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Old 07-27-2018, 05:58 PM   #1
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Golf ball technology

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...es-in-golf-ba/

Iam sure a 6mm bb isnt going to have enough surface area for 500 dimples. But what about 8 mm?

They claim the dimples on the golf ball gives you TWICE as much range as if the golf ball didnt have them.... thats a lot.

I have no idea how to go about launching a new airsoft bb design. But I think the idea has merit.....

Your still using a hop up with back spin. Nothing significant to change with our airsoft guns. Its simply rethinking smooth bbs... Something obviously golf addressed long ago. The first time a dimpled ball was used in regulation was in 1900!
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:51 PM   #2
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This has been in discussion for more than a decade, but no one has been able to manufacture such thing.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:02 PM   #3
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So its probably because of the diameter of the bb vs the golf ball? Too small.

I know nothing about plastic injection molding. I would be curious to know how small of a sphere is too small.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:12 PM   #4
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I was a RAP4 dealer for a few years with their .43 caliber stuff before I got into airsoft. Their paintballs were oblong junk, the brass shell ejection was cool though....

Anyhow, we can probably take this with a grain of salt. But they seem to able to dimple a .68 cal paintball?

https://mcsus.com/blogs/archive/rap4...ng-projectiles
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:22 PM   #5
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Found this which is what I expected.... junk. But paintball guns do not have hop up. They are also chalk not paint.

I still think the theory is sound and they are dimpling a sphere much smaller than a golf ball.



https://youtu.be/CXDGGWLnNOE
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:22 PM   #6
 
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Actually paintball guns do have a hopup. The Flatline barrels from Tippman and the Apex barrel. Though the Tippman flatline is more along the lines of a LRB then a actual hopup, but achieves the same thing. The Apex is the closest thing to a hopup.

I got to test some dimpled paintballs a while back, not the rap4 ones. Did not work too well. (the rap4 ones were just terrible.) We tried them in plastic, rubber, full gelatin, you name it. Nothing really panned out. (I also got to shoot some paint designed for Airsoft guns.)

Anyway, I doubt it would work. Factor in material used for the bbs. If you want them to be popular they need to be 6mm and bio, other wise no one will look at them. With the bio materials they tend to be soft, which would lead to additional divots and deformation in the made ones. The surface finish will likely be garbage, as all the good bbs are polished, you will not be able to polish the dimpled surface.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:34 PM   #7
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I have cases of .43 cal Rap4 paint from like 1998. I couldnt sell it. It was that bad. So I believe you! LOL!

And yah, Iam thinking more like 8mm and non bio. It would be a niche market for sure. But even then a 68 cal paintball is like almost 18 mm.
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:43 AM   #8
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This has been talked to death for well over 10 years now. Can't be done
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:08 AM   #9
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110% not feasible to manufacture.

Also the dimple design in golf balls is super complicated, if i remember correctly. It is precisely applied for the typical speeds/size of a golf ball. It has to do with air drag for a sphere not being linear, and the dimples do not just apply "20% less airdrag" or something, they extend one of the air drag levels a bit before it increases, which is in line with the speed the golf ball is hit at.

Sphere air drag is a lot more complicated than other objects.

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/ai...ragsphere.html
Think this is where i remember it from:
All of the calculations shown for the cylinder have employed a smooth surface. But since drag depends on the flow in the boundary layer, we can expect some changes with surface roughness. It is observed experimentally that a roughened cylinder or ball will transition to turbulent flow at a lower Reynolds number than a smooth cylinder or ball. Drag for a rough surface ball is shown on the figure at the top of the page by the dashed line. This effect produces a rather interesting result. There is a small range of Reynolds numbers for which the drag of a roughened ball is less than the drag of a smooth ball for the same diameter, velocity and flow conditions. The size and speed of a golf ball falls within this Reynolds number range. That is why a golf ball has dimples; the roughened surface causes transition to turbulence that would not occur yet on a smooth golf ball. The lower drag on the dimpled golf ball allows the ball to fly farther than a smooth ball of the same speed, diameter and weight.

Dimples on airsoft BB's would:
Not necessarely improve range
Be completely unfeasible to manufacture
Not go well with polishing (this is basicly how they make airsoft BB's round/smooth; they have a wax polish on them)
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Old 07-28-2018, 07:14 AM   #10
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Golf balls dimples have really high tech and physics applied to them, but there're no need to go to such extent. Tennis balls get the same effect from their fuzziness.
And golf ball dimples are a thing simply because old-time players noticed their bashed out, chipped golf balls were flying further than brand new ones, so they started to manually carve the balls. And that worked. Sure it's not as good as the super precise, hyper techie dimples they have today, but it provided a noticeable improvement over smooth balls.



Considering the scale of things, "dimples" in bbs would be really small, so much so we can consider a unpolished bb as a dimpled bb.

And that actually works. Unpolished bbs sometimes gets amazing results,

For those that don't want to spend 15 minutes watching a dude shooting paper targets, the unpolished .36 Spartan bbs provided groupings twice as tight (or even tighter) than Geoff's did.

Still, those are relatively short distances. I wonder how the increased surface friction will affect the hop effect. My guess is that it will slow the spinning quite faster, causing it to fall shorter than a regular, polished bb would.

Too bad there's no unpolished bbs in the market to test it out.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:55 AM   #11
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I think i'll go with the NASA publications for now.

The only way to go about this for now is finding someone that can do the proper sphere simulations/calculations for our 6mm application.
So we can see a proper graph for our 6mm / speed levels.

Not the current airsoft energy/distance calculations.
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Last edited by Jeppe; 07-28-2018 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 07-28-2018, 12:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
Golf balls dimples have really high tech and physics applied to them, but there're no need to go to such extent. Tennis balls get the same effect from their fuzziness.
And golf ball dimples are a thing simply because old-time players noticed their bashed out, chipped golf balls were flying further than brand new ones, so they started to manually carve the balls. And that worked. Sure it's not as good as the super precise, hyper techie dimples they have today, but it provided a noticeable improvement over smooth balls.



Considering the scale of things, "dimples" in bbs would be really small, so much so we can consider a unpolished bb as a dimpled bb.

And that actually works. Unpolished bbs sometimes gets amazing results,

For those that don't want to spend 15 minutes watching a dude shooting paper targets, the unpolished .36 Spartan bbs provided groupings twice as tight (or even tighter) than Geoff's did.

Still, those are relatively short distances. I wonder how the increased surface friction will affect the hop effect. My guess is that it will slow the spinning quite faster, causing it to fall shorter than a regular, polished bb would.

Too bad there's no unpolished bbs in the market to test it out.
Very very astute observation. So its possible that a golf ball effect bb is on the market right now being over looked?
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:19 PM   #13
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I watched that video and the results were truly insane. I wonder what would happen if someone took a good standard BB (novristch, asg, geoffs, etc...) and sanded the outside or put them in a bag of sand and shook them up enough to remove the polish/roughen them up.
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Old 07-28-2018, 01:33 PM   #14
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I would think a standard brass tumbler would work?

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/58...iABEgJv6vD_BwE
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Old 07-28-2018, 04:40 PM   #15
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The cost of any dimpled airsoft bbs would be higher than normal. Cool idea, just would raise the cost.
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