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Old 11-15-2019, 08:50 PM   #1
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Wolverine Bolt M resistance

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone use the new Wolverine Bolt M? How is the resistance on the push back to the firing position? For those who don't know, the Bolt M has zero resistance on the charging pull of the bolt handle, and then there is some resistance from the 45* sears pushing the piston up into the cylinder on the push stroke of the bolt racking.

I have one and it was pretty hard to push back. Has anyone else experienced this?
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:14 AM   #2
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OOF I don't think many people have one as of yet, but many are keeping their eye on it - you're the first one on the forum to say you've been able to use it, so we won't be able to provide much feedback until more people buy into it. How is it so far?
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shaggy Sniper View Post
OOF I don't think many people have one as of yet, but many are keeping their eye on it - you're the first one on the forum to say you've been able to use it, so we won't be able to provide much feedback until more people buy into it. How is it so far?
Well..... for me its not so good. But I think I got a dud. I have a JG BAR-10 that it goes into, and even though I tested it with two different cylinders, it was causing so much rubbing on the push back stroke of bolt cycle, that there was a ton of metal shavings and scoring lines inside the cylinder. It was really bad. It appeared to be due to additional play between the cylinder and the piston setup. Not really sure if it's something with my personal cylinders or something else with the unit itself.

However, I contacted wolverine and Rich/Cody were very helpful. They said they had never seen anything like this and created an RMA right away. The unit along with my receiver and cylinder is currently in the mail being sent back to their shop and we will see. I will keep the forum posted on how it works out for sure.

Otherwise, it's a pretty nice setup. Dead simple to install, minimal noise coming from the rifle--think about the same as an m700 (or less, as you can inherently change the pressure output of the system), and really good on gas. I use the wraith setup, and with a single bulb of co2 I was getting ~100 +/-15 shots on approx. 3J output with .32g bb's. Due to the complications with the rubbing above, i didn't do further testing.

Will keep all posted as things develop~
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:08 PM   #4
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can wolverine bolt M be paired with mancraft regulators and adapter for co2?
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:41 PM   #5
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It can. Just needs to make sure you have a high pressure regulator in line capable of giving ~180psi depending on your use.

I was getting 3J on 110psi, but it’s barrel length And bb weight dependent
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veky View Post
can wolverine bolt M be paired with mancraft regulators and adapter for co2?
HPA is Legos. Everything works together, if you use the right connecting pieces.
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beison8000 View Post
Well..... for me its not so good. But I think I got a dud. I have a JG BAR-10 that it goes into, and even though I tested it with two different cylinders, it was causing so much rubbing on the push back stroke of bolt cycle, that there was a ton of metal shavings and scoring lines inside the cylinder. It was really bad. It appeared to be due to additional play between the cylinder and the piston setup. Not really sure if it's something with my personal cylinders or something else with the unit itself.

However, I contacted wolverine and Rich/Cody were very helpful. They said they had never seen anything like this and created an RMA right away. The unit along with my receiver and cylinder is currently in the mail being sent back to their shop and we will see. I will keep the forum posted on how it works out for sure.

Otherwise, it's a pretty nice setup. Dead simple to install, minimal noise coming from the rifle--think about the same as an m700 (or less, as you can inherently change the pressure output of the system), and really good on gas. I use the wraith setup, and with a single bulb of co2 I was getting ~100 +/-15 shots on approx. 3J output with .32g bb's. Due to the complications with the rubbing above, i didn't do further testing.

Will keep all posted as things develop~
So quick update on this as I think it is quite good news.

I sent the unit into Wolverine and Cody was extremely helpful. I chatted with him on the phone while he was fiddling with my unit and we did some troubleshooting in real time.
Turns out the issue was my 45* stock sear. This was not aligning properly and sometimes causing slam firing and sometimes causing undue pressure on the top of the cylinder.

Cody tried the unit with a good trigger box and pumped off 400-500 shots and it worked well for him. He sent the unit back to me and I swapped with a different sear and I am also happy to report everything is functioning quite well.

As far as performance, I suppressed the rifle and firing at 100~PSI of CO2 I am getting around 2.9J with .32's and a 470mm barrel. The rifle is really really quiet and the feedback is pretty good. Currently have approx 3+/-fps variation but I bet that will improve as my regulator breaks in. I only have about 500 actuations on it currently.

So to summarize, BOLT M is a good unit, very nice action (1/3 travel vs a RS BASR), very quiet if suppressed, and good consistency. I run the co2 adapter right on a 90* rail mount next to the scope and it is a self contained system smaller than most scope cams. Let me know if you have any additional specific questions and I'll be happy to help.
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:47 PM   #8
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How much noise does the reservoir make when it hits the cylinder head?

Any way you could set it to 550fps with .2g bbs check how much it creeps with .4+g BBs?

This design seems a lot like the mancraft, except it uses the air in the reservoir to move it forward, instead of a spring. This reduces the pull force required but puts a lot more stress on the sears. A 90 degree version would be a huge improvement.

If the reservoir is significantly larger than the mancraft one then it might creep decently like the original Bolt. A huge reservoir with a check valve was a brilliant idea. I’m afraid moving to mechanical only system might restrict the reservoir size, and it’s not clear if there’s a check valve ‘air saved’ like in the original bolt.
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:25 PM   #9
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The Bolt has a reasonable amount of natural creep, but doesn't and can't really creep that hard. No matter what combination of barrel length, volume tune, or PSI setting, it's always almost exactly 1.5J of creep from .2g to .69g.
To my understanding the SDIK and Bolt M allow for modification that can create serious creep though- basically by altering them to release some [but not full] pressure earlier, before the full release. So instead of a pressure curve going 0-100% in an instant, like
__|\_
it would be more like
_,,'\_
This is more of what a spring will do- not having peak pressure immediately, instead building to a peak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beison8000 View Post
Currently have approx 3+/-fps variation
That's pretty much the bare minimum FPS variation you'll see using plastic ammunition- due entirely to the weight inconsistency.
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:51 PM   #10
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I just got the rifle working finally last night and it was late and tired and I was just excited to have everything finally firing.
I'll do some general testing on the creep for everyone and post in a bit.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
The Bolt has a reasonable amount of natural creep, but doesn't and can't really creep that hard. No matter what combination of barrel length, volume tune, or PSI setting, it's always almost exactly 1.5J of creep from .2g to .69g.
1.5j creep is the most I’d want to go for. I’m only really interested in getting .66g bbs up to 350fps.

I do wonder how much of the creep between .2g bbs and .69g bbs comes from the slight diameter increase of the .69g bbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beison8000 View Post
Currently have approx 3+/-fps variation
That's pretty much the bare minimum FPS variation you'll see using plastic ammunition- due entirely to the weight inconsistency.
I’ve had different experiences. I’ve both built and seen AEGs that’ chrono at +/- 0.25 FPS with crappy .20g bbs. Interesting enough changing from a pdi 6.01 to a maple leaf changed it to +/- 2fps, but did give me a considerable accuracy boost.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmoon3580 View Post
I do wonder how much of the creep between .2g bbs and .69g bbs comes from the slight diameter increase of the .69g bbs.


Iíve both built and seen AEGs thatí chrono at +/- 0.25 FPS with crappy .20g bbs.
The barrels used for testing were, I think, all 6.03mm; so the diameter increase would probably indeed be significant for my tests.

I'll slap my chrono copypasta here when I get home, but basically a lot of chonos are just wrong- BBs' weight consistencies are simply not sufficient to generate anything under ~2FPS variation. Also a chrono will have at least ~1% error, further illustrating why seeing the same xxx.xFPS reading multiple times is fishy BS.
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
The barrels used for testing were, I think, all 6.03mm; so the diameter increase would probably indeed be significant for my tests.

I'll slap my chrono copypasta here when I get home, but basically a lot of chonos are just wrong- BBs' weight consistencies are simply not sufficient to generate anything under ~2FPS variation. Also a chrono will have at least ~1% error, further illustrating why seeing the same xxx.xFPS reading multiple times is fishy BS.
I work in an analytical/chemical field measuring significantly precise stuffs and I'd agree with you... I find it hard to trust my 55 dollar chronograph for trustworthy data. (Good thing I'm really just testing my toys I guess :D)
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:18 PM   #14
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Yeah most of my BB data was measured with a Mettler AE 100 down to .0001g; with that and basic joule calculators, you can essentially prove that airsoft chronographs are not able to measure to the fidelity which they display at.
Would be nice if more people knew this- people sometimes pursue consistency based on the chrono despite having essentially no room for improvement (myself included).
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Yeah most of my BB data was measured with a Mettler AE 100 down to .0001g; with that and basic joule calculators, you can basically prove that airsoft chronographs are not able to measure to the fidelity which they display at.
Would be nice if more people knew this- people sometimes pursue consistency based on the chrono despite having essentially no room for improvement (myself included).
I know my A&K M24 that I love to talk about is very accurate. I get ~8/10 shots on a torso sized tree range finder confirmed to be ~98 yards away. I use .45g bb's shooting at ~2.8J.
Then I got a chrono and was shocked because it is +/-6fps. how can it be when it's so accurate?

Then I decided the chrono is just ball parking things so if I can build a rifle with no more than 10fps variation I figure it's good enough :-)
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