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Old 04-30-2020, 09:49 AM   #1
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Weighted Piston Confusion

I'm very confused on the point of weighted pistons. I thought I had it down, believing that they give higher joules with heavier ammunition, but now I seem to be reading that that isn't even true. I keep hearing now that instead they just increase joule creep but lower fps across the board.

When I used an SAP, I did not even notice a reduction in sound compared to my SCW piston, just a reduction of fps and increased recoil.
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:14 AM   #2
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They can do both. This completely depends on your setup.
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:37 AM   #3
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Like said above the answer is "it depends". You can make a lot of things happen with a weighted set up but the variables are many.

Barrel length
Hop up type (VSR vs others)
Spring length
Spring strength
Airbrake?
Weight of piston
Weight of bb

I'm probably leaving some out...
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Old 04-30-2020, 12:24 PM   #4
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I had so much hype for a weighted piston so I tried it out. Didn’t see crazy joule creep and realized I needed to have the right variables. The PERFECT variables. After testing many times with many different barrels, springs, weights, etc...I finally had some decent results but they still weren’t THAT special. By that point I was tired of messing with it, so I stopped all of my testing lol. Even if you have insane creep like, hypothetically speaking; 500 fps with a .48 and 500 fps with a .20 without changing the hop (likely impossible) do you REALLY gain anything? You’d be able to system fuck by cheating the chrono which is a shady move. The field would actually have to chrono with .20s which most fields are switching to joules. Then on average I’d say typically within field limits you’d be allowed around 350fps with a .48, and extra 150fps would not gain you a ton of distance. Then you’re left with a heavy ass spring to pull too.

Idk man, you can dream big but in reality There aren’t that many benefits. Keep in mind that’s my opinion, I could clearly be missing the magical combo and just haven’t had the results claimed to be out there. But sometimes I find myself spending too much time working on my airsoft guns vs actually using them on the field.
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Old 04-30-2020, 02:29 PM   #5
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Personally I think the biggest advantage is easier cocking, so you can joulecreep and therefore use lighter spring to have same velocity as normal setups.

Last edited by Masinmees; 04-30-2020 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 04-30-2020, 03:01 PM   #6
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In my limited and poor experience, I found that I always got higher fps with .48s on my SCW piston than SAP, regardless of weight setting.
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masinmees View Post
Personally I think the biggest advantage is easier cocking, so you can joulecreep and therefore use lighter spring to have same velocity as normal setups.
Correct me if I’m wrong but with joule creep and a heavy piston, you have a stronger spring and heavier pull.

Joule creep is said to be using a heavier bb and getting more energy. I don’t consider that joule creep, I call that how shit works. Back when heavier bbs came out, everyone’s mind was blown away by the chrono outputs. Yes it is “joule creep” because you gain energy.

But I define joule creep as an intentional output that’s exaggerated compared to normal energy readings. You have higher joules, but you’re trying to bring the FPS NUMBERS CLOSER TOGETHER, between a light bb (.20g) and a heavy bb (.40+g) Because if you’re allowed 500fps with a .20, the higher heavy bb fps on the same system the better, in joule creep building terms.

Please correct me if I’m wrong and throw more input in, as I am no expert!
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:04 PM   #8
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Ok, let's go back to grade 10 physics and Newton's first law and ask yourself what we are trying to achieve using heavier bbs. Heavier objects will fly farther given the right energy..."inertia" but they need that energy transferred to them in the beginning...."impulse". To accomplish this, we add mass to the piston and it works like a pendulum or a golf club in transferring that energy to the bb. Heavier bbs require more energy to get started and they are conversely much harder to slow down in flight once they get moving...which is a good thing. Now some of you will say that the spring does this and it does for the most part but the springs we use dont have enough stored energy to do the job well on thier own as the bbs get heavier. In every rifle there is a sweet spot for providing just the right amount of energy to the bbs you want to run for your range expectations. It takes trial and error...and a lot if chrono testing to get it right.

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Old 04-30-2020, 05:22 PM   #9
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I guess I just don't see why there isn't an easy answer to this... I'd bet that finding that ideal weight is probably not that hard/likely follows some relatively simple rules consistent across all VSR's.

There's gotta at least be rules on each of the variables named above.
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Old 04-30-2020, 09:33 PM   #10
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On my personal build I find it to work.

Keep in mind, if I play a field that chronos with .2g then I set my hop up to .2g. I do NOT leave it set for .48g and then chrono. That's due to the power increase you see on VSR systems with overhopped bbs.

Anyway

I can run around 500-520 fps with .2g, and 400-420fps with .48g. The only setting I change is the hop up for the two weights. The large 20 fps variance is due to wherever I decide to set the hop on a particular day. Typically, for flat flight, I'll run at 400fps on .48g, but if I want to slightly overhop then it'll go up to 420. The hop up has a huge effect on power output for VSRs. I mean less than 1/8th turn on the AA hop will create that difference.
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Old 05-03-2020, 12:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masinmees View Post
Personally I think the biggest advantage is easier cocking, so you can joulecreep and therefore use lighter spring to have same velocity as normal setups.
nice opinion

Last edited by juanlien; 05-03-2020 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AccurateDMD View Post
On my personal build I find it to work.

Keep in mind, if I play a field that chronos with .2g then I set my hop up to .2g. I do NOT leave it set for .48g and then chrono. That's due to the power increase you see on VSR systems with overhopped bbs.

Anyway

I can run around 500-520 fps with .2g, and 400-420fps with .48g. The only setting I change is the hop up for the two weights. The large 20 fps variance is due to wherever I decide to set the hop on a particular day. Typically, for flat flight, I'll run at 400fps on .48g, but if I want to slightly overhop then it'll go up to 420. The hop up has a huge effect on power output for VSRs. I mean less than 1/8th turn on the AA hop will create that difference.
How!? I run 599 with. 2 and 370 with. 48
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:53 PM   #13
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599 with a .2 seems a bit high for a rifle shooting 370 with .48s. My local field limit is 370 with a .48 and if I drop a .2 in, it will be 500-550. What are your hop settings?
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:33 PM   #14
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A rifle with no hop vs with proper .48 hop can literally go up by like 100fps sometimes, depending on the setup.
kazuchan and AccurateDMD like this.
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Old 05-07-2020, 08:06 AM   #15
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Exactly. If I leave my hop alone and chrono .2g with .48g settings it'll be 575+ fps.
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