Full LL Internals
PDI Hop-up
Prommy TBB

Mods:
Bucking-Teflon/Flat-hop/Silicone Seal
Cylinder Head-Teflon/Waxed/Tapered/Polished/Sorbo Padded
Hop-up Arms-Dental Flossed/Shimmed
Hop-up Chamber-
Custom Booster Spring/Shimmed Nub
Inner Barrel-Wax Spacer
Spring-Electrical Taped
Spring Guide-Custom bearings
Stock/Upper Receiver-Clay and Foam Mod/Air-tight Seal
Zero Trigger-Very light bolt pull mod/Sound Proof

Performance(ATM):
250ft Effective
300ft+ Max
525FPS w/0.20g; 0.43g Tuned
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:19 PM   #8
 
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Granted. ;)

I have not had to change the springs on any but my very first rifles, so I really was not aware this was an issue...



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Old 05-14-2012, 07:09 AM   #9
MiloXC3   MiloXC3 is offline
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Amazing guide! Printed and added to my folder of useful airsoft maintenance prints for maintaining my rifle. ;) Definitely should be stickied!
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #10
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A good guide well done me thinks, very informative to the FNG


Just to clear up a few things......


Boring out the nozzle does indeed increase FPS, by a fair amount if your not shy with the drill size..... combine this with a deep ported and polished cylinder head and you can gain around 60 fps if done right and you get the port shape right.

Far more effective, but more effort required, is the rubber O ring set into a home ground groove at the point wher the nozzle finishes going into the hop rubber, so that the O ring presses against the rubber, this seals the nozzle/rubber joint far more effectively. I would still do the nozzle/polish shimming though as this helps to guide the nozzle into the hop unit at a nice straight angle.


Dont be fooled by a short barrel vs fps, you can get almost as much fps from a short barrel as you can from a long, PROVIDED that, and this is the most important thing, the cylinder a barrel volume are matched, you should be aiming for a ratio of between 1.7 & 2.4 cylinder volume over ANY barrel length, lower volume suits lighter ammo, higher volume suits heavy.

Obviously, this is all relative as should you fit a longer barrel your fps will undowtedly go up, but if you prefer to use a scout length rifle, as I have been known to do upon occassion, then feel comfty in the knowledge you to can still use the big number fps' you just have to put a little more effort into extracting it.


Barrel length is not as important as everyone seems to make out and if you are running an 800mm barrel you need a slap, and if your using anything over 510mm you need a kick in the arse, these lengths are pointless and only gain you fps over any kind of accuracy you could be using more constructivley. Longer and tighter are most definately NOT better!!


Yes, yes, there are now going to be loads of pillocks come on here and claim their 1000mm x 5.97mm barrel will give a 2" group @ 500 yards and I will call , 10 years practical airsoft gungineering experience tells me so, unless its been built specificaly to sit in a vice and shoot at paper.



Lastly theres no mention of LRBs, I know alot of ordinary folks out there don't know of or understand them, or how to go about installing them, but there still worth a mention as they are highly effective for minimal out lay, I'm sure myself or cheeseman can help with any relavent questions ( there's also a thread I wrote about them in the AEG section ), and to save you all looking.... https://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/showthread.php?t=2946



Rants, pointers and pokes in the right direction over...

Peace...

Carry on!

Last edited by vindicareassassin; 05-14-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:37 PM   #11
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Vindicare, I would like to ask for permission to quote some of your paragraphs so they can be placed into the original document. May I?

As for the LRBs, I typed up this document specifically for FPS. Because I'm not fully experienced with LRBs yet, does it have any noticeable affect on increasing FPS?

I may be planning on writing an Accuracy document similar to this, but focusing on just accuracy so I'm not sure if LRBs belongs here or there or perhaps both.
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Type 96:
Full LL Internals
PDI Hop-up
Prommy TBB

Mods:
Bucking-Teflon/Flat-hop/Silicone Seal
Cylinder Head-Teflon/Waxed/Tapered/Polished/Sorbo Padded
Hop-up Arms-Dental Flossed/Shimmed
Hop-up Chamber-
Custom Booster Spring/Shimmed Nub
Inner Barrel-Wax Spacer
Spring-Electrical Taped
Spring Guide-Custom bearings
Stock/Upper Receiver-Clay and Foam Mod/Air-tight Seal
Zero Trigger-Very light bolt pull mod/Sound Proof

Performance(ATM):
250ft Effective
300ft+ Max
525FPS w/0.20g; 0.43g Tuned
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope View Post
Vindicare, I would like to ask for permission to quote some of your paragraphs so they can be placed into the original document. May I?

As for the LRBs, I typed up this document specifically for FPS. Because I'm not fully experienced with LRBs yet, does it have any noticeable affect on increasing FPS?

I may be planning on writing an Accuracy document similar to this, but focusing on just accuracy so I'm not sure if LRBs belongs here or there or perhaps both.

Yes, you may, feel free to do what you will with it, and this 1 if you so choose


LRBs do indeed increase fps, as they reduce the amount of required hop pressure to lift any given weight of bb, there-by giving an increase in fps as its not being waisted trying to push the bb passed the hop nub...... obviously you cant predict how much fps gain you get as that is governed by the bend amount in your LRB vs the bb weight you are using, but be sure there will be a gain of some sort.

As an aside from this, long hops, of which ever form you choose, also benefit in the same way for similar reasons as LRBs to a certain degree, ie. hop nub pressure vs lift given...... the fps gain is marginal but if your after that last enth......, so may also be worth a mention
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:45 PM   #13
 
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I have not noticed the LRBs increasing fps, but we may be using different styles.



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Old 05-16-2012, 11:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Man View Post
I have not noticed the LRBs increasing fps, but we may be using different styles.

Yup, I noticed the gain when I fitted my LRB mod to my EMR, as I continued to use the .28s I always had.

I had to back the hop off as the LRB was now sending the bbs into orbit and when I cronoed again I had gained about 15 fps.....

Then I fitted my version of a long hop mod, and to stop the long hop/LRB combo sending the bb into the stratosphere the hop had to be set to bairly an angles touch, and with it I gained an average of another 10 fps.

Obviously if I'd chosen to use .4s right from the time I fitted the LRB I'd of noticed zip, and probably an fps dip from having to wind on the hop some more to help lift the bb

I think they are a trade off, if your willing to stick to a lighter bb, you'll gain fps, if you are fitting the mods to be able to use heavier ammo, then the likleyhood is you will lose some fps, whether that would be the equvilent to the fps you would lose by just winding the hop on to get that heavy bb to fly flat, level and for any distance I do not know, but experience tells me it would like as not jam before you could get it anywhere near that of an LRB/L hop combo


So surely this proves they would indeed give some benefit to increasing the fps, if in a more USEFUL way than just ''balls to the wall'' power......


Maybe its just me being anal about my limited fps and trying to extract asmuch USEFUL energy from those measely 350fps as is possible, As Ive written many a time and I've witnessed you write on various occassions.... sometimes its not about the power that makes the difference, its how you choose to deliver the, heavier than expected, projectile that counts
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:44 PM   #15
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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Well, that gain is not directly from the LRB, but from a lack of loss due to the hopup, though I think you may have said that... :P

Cranking the (regular) hop to get nice and flat at the same power level does cause jams, I've tried it. However, once you get above about 420 fps, the LRB effect still works, but the gains decrease until you hit about 650 fps. In fact, after about 800 fps, the LRB only helps if you are using steel bbs.

I knock down my power levels below 400 fps for a reason, it is my belief that the bb holds the most stable path when it is traveling a little slower. This has been proven again and again in my own testing, I can take very inaccurate rifles and just bump them down to 350 fps and they hit spot on. Basically, you're right. It only matters how you deliver that bb, not how hard it hits.



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