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Old 01-06-2020, 12:33 PM   #1
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Joules vs fps

My local field has had a 500 fps limit on snipers for as long as they've been open and they're switching to joules. They're saying 2.26 joules for sniper rifles with a .20 and the owner said that's equal to 500 fps... why "change to joules" if that 2.26 is equal to 500 fps? Is there something I dont know?
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Old 01-06-2020, 12:37 PM   #2
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Do they put bbs in your gun to chrono? Or do they chrono with what you shoot? Chronoing in joules avoids joule creep or people lying about bb weights. That 2.26 might be overall. So even with a .48 your limit is 2.26.
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Old 01-06-2020, 12:54 PM   #3
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Energy is calculated based on speed and weight. Energy describes the power output of a rifle- BB speed is insufficient. Regulating power using only BB speed is completely nonsensical- getting hit by a .2g BB at 500FPS will hurt, but getting hit by a bowling ball at 500FPS will turn you into pink mist. While BBs don't get as heavy as bowling balls, the difference between a .2g BB and a .4g BB is far from negligible.

There's no perfect solution to guarantee everyone on the field is playing at the desired power levels, so the conversation of how to best regulate players' power outputs can get pretty complicated, but simply measuring in joules is usually just as easy as measuring in FPS, and already does an infinitely better job at mitigating power level variation between players due to BB weight.

Again, I want to reiterate how it is quite literally just wrong to attempt to regulate power while only measuring BB speed. If a field does this, you should be very cautious, as it is truly unsafe. Measuring BB speed only, someone could reach as high as 8 joules with your field as example (.69g at 500FPS)- entire countries often limit to 1 joule, and the highest I've seen in the US was 3.5 joules...
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Old 01-06-2020, 01:03 PM   #4
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They will most likely chrono you with your bbs, not 0.2 (otherwise it makes no sense). If your rifle has a joule creep it will shoot hotter with heavy bbs than it would result from simple FPS/weight calculation.
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Old 01-06-2020, 04:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
getting hit by a .2g BB at 500FPS will hurt, but getting hit by a bowling ball at 500FPS will turn you into pink mist
According to https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...cs/kinetic.php, a 16 pound bowling ball travelling at 500 FPS = 84,280.2 J.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicMarker View Post
There's no perfect solution to guarantee everyone on the field is playing at the desired power levels, so the conversation of how to best regulate players' power outputs can get pretty complicated, but simply measuring in joules is usually just as easy as measuring in FPS, and already does an infinitely better job at mitigating power level variation between players due to BB weight.

Again, I want to reiterate how it is quite literally just wrong to attempt to regulate power while only measuring BB speed. If a field does this, you should be very cautious, as it is truly unsafe. Measuring BB speed only, someone could reach as high as 8 joules with your field as example (.69g at 500FPS)- entire countries often limit to 1 joule, and the highest I've seen in the US was 3.5 joules...
I agree.. FPS is a completely illogical means to measure the output of an airsoft gun. I wish gun FPS was advertised instead as KE. Sure, everyone probably can remember that 400 FPS with .20g BBs is about 1.5j, but still. My field (and other NEASG fields) allow up to 1.858j from AEGS and 3.51j BASR (with 100' MED). So I know 450 FPS and 570 FPS (or so) would be under the max joules, respectively.

It's still a pain in the ass to look up. lol
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbear View Post
According to https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...cs/kinetic.php, a 16 pound bowling ball travelling at 500 FPS = 84,280.2 J.
Lol, quick Google says that's about four times the energy of a .50 BMG? :P


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It's still a pain in the ass to look up. lol
Well it can be - I know firsthand, my chrono doesn't calculate joules - but most chronos used for airsoft do calculate for you, so usually it's not actually more work for field admins checking players.
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Old 01-06-2020, 06:27 PM   #7
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Fun with chronos!

I have some .12s for some reason.. put one through my VSR for S&G.. then in contrast, one of my usual .45s.


When I switched the chrono to .45 weight, it didn't clear the previous entry, and gave me some otherworldy joules. lol


(Using the ACETECH AC5000 chrono. $55 at Amazon.)
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:45 PM   #8
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Where tf can you use 630 fps?! Lol
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:46 PM   #9
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Bruh a .45 ain't much faster lmao
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:26 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Sniperfitter View Post
Where tf can you use 630 fps?! Lol
Pretty much anywhere in the Northeast US.

So long as the kinetic energy doesn't exceed 3.51j.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperfitter View Post
Where tf can you use 630 fps?! Lol
600-650 [email protected] is normal for sniper rifles in Poland. DMRs are 500-600 depending on the field. Assault up to 450 (full auto with 30m MED). CQB 300 full auto, 350 single no MED.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:06 PM   #12
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Damn I didn't know that lol
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithski View Post
600-650 [email protected] is normal for sniper rifles in Poland. DMRs are 500-600 depending on the field. Assault up to 450 (full auto with 30m MED). CQB 300 full auto, 350 single no MED.
Jeez, I can just imagine the amount of joule creep going around...

What are the MEDs for snipers and DMRs?
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pu7z View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmithski View Post
600-650 [email protected] is normal for sniper rifles in Poland. DMRs are 500-600 depending on the field. Assault up to 450 (full auto with 30m MED). CQB 300 full auto, 350 single no MED.
Jeez, I can just imagine the amount of joule creep going around...

What are the MEDs for snipers and DMRs?
30m. Here’s the most common rule set
https://asgard.events/web/regulamin_...e_Rules_EN.pdf
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jsmithski View Post
30m. Here’s the most common rule set
https://asgard.events/web/regulamin_...e_Rules_EN.pdf
Yeaaah, that hurts hahaha.

I try to keep a self imposed MED of 50m when using my sniper at 3 - 3.5J, below that there's a risk of rupturing the skin.

I once shot a guy by accident at 20m, he did not like that. I was aiming for another guy at about 70m in a corridor of buildings, and the lucky subject passed running after the bb was already in the air. Got it to the side of the head, between the eye and the ear, no protection. It bled, of course.

Never had the chance to apologize to the guy, and felt bad for it.
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