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Old 09-08-2018, 10:32 PM   #1
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Green Gas Poll

Hello everyone, I’ve been away from the forum for a good bit of time. In that time, I’ve done a hand full of builds, tried some new guns, played a few skirmishes and am purchasing another gun (it’s gonna be a secret until it comes)

So I was building/using/tuning a KJW M700 for a friend. I did some hop up work and threw in an Autobot bucking, and a 6.03 tightbore. So to do the break in, my friend let me run the gun in a skirmish.

I had on hand Valken tactical green gas, which is kinda shitty. On the field I had a couple guys offer up a couple different gasses. One guy handed me a black bottle of NUPROL 4.0 which is by WE tech I believe. Hands down in my experience this weekend with a hand full of different gasses, NUPROL 4.0 is my new favorite gas. Extremely consistent, noticed much better gas efficiency, and didn’t have a Chrono handy, but seemed noticeably more powerful.

Let me know what kind of gas you guys like to use. And Also if any of you have also had good experiences with NUPROL
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:53 PM   #2
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I honestly never even thought about the type of green gas effecting how the gun performs. It is kind of obvious now it seems, but I have always just used Matrix Green Gas o.o
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindering View Post
I honestly never even thought about the type of green gas effecting how the gun performs. It is kind of obvious now it seems, but I have always just used Matrix Green Gas o.o
There’s a cool video on YouTube I found a few years back from redwolf Airsoft comparing a few different gasses. I’ll try and find a link to it.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma Tactical View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindering View Post
I honestly never even thought about the type of green gas effecting how the gun performs. It is kind of obvious now it seems, but I have always just used Matrix Green Gas o.o
There’s a cool video on YouTube I found a few years back from redwolf Airsoft comparing a few different gasses. I’ll try and find a link to it.
I hope this link works
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:30 AM   #5
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Nuprol is a trademark of WE Europe, which supposedly is not related to WE. Go figure.
WE has their own 2x, 3x and 4x gases. Which I assume are identical to Nuprol's :p

Anyway, there's not much magic when it comes to airsoft gases. Whatever the manufacturers claim, there are only 4.

- HFC 144a, aka duster gas, marui gas... which is used only in plastic pistols
- Propane. aka "green gas", 2x
- Propylene. aka "red gas", "map pro", propene, 3x
- whatever the 4x is made of.

There's also CO2 and HPA, but those won't work on regular "gas mags", so I'll leave them out of the discussion.

I'll refer to their Nx power in the rest of the post for simplicity

For a GBBR, we always recommend to use the appropriate gas for the given temperature:
- 2x for 15 to 35C
- 3x for 5 to 25C
- 4x for -5 to 15C

Going under those temperature ranges will mean the pressure is too low, which causes excessive consumption and leads to failures. Going over risks damaging the mags.

Whenever the temperature is such that you can run 2 different kinds (e.g. at 20C you might run 2x or 3x), the higher pressure one is preferred in case of GBBRs, as it will need less volume for each shot, so consumption is lower and consistency is better. They have a floating valve inside the nozzle that will make sure to compensate the higher pressure by cutting gas flow faster, keeping the FPS at the same level.

That being said, your M700 lacks such device, which means higher pressure = higher FPS on that. So chrono the thing. I'm pretty sure that running 4x the gun will go way past most field limits...

In the M700 I would run 3x most of the time, maybe 4x when gets way too cold, and 2x when it gets way too hot. But remember, ambient temperature will have an impact on your gun FPS, so it's always better to have a way to regulate the power. Falcon gas routes are easy to use and compatible with the regular M700 bolt.


Other than that, the only thing that will make a difference between two gas cans of the same type is the amount of silicone added. The higher silicone content, the crappier performance. Seriously. Adding silicone makes sure the blowback unit seal on GBBRs stays automagically lubed, but also gets into the bucking and barrel completely spoiling consistency, accuracy, range... everything. RedWolf's test directly correlates to the cans silicone content.

So my advice is always use the dryer gas possible, specially in the M700 that doesn't have a blowback unit seal that needs lubrication to begin with.

I use and recommend Propane for summer, Map Pro for winter. There are some brands of green gas that have really low silicone content such as PuffDino, and they even have a zero-silicone version available as well, which is great if you want to keep the benefit of running pure propane without the awful smell.
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Old 09-09-2018, 05:34 AM   #6
Jeppe   Jeppe is offline
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Gas pressure has a major impact on FPS in GBB pistols/rifles. That's a fact.
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Old 09-09-2018, 06:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppe View Post
Gas pressure has a major impact on FPS in GBB pistols/rifles. That's a fact.


This has been proven to be false time and time again. It gets boring keep repeating myself, but here we go... I've actually tested this, with regulated HPA, and my WE RPK shoots the exact same 423 FPS at 80 PSI as it does all the way to 160PSI.

If your GBB pistol/rifle increases FPS with gas pressure, then most likely your nozzle is disconnecting from the hop up before the floating valve even closes.

here are some quite educational videos...

Green gas vs Propane vs Map Pro vs CO2
https://youtu.be/Nt5CM1Ri1q4

Nuprol 2x, 3x, 4x
https://youtu.be/a3Z-Wh7Dirw

Last edited by Dimitri MdP; 09-10-2018 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:51 AM   #8
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Do better research before you make conclusions. My point stands.
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:56 PM   #9
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I would like to ask a question first before I try to answer Dimitri and Jeppe. (I am not expert with HPA. Have had it. Didn't like it but I understand voluming pretty well)


When changing the pressure on a regulator from 80psi to 160psi, is the pressure that comes out at those stated pressures instant or does it allow the gas to build up to those pressures?


Reason I ask is if the gas can build up to those pressures and is not actually at those stated pressures instantly when it exits the regulator, the output is not constant but increasing. The first opening of the valve will put out lower pressure than when it closes. So if you test on a short barrel, and your regulator is set at 80psi, then the fps may be 423fps and you would use the gas to it's maximum capacity. You can then put the PSI up to 160psi and when it fires the gas expands in the inner barrel but since it is a short barrel it only get up to the same pressure as the 80psi. If you had a longer inner barrel, the gas would then have more time to expand giving more fps. (May have explained it but not 100% worded well)


I may be wrong but that is how I see it.
So you are both correct/wrong

PS. I could not see the video
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Last edited by 1tonne; 09-09-2018 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:05 AM   #10
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This one is German, but it should still be possible for you to read the tables and charts: Der groe GGE-Gas-Test - Reviews - GAS GUN EMPIRE - CONQUER THE WORLD OF GAS GUNS
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppe View Post
Do better research before you make conclusions. My point stands.
did you even watched the videos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1tonne View Post
When changing the pressure on a regulator from 80psi to 160psi, is the pressure that comes out at those stated pressures instant or does it allow the gas to build up to those pressures?
My test were made with an HPA line connected into a gas reservoir made pretty much out of the upper third of the OEM magazine. So the initial pressure was the one stated by the regulator.

Custom RPK build out of a WE 74UN, FG-Airsoft's 10% LFS for power restrictor, OEM output valve and floating valve, Maple Leaf Autobot 70 bucking, Maple Leaf 6.02 590mm inner barrel.


If you go bellow the working pressure for the given gun (in this case 80PSI) it will start to drop FPS dramatically, and that's why I suggest higher pressure gases for the given temperature: if the initial pressure is higher, it will consume less gas per shot, therefore less cooldown, which means it will take much more rapid shots to get bellow ideal working pressures.

But as long as you keep it above working pressure the FPS will remain constant. You can go bananas with the PSI and you won't see a single FPS gain (only limit being what the magazine can stand without bloating or blowing away, which is tipically 180-200 PSI)
It'll only make a difference on felt recoil (and therefore cycle rate).

Last edited by Dimitri MdP; 09-10-2018 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:10 AM   #12
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I still agree with Jeppe. He is right. Gas is gas is gas...and heavily affected by temperature. That's basic science. The composition of the gas will also affect the fps as in it's ability to expand and vacate...which also changes depending on the gas.

Dimitri, yes, regulated HPA is consistent. It's air, and you pack a large volume under very high pressure...hence regulated. Which is why it works for divers so well. hehehehe. So, you're not wrong.

Jeppe, you're not wrong either...but what we have is a case of apples vs. oranges. Two different thoughts completely...and both right.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:23 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Zero Roaster View Post
I still agree with Jeppe. He is right. Gas is gas is gas...and heavily affected by temperature. That's basic science. The composition of the gas will also affect the fps as in it's ability to expand and vacate...which also changes depending on the gas.
I've been teching gas guns for 6 years. I created and admin the GBB airsoft community for my whole country. I've tested it in every single gun that I've worked on (which is counted in the hundreds), with always the same results

Can't believe I still have to argue such a simple FACT.

do you guys have problems WATCHING THE DAMN VIDEOS with the FACTS???

Do you even know what the floating valve is for???? If that device was not there (like in gas BASR) then sure, higher pressure = higher FPS. But it's there. Higher pressure means quicker flow cut, which compensates the difference keeping the FPS constant. That's the whole point of a freaking "open bolt" GBB(R).


My example with HPA was just because it provides me with the ability to better control the exact PSI going into the system, but it's the exact same thing with compressed gases. That's what the damn floating valve is for!!!

WATCH THE DAMN VIDEOS
. Those are gas guns, running liquid gas, and they clearly demonstrate that Map Pro / 3x / red gas provides the exact same FPS as propane / 2x / green gas, despite being 30PSI higher pressure. The other video even tries freaking 4x, which is 70PSI higher pressure and even dangerous at that temperature, and the PSI stays at the same level.

If you're gonna argue against the most basic working principle of any GBBR, at least provide some proof. Or be willing to watch at the damn evidence.

Last edited by Dimitri MdP; 09-10-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:22 AM   #14
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First of all, the first pressure that needs to be released is yours. Lose the hostility man...right now. Unacceptable.

Also, analyze the question. The original statement was about different types of gas and how they affect behaviour. That's science. You may have been teching gas guns for six years but I've been engineering for over 30. Cool your jets with me, son. I know more about compression theory and molecular structure than most people will ever consider.

So, calm down. Lose the attitude...and read the question.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
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You may have been teching gas guns for six years but I've been engineering for over 30.
Nice! Still waiting for ANY evidence for your claims. I provided mine.
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