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Old 02-04-2020, 02:41 AM   #1
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Has anyone tried the airsoft philosophers barrel?

Seems kinda expensive and want to make sure it’s worth it...
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:49 AM   #2
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There might be one person here that has, and I think they posted in the VSR forum about it.

Like the Full Thrust system, Flamingo buckings, insert flavor of the month here.... If any of them gave considerable improvements over the tried and true Maple Leaf set ups then we'd all be using them because word would have gotten out. I'm not saying they're any worse, but I AM saying they're not any better.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:06 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AccurateDMD View Post
There might be one person here that has, and I think they posted in the VSR forum about it.

Like the Full Thrust system, Flamingo buckings, insert flavor of the month here.... If any of them gave considerable improvements over the tried and true Maple Leaf set ups then we'd all be using them because word would have gotten out. I'm not saying they're any worse, but I AM saying they're not any better.
I don't know if I completely agree with you there. Mr-hop took a long time before it became popular, and same with the CJ barrels... That said, I've only seen a single review about them that said they "were performing very well," so, most likely, they will not make much of any difference at all, and it's pretty much a shot in the dark because they're almost entirely unreviewed...

Im almost cerain you would atleast get pdi/edgi/tnt/ml/lambda (lol this is the problem with no real tests) performance, but anything more is unlikely. Although, I wouldn't mind having someone try one out and tell us how it performed!
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:59 AM   #4
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So you don't completely agree, but you still agree ;)

Here's the thing - these rifles have limits due to the ammo. The ammo, assuming your rifle is well built and solid with everything shimmed, is the most inconsistent aspect of shooting these toys. Whether we're talking about how round the ammo is, or its weight, or the fact that it is round and has terrible flight characteristics past 150ft. The ammo is what sucks.

Regardless of brand of barrel, they're all gonna perform essentially the same. My testing indicates barrel window size and how it matches the bucking you've chosen is likely the major factor in barrel accuracy. Now the APhilosopher barrels really sell on that point. Their window size and buckings are proprietary and made for each other. That's why you'd buy one, the second reason is their "superior steel" - which I won't go into because its all marketing. Feel free to disagree.

Anyway, point to them at least for the window and bucking stuff. However, they've been out a decent amount of time and while results are "good"... just like with the full thrust system, no ones claiming increased effective or maximum range due to them. Even Nov has gone back to standard 6mm ammo with the SSG10 and is claiming it's superior to the SSG24 in every way (and we have to assume "every" includes Full Thrust).

The SSG10 looks to have a brass tightbore in a modified VSR10 chamber and an autobot bucking... It's literally the cheapest way to build the rifle... and it STILL performs better than an SSG24 according to him. The SSG24 did not perform poorly compared to the VSR10s and SRSs out there. Let that sink in.

In lay terms this means there is no significant difference between the barrels and any other well built system using a quality hopup and barrel group. The effective range will be 70-90m depending on power level, and the 'maximum' is gonna be around 100M (obviously I'm not referencing the Long Range Airsoft mortar style shooting here, people).

Any 'improvements' people claim will be for self assurance so they don't feel like they wasted their money on a more expensive product. No one is going to go out there and buy one of everything to test it because deep down, we all know there isn't enough difference to justify the trouble.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:08 AM   #5
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Agreed 100%, Mr. DMD. The barrel thing has been bothering me since I got into airsoft. Other than upping the velocity a bit is there any real gain there? Now we assume there is because usually the hop or something else gets upgraded at the same time.

To further this notion, on my latest AEG, I used the stock aluminum 6.08 barrel from a Combat Machine. Sure, I polished it, squared and cleaned up the window, and uber checked it for straightness, but nothing that you can't do in your home garage. Certainly not remachining it or anything. Well, I'm sure glad I didn't bother with a fancy barrel! The little aluminum rig is incredible! Wait, no...the barrel is essentially just a hose...the HOP is incredible.

No the rifle doesn't hit a quarter at 90m. None of them do (refer back to ammo). But, does it perform as well as any other AEG? Absolutely. No doubt about it. It's reliable, you can fire anything through it, and is rock solid. Barrel price? FREE.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:28 AM   #6
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I'm excited to see the airsoft philospher chamber when it comes out. The idea of a bucking, barrel and chamber, all made for each other to the highest tolerance (which you have to assume to be true given the price,) is an exciting one nonetheless. Supposedly, the AA chamber provides pressure too early, pressing down on the nozzle and not just the patch. Their new chamber will theoretically place the nub perfectly for their windows and buckings, which may lead to an improved effective range.
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Old 02-04-2020, 01:10 PM   #7
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Stalker is doing a similar thing with their Morpheus barrels and new SRS chamber. Full disclosure here: I use their panthera nub in my VSR and love it.

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out over time, but I doubt we're going to see major leaps here. Hope I'm wrong.
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Old 02-04-2020, 01:59 PM   #8
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I use any barrel now as long as it is clean and does not look like it has a bend in it.
Though I do tend to use Action Army barrels more because I can get them cheap and I prefer the 6.01mm just for the efficiency factor. But I would most likely use any brand as long as it was straight and a tighter diameter.
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:35 PM   #9
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I'd also like to mention here, that the Airsoft Philosopher barrels are not the first to have a proprietary window cut and bucking AND there are also other buckings out there like the Modify X range that encourage your own barrel window modification for "proper fit".

That OG award goes to Maple Leaf, as far as I know. Granted, their design still allows the use of other buckings/barrels (aka mix and match) without much detriment. Supposedly, the buckings and barrels were purpose made for each other and just happen to work with other brands (more so with later generations as they expanded the market to work with other platforms and barrels).

Funny enough I got worse results with the ML CJ compared to a steel 6.01 laylax tightbore of the same length with a narrower window.

Marketing. It's sneaky.
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Old 02-04-2020, 02:54 PM   #10
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I'm also talking chamber designed for the barrel
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Old 02-04-2020, 03:12 PM   #11
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I know. I mentioned that when I referenced the Stalker barrels and chamber.

Although... doesn't ML have a chamber designed for the VSR to use their barrels? And a chamber for the SRS... designed to use their barrels?

You by no means HAVE to use their barrels because they built everything for maximum compatibility and better sales... but one would think they'd put the work in so theirs at least don't work worse than what else is available out there.

Maybe I'm jaded. I left the sport for 15 years to come back to find the VSR was still one of the top rifles and the only thing that had changed was we now have a TDC CNC AA hop chamber, ML buckings, and weighted pistons are more popular. That's a good thing in one regard as it was cheap to dive back in but... Max range hadn't changed. 70-90m effective range had become easier to achieve but also hadn't changed. So when I look at these new products that look like the same stuff that's been done before in a different paint color I become extremely skeptical.
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Old Yesterday, 01:35 PM   #12
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The barrels are weird and the barrel window longer than that on the action army hopup. note that this does not significantly effect performance.
a better combo would be and edgi/tnt/crazyjet barrel and the mr/autobot bucking and a panther nub.
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Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM   #13
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One reason a longer patch may be beneficial is reduced stress on the bb, meaning because it doesn't need to be pressed so hard, it doesn't deform/scratch on the bottom of the barrel as much.
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Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodium View Post
One reason a longer patch may be beneficial is reduced stress on the bb, meaning because it doesn't need to be pressed so hard, it doesn't deform/scratch on the bottom of the barrel as much.
Though, at some point, the window is extending beyond the BB's seat position and doing nothing- and that doesn't take much distance given a BB size of 6mm.
I wonder about the extended window logic. I use EdGI/Autobot/Skeee and only need about a single turn of hop from zero in order to hop .48s...wouldn't want any less pressure than that personally.
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Old Yesterday, 08:44 PM   #15
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Funny you mentioned that about the skeees. Your hop not needing much more than a full turn is in part due to the skeees height. When I compared it to the Panthera the main difference between the two was the height. The Panthera took more hop to.. well, hop vs the skeee.

The other difference was the increased concavity of the panthera over the skeees which would be easily modified with some sandpaper wrapped around a rod.
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