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Old 07-04-2019, 09:06 AM   #76
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Yeah, I'm not quite cool with that illustration, it's a bit misleading. The BB starts generating lift as soon as it leaves the hop up and the spin is active...it rides the top of the barrel, especially once it's gotten over the 'shock' of the hop and makes it to the end of the barrel....hence the skid marks towards the end at the top of the barrel. Now, skid marks are bad...that means you're losing inertia due to frictional losses. If that's enough to skid the BB, that's quite a bit. I try and find as hard a BB as possible and really make sure the barrel is like glass to minimize all of that...keep the energy in the BB!
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:40 AM   #77
Jinxi   Jinxi is offline
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So the kit is now available for the new bb on his site, the ssg24 and vsr 10. I was wondering where on the field, they test guns with 0.2 (belgium), so you can't pass then since his BB's only come in 0.58. Let's see which manufacturers will join the hype...
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:58 AM   #78
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I wonder what the ideal barrel length for a 6.44mm barrel and bb combo is in a vsr-10. On top of this, do you guys think there is anything special about the new hop-up bucking he is releasing with it?
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:06 AM   #79
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Some posts back there was a video posted of novritch talking about whole shebang. It’s pretty informative. New hop up is going to have longer/wider patch to properly hop 0.58g. Probably safe to assume, longer/wider nub, longer/wider inner barrel hop window, etc.

Edit: I went to the page: “Imagine you could have more range, better accuracy, and stability in the wind while causing less injuries.” lol
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Last edited by Leetworld; 07-04-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:21 AM   #80
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The main reason I will not be using these bbs: I am a safe but effective user of joule creep. I have always played well out of med, often surrendering because I am too close and didn't have a secondary until a day ago. For this reason, I could not use these bbs. In order to adhere to field rules and use them properly, I would have to request to crono with joules instead of fps, and likely lose close .2* joules because of that.

Edit: ignore all of this. My joule creep calculations were WAYYY off
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Last edited by Sodium; 07-04-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:44 AM   #81
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You're cheating dude. You're pointing out that it will not be as easily to cheat with this system as with others.
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:53 AM   #82
Sodium   Sodium is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppe View Post
You're cheating dude. You're pointing out that it will not be as easily to cheat with this system as with others.

To be honest, it's kinda cheating and it kinda isn't. Technically, I am adhering to their rules, chronoing with their weight bb at a certain fps. That being said, I would be totally open to a change in the rules. I would be fine with them switching to joule chrono, but until then, other snipers are doing the same thing so I would be at a loss.

It is interesting to note that this system might encourage all fields to finally chrono with joules.
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Last edited by Sodium; 07-04-2019 at 12:00 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:56 AM   #83
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I'll wait and see until Nov releases the installation videos to the public. Right now it seems confusing how the SSG kit has a new nozzle, while the VSR kit does not... but it comes with PTFE tape instead....

Does this suggest that you need a thicker nozzle to get a good air seal? hmm
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:05 PM   #84
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It is cheating. It is very simple cheating allowed by bad site rules, but it is cheating.


I do encourage everyone to abuse the shit out of fields that chrono wrong though. It is the only way they will learn. They don't care to spend time / hassle with customers unless it is forced upon them.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:36 PM   #85
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Around me, IF anything, a field puts their own bbs in. One field has a chart and they have a limit for each weight. Goes up to .48, limit is 370 with snipers. They don’t check joules so people can lie. Other local sites put in .25s or .32s. On Novritsch’s site it says the parts are NOT compatible with the standard 6mm bb. I’m sure people will be able to get a standard bb to work enough for chrono. Idk about most but I certainly tune my gun near the limit before I go to the field. So I get the most out of my rifles and it’s still field legal. So since this the barrel is a bigger bore, you’ll have to put in a beefy spring or turn the pressure up to get a .32 or .25 to the fields chrono limit. Then with it cranked up to meet that fps, the FULL THRUST users will drop in the .58s and be shooting a tad hot wouldn’t you say? This new system is definitely very neat with all the potential benefits. But it will definitely take some time to adapt and might be a pain at some fields.
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:07 PM   #86
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Until we see unbiased testing from someone that isn't a Youtube personality this is a sales gimmick and nothing else. If it provides better range it's due to the system not being able to be chronographed effectively with anything other than a Joule based system, which isn't close to universal yet. Not to mention, it's not like this is going to suddenly break that generalized 100m max range barrier we've been facing for 15+ years.

In my opinion the new flamingo bucking from Snipermechanic holds much more promise and I'll be testing that in the next few weeks.

Also, on the topic of joule creeping being cheating. For fields that only chrono .2g, anyone with an AEG/HPA/etc running a short barrel but who plays with a heavier bb will inadvertently be joule creeping. So calling it cheating just because you do it with intent goes a bit far in my opinion. You're taking advantage of the rules as they are written, just as you should do with your taxes if you want to keep more of your hard earned money. But you don't consider that "cheating" do you?

That said, most fields that only chrono with .2g still zip tie regulators on HPA nowadays, so at least that change has occurred.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:24 PM   #87
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Joule creep is cheating and . You know you are gaining advantage and you take it, with intent to use it and a lot of times make a rifle to gain even more. You know the rules have joule ratings and you all know MEDs and those ratings, but you know nobody checks them, so you cheat. Just because other people don’t know or too stupid to know, doesn’t mean it’s ok. With that said I have a rifle that shoots near 5 joules with 509mm barrel @ 0.48g. But I use it only at 50 or more meters. Doesn’t make it right, but I can sleep a tad better knowing I’m not hurting someone intentionally as others who stick to default MED values while creeping, especially those with aeg and stupid 5 meter MED.


“cheat /tʃiːt/ verb; act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.”
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:44 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetworld View Post
You know the rules have joule ratings and you all know MEDs and those ratings

That is the thing. It is not cheating if you are not going off of a joule rating. These people are chronoing off fps ratings.
I would say they are cheating if they were chronoing with a joule rating and then getting an even higher rating when in game.
It is not gentlemanly like to call them cheaters.
If one club chooses to use joules then that is fine. If another club chooses to use fps, then that is fine.
If I was in a country that had a speed limit of only 80kph but knew of another country that had a speed limit of 100kph, I would not call those people in the other country law breakers because they are going faster than our country. Same in airsoft clubs. Just because your club chronos off joules does not mean the person in another club that goes off different rules is a law breaking cheat.
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:59 PM   #89
Jeppe   Jeppe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AccurateDMD View Post
Until we see unbiased testing from someone that isn't a Youtube personality this is a sales gimmick and nothing else. If it provides better range it's due to the system not being able to be chronographed effectively with anything other than a Joule based system, which isn't close to universal yet. Not to mention, it's not like this is going to suddenly break that generalized 100m max range barrier we've been facing for 15+ years.

In my opinion the new flamingo bucking from Snipermechanic holds much more promise and I'll be testing that in the next few weeks.

Also, on the topic of joule creeping being cheating. For fields that only chrono .2g, anyone with an AEG/HPA/etc running a short barrel but who plays with a heavier bb will inadvertently be joule creeping. So calling it cheating just because you do it with intent goes a bit far in my opinion. You're taking advantage of the rules as they are written, just as you should do with your taxes if you want to keep more of your hard earned money. But you don't consider that "cheating" do you?

That said, most fields that only chrono with .2g still zip tie regulators on HPA nowadays, so at least that change has occurred.

I don't think that's comparable. The problem with tax systems is that they are large and complicated to enforce. So being able to get away with tax avoidance is not justifiable reason in itself. Bank robbery would not be OK just because you don't get caught either.



It is different for this issue, as it is very easy for field owners to carry out the increased control of players.


It is stupid to allow joule creep. It is a completely different goal of tuning than efficiency. There is no point.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:15 PM   #90
1tonne   1tonne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppe View Post
It is a completely different goal of tuning than efficiency. There is no point.
An efficient setup rifle can still cause JC. Look at a VSR10. When using a 0.45gm, the best barrel length is about 400mm long. This should use up all the volume in your cylinder and leave no gas left over (there about). But with this setup, you will still get JC and it is efficient. It is tuned to be efficient to a 0.45gm. Obviously, we can go shorter and increase the difference between the 0.2gm bb and the 0.45gm but that would then make the rifle less efficient for the heavy bb.
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Last edited by 1tonne; 07-04-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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