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Old 01-21-2020, 03:49 PM   #31
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My Mk23 can do 60M at 1.2J with .43g.

Takes a while to get there, but it gets there.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Corriander View Post
Donít forget SMG and LMG classes!!

Iím just glad my local field tries to emulate the TCA ruleset as best possible within the confines of the site insurance policy.

It also helps that the local community is dominated by milsim players with TCA events being the most common option.
You're right, I did leave those 2 classes off. For no reason in particular lol.

I honestly haven't played at a local game in some time. They just don't do it for me anymore. Masada and I keep talking about it though, if for anything just to put some rounds through the rifles.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by AccurateDMD View Post
My Mk23 can do 60M at 1.2J with .43g.

Takes a while to get there, but it gets there.
Still it’s just your opinion at this point 😄
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:23 PM   #34
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What? That an upgraded Mk23 can shoot a bb 60 meters? And it's something that can be measured? That's not an opinion. It's well documented and one of the many reasons the MK has a cult following.

You not believing it really doesn't mean anything. Get a Mk23. Upgrade it with a Hadron TDC, H plate, and a good bucking then have a go. Check out OnMyMk for how to do it.

I'm not going to take any more time out of MY day to prove it to you if you're looking for a video or something else silly.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jsmithski View Post
Completely agree on the DMR vs BASR. But those ranges youíve cited are inmho horse...I am a muppet for swearing; 1.13j wonít give you 60m on any bb. I was able to achieve something close to that on my rhopped Daytona with short barrel and shooting [email protected], but then I was testing range on .36g so Iím sure joule creep was enormous. No way 1.13j will give you that. No Ö.I am a muppet for swearing... way. Nope. Show me 😄

60 meters is most definitely possible and it is common in game even with a stock CM16. It is nothing amazing and is quite normal.
I have a measured range in my back yard. 50 meters accurately (Hit a person with a short burst). 55 meters with about half a meter over hang and 60 meters at about 1 meter overhang. You need to remember that these are full auto spam cannons and so often people will shoot and correct the trajectory and that may mean aiming upwards a little. People at 60 meters people are still within range for a 1.13 joules rifle. Especially if it is a full auto.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:47 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by 1tonne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithski View Post
Completely agree on the DMR vs BASR. But those ranges you’ve cited are inmho horse...I am a muppet for swearing; 1.13j won’t give you 60m on any bb. I was able to achieve something close to that on my rhopped Daytona with short barrel and shooting [email protected], but then I was testing range on .36g so I’m sure joule creep was enormous. No way 1.13j will give you that. No ….I am a muppet for swearing... way. Nope. Show me 😄

60 meters is most definitely possible and it is common in game even with a stock CM16. It is nothing amazing and is quite normal.
I have a measured range in my back yard. 50 meters accurately (Hit a person with a short burst). 55 meters with about half a meter over hang and 60 meters at about 1 meter overhang. You need to remember that these are full auto spam cannons and so often people will shoot and correct the trajectory and that may mean aiming upwards a little. People at 60 meters people are still within range for a 1.13 joules rifle. Especially if it is a full auto.
OK so you’re not taking about flat trajectory then. Fine.
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:21 AM   #37
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With the Mk23 I'd say flat to 50-55M then it'll either start to drop or you can add a slight amount of overhop to keep it at chest height for a few more meters. You can arc it farther if you aim above target but at 1.2J it already takes so long to get there I'd just switch to your rifle.

I've had kills with it out to the 50M range +/- a few meters.

The point I'm making is with a properly tuned hop up and heavy bbs you can get quite a bit more distance than most realize at low power. The Mk23 is a special case in that regard due to the amazing aftermarket accessories available for it and the fact that it's supremely over-volumed due to being a gas gun... but I'm sure someone like 1tonne can tune an AEG to do some things you may not expect it to.

I don't think anyone is saying 60M is a reasonable engagement distance for a 1.13J AEG, just that the projectile can get there, especially if they're running it on full auto and correcting as they shoot.

Last edited by AccurateDMD; 01-22-2020 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:54 AM   #38
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mfw my MK23 couldn't reach 30 meters in a complete straight line
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by AccurateDMD View Post
The Mk23 is a special case in that regard due to the amazing aftermarket accessories available for it and the fact that it's supremely over-volumed due to being a gas gun.
Joules are a result of system output and once the BB leaves the barrel all things become equal. If a heavily modified Mk23 and a stock CM16 read 1.12J on a chrono with the same weight BB and impart the same amount of backspin, they will have the same range.


Getting back to the side discussion of if a 1.12J gun can reach 60m/200ft - it can, though at the very extent of its properly hopped range with a properly paired BB for the output energy (which is NOT the heaviest available). The effectiveness at that range is where those aftermarket parts come in to play as they (hopefully) aid in the stability, reliability and consistency of both output and trajectory.

The way I've determined distances like this in the past is with 'the Tape of Truth'. It's a 300ft measuring tape I'll pull out any time a related dispute comes up or a player is honestly interested in knowing their effective range. The general protocol is to roll out the tape, have the shooter stand at 0 while the target (usually me) runs down the tape line out to the distance in question. I'll move up and down the tape line trying to catch their BBs while calling off distances for both total range (distance the BB hits the dirt) and effective range (distance where they can hit me consistently). Usually another tech will stand with the shooter to help make minor adjustments and make sure the muzzle remains at 0.


Long story short . . . do this a few hundred times and you learn a few things.
- Most players have an interesting perception of distance
- Most players don't know how to properly tune a hop up
- A lot of players are using the wrong BB for their output energy. Too light and the flight path erratic, too heavy and the BB drops prematurely
- Most players guns only reach 120-150ft effectively due to the previous two observations
- Tuning the hop and optimizing BB weight with a quality BB can yield amazing results, such as reach 197ft (60M) at 1.12J, though with questionable repeatability and so little energy a player is unlikely to feel it during a game
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:19 AM   #40
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What I want to point out too is that if 1.13j was measured with 0.2g and then the actual test was using heavier BB then obviously in gas guns the joule output will be much higher for the heavier BB, so someone could say it’s shooting at 1.13j which is simply not true. Many people do that and they don’t even know how much joule creep they got. But I understand the concept of tuning the hop up very well 🙂
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:07 PM   #41
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Well for the purpose of my Mk23 it's 1.2J with .43g. Not with .2g. I was simply using it as an example since it's the closest thing I have joule output wise to the 1.13J reference. I rarely chrono with .2's unless it's to figure out how to come in under the limit at a site that doesn't use joules.

And referring to Corriander, I wasn't implying joules were anything other than a force variable. My point was to highlight the aftermarket parts on the Mk23 as being exceptional due to A) the people who offer said parts coming up with great products and B) the NBB design where the hopup is directly under the 'ejection port' allows easy plug and play of said products. The fact that once upgraded its a hopup with zero moving parts plays a big role in it's accuracy at distance.

You replicate that by ensuring your AEG hop up is stable, well tuned, and has as little wiggle room as possible and it will also perform well - as we all know.
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Old 01-23-2020, 01:14 PM   #42
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OK so youíre not taking about flat trajectory then. Fine.

Yeh. It is definitely not flat and it is starting to push the boundaries of the energy rating.
We have a field where we have some buildings that have open areas around them. People who have full auto 1.13j rifles (measured with the bb weight used in game), often shoot out the windows of the building towards the open areas where enemy are coming from. If they miss with the first few shots they just spam upwards and the bb's fall into their target. So it is definitely not accurate but it does get the target.
If someone is at about 65 meters away, then the bb's start to hit the ground just before the person. On the odd occasion, they may get hit but it is not really very effective and often the target will see the bb coming.


Sometimes when a person is shooting at me from 65 meters away, I will point to the ground where the bb's are landing. "This one landed here. This one landed here and this one landed here" LOL.
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Old 01-23-2020, 02:43 PM   #43
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Sometimes when a person is shooting at me from 65 meters away, I will point to the ground where the bb's are landing. "This one landed here. This one landed here and this one landed here" LOL.
Oh I know that cocky behavior very well. Kinda “come at me bro” stuff. You’re a bad person 😄
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