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Old 07-31-2018, 02:56 PM   #16
1tonne   1tonne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppe View Post
Good example is the default 9mm springguide/spring/piston choice instead of 7mm...most other manufacturers would consider it a waste of effort to change production for that, but overall it is a better choice.

The disadvantage with 9mm springs is the piston is wider which means there is less weight that can be added onto the sides of the piston. So the 7mm spring guide like in the VSR10 is better for joule creep. 9mm springs are better for ease of bolt pull though.
I prefer 7mm spring guides etc.
I guess it depends on the style of build you have. If it is a JC build or not.

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Originally Posted by Jeppe View Post
Gigi, can you check if the SSG24 cylinderhead rests against the hopup unit when shooting?

The VSR normally has about 1-2mm gap. This can be an advantage if modified right. Try getting some thick foam (Reasonably hard) and fitting it between the hopup and the cylinder head so that the cylinder head is very snugly fitted. If done right, it can help to silence your rifle a considerable amount instead of transferring the shock (sound) to the hopup which then transfers the sound throughout the rest of the rifle. The foam can absorb a lot of sound and works a treat.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:57 PM   #17
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Norseman, we are brothers from another mother. If I can't kill a deer with it, it simply isn't worth that much money. hahahaha...Ok, maybe except a .22 Henry, just because. I digress...

Ok, so technically, I see absolutely no reason that an airsoft rifle should be more than a lever action Marlin. Ever. When I see an airsoft gun edge up to the dollars of a Sharps Shiloh, well, that's just sick and very wrong. Alas, we can't shoot our buddies with those big cannons though. Mind you, if we used 45/70 instead of BB's they'd call their frikken HITS. hahahaha. Never mind.

Anyhew, as K.D., pointed out, alot of it is numbers. Relatively speaking, airsoft parts are relatively complex to produce and the numbers are not as staggering as you'd think. Add to that the sheer number of parts in an AEG and it starts to become clear. There's also a fair amount of precision in said parts. Extruding to 6.03mm EXACTLY is tricky business and does require some finesse. So, all that considered, ok.

Does this mean we're paying what we should? Oh hell no. We're getting taken to the cleaners. hahahahaha...but hey, everybody needs their piece of the pie. There's alot of hands that these pieces and rifles go through to get to us.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:01 PM   #18
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@Killerdad,

Thats my point. I can buy a chinese made Gamo pellet gun at Dicks sporting goods thats shooting 1000-1200 fps and comes WITH a scope for like 250 bucks. All I have to do is sight it in and Im ready to start terrorizing squirrels, possoms and coons.

I buy a Well VSR 10 clone for a 150 bucks? How much money do I have to spend to make it shoot accurately? How much money do I have to spend to make it shoot 550 fps? How much do I have to spend to make the rifle reliable? Plus a scope? 300-400 bucks? More?

It doesnt add up.

Maybe the ASF needs to collectively go over there and get something into production that is skrimishable out of the box? For less money than a base rifle plus ridiculously priced add ons? That should have came with the rifle to begin with? I think airsofters are getting a bum deal here. And I know Evike isnt Dick’s sporting goods or Walmart. But I really think its not even in the same ball park.

Im doing some Cowboy Airsoft. Evike had a .45 schofield pistol for like 180 bucks. CO2 powelet in handle and bb shells in revolver. I bought the same exact designed pistol except .177 caliber at Walmart for like 80 bucks! Thats a difference of 100 dollars for basically the exact same pistol.....
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:25 PM   #19
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@Killerdad,

Thats my point. I can buy a chinese made Gamo pellet gun at Dicks sporting goods thats shooting 1000-1200 fps and comes WITH a scope for like 250 bucks. All I have to do is sight it in and Im ready to start terrorizing squirrels, possoms and coons.

I buy a Well VSR 10 clone for a 150 bucks? How much money do I have to spend to make it shoot accurately? How much money do I have to spend to make it shoot 550 fps? How much do I have to spend to make the rifle reliable? Plus a scope? 300-400 bucks? More?

It doesnt add up.

Maybe the ASF needs to collectively go over there and get something into production that is skrimishable out of the box? For less money than a base rifle plus ridiculously priced add ons? That should have came with the rifle to begin with? I think airsofters are getting a bum deal here. And I know Evike isnt Dick’s sporting goods or Walmart. But I really think its not even in the same ball park.

Im doing some Cowboy Airsoft. Evike had a .45 schofield pistol for like 180 bucks. CO2 powelet in handle and bb shells in revolver. I bought the same exact designed pistol except .177 caliber at Walmart for like 80 bucks! Thats a difference of 100 dollars for basically the exact same pistol.....
I got my well mb03 for 50$ new...
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:28 PM   #20
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How much do you have in it now?
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:29 PM   #21
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I could have you a nice accurate vsr with 250 bucks.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:33 PM   #22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorsemanSDD View Post
This may be flawed logic...

But for 1600 dollars I can buy a one mile rifle.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/prod...11356228642.do

I cannot shoot my buddies with it mind you, but it has the range of ONE MILE.

I balk at spending even half that on a airsoft rifle. Even .177 air pellet rifles @1200 fps with scope are under 300 bucks!

https://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin...air-rifle.html

Why is airsoft so expensive? It comes from Asia sure..... but so does Benjamin, Gamo and Crosman probably?

And unlike a Benjamin air rifle which is ready to kill small critters right out of the box? Airsoft rifles needs a pile of after market parts to make the damn thing skirmishable....

I dont get it.
For bolt actions this still holds true to a point. For AEGs not so much anymore.

However for the $600 US pesos it would take to get a SSG to my door, I can do a lot with that $600 on just about any rifle. (price is with 1 extra mag.)

========

Im not a fan of this type of comparison.

Its like comparing a stock krytac or a ICS MARS to a Umbrella Armory OCAW.
Though its not an ideal example.

I will say you did a pretty good job overall with the post, nicely done.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:36 PM   #23
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It takes more power to shoot an airsoft bb at the same velocity as a pellet. Air escapes around the bb and the round design of an airsoft bb isnt optimal for velocity unlike a pellet
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by NorsemanSDD View Post
How much do you have in it now?
Fully upgraded, shooting max range of 120 meters and effective range of 95-100 meters at 3 joules with 0.43g bbs. Total cost including the rifle: 290€
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:52 PM   #25
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Does that include the scope and shipping for all the parts? Im not nitpicking you. Im trying to get a fair comparison with a out of the box pellet rifle.

Last edited by NorsemanSDD; 07-31-2018 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:56 PM   #26
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Am I the only one baffled by peoples' willingness to compare airsoft guns to firearms? I mean in a naive way, I get it, they look similar, and you CAN use some of the accessories interchangeably...but truly, it makes no sense to me. You might as well be comparing paintball guns to automotive painting supplies.

After all, the things that genuinely crossover analogously between airsoft guns and firearms - such as optics - are reasonably priced, respectively; a scope fit for years of airsoft use with zero wear costs ~$30, whereas I'm pretty sure firearms require just a bit more of an investment.
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:08 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Aapo View Post
It takes more power to shoot an airsoft bb at the same velocity as a pellet. Air escapes around the bb and the round design of an airsoft bb isnt optimal for velocity unlike a pellet
I dont disagree with that.

But the lands and grooves that stabilize the pellet inside the barrel takes more machining prowess than polishing the inside of tubing.

What about stock triggers breaking?

Let me put it this way? If you bought a Remington M700 BDL and the trigger snapped off after 500 rounds would that be acceptable to you? You may want to put a after market trigger in it? But its not because the stock one is inoperable.

Im not putting any one down or their guns. I just think we should be standing up for a better deal is all.
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
Am I the only one baffled by peoples' willingness to compare airsoft guns to firearms? I mean in a naive way, I get it, they look similar I guess, and you CAN use some of the accessories interchangeably...but truly, it makes no sense to me. You might as well be comparing paintball guns to automotive painting supplies.

After all, the things that genuinely crossover analogously between airsoft guns and firearms - such as optics - are reasonably priced respectively; a scope fit for years of airsoft use with zero wear costs ~$30, whereas I'm pretty sure firearms require just a bit more of an investment.
Now optics is a whole other poop show. hehehe. I just got a red dot in the mail today for my airsoft revolver. 30 bucks. A real steel red dot that can take that kind of abuse is hundreds. No question. Allocating for firing shock is big dollars.

I also agree that although I get where our buddy Norseman is coming from, it is kind of tomato tomahto, but at the end of the day it does seem silly that my rifle that will drop a moose cold was only 250 bucks...I paid that for my EBR...in pieces! hahahaha. Then I even had to build it after.

But yeah, entirely different purposes but I think that due to the finicky nature of the ammo (the plastic BB's) you have to have a lot more tweaking and finesse to the mechanism. It doesn't have to be as strong mind you, but certainly flexible and tuneable.

In the end do I feel about my Cadillac EBR? Nope, not one bit. It's a juggernaut on the field and rock solid. So, comparatively it's the deal. I use it more often than my moose gun, so it all balances out. If I'm target shooting these days, or handgun training, I'll use the airsoft more often than not. Much cheaper ammo, less collateral damage, and so on...much to be said for it!
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
Am I the only one baffled by peoples' willingness to compare airsoft guns to firearms? I mean in a naive way, I get it, they look similar I guess, and you CAN use some of the accessories interchangeably...but truly, it makes no sense to me. You might as well be comparing paintball guns to automotive painting supplies.

After all, the things that genuinely crossover analogously between airsoft guns and firearms - such as optics - are reasonably priced respectively; a scope fit for years of airsoft use with zero wear costs ~$30, whereas I'm pretty sure firearms require just a bit more of an investment.
Why doesnt it make sense to you?

Why does the same model .177 pellet gun cost 100 dollars less than its 6mm airsoft counterpart?

And I have shot competition with a replica airsoft ACOG scope on my M4....
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:20 PM   #30
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Why doesnt it make sense to you?

Why does the same model .177 pellet gun cost 100 dollars less than its 6mm airsoft counterpart?

And I have shot competition with a replica airsoft ACOG scope on my M4....
We're in the same boat here north of the 49th too. Princess Auto sells perfectly good blowback pellet guns for 69 bucks. Yes really...the airsoft? 229 CDN. Seriously?
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