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Old 05-15-2020, 09:17 PM   #1
Myzur   Myzur is offline
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High Altitude Range Surprise

So last weekend we headed up to some private property to test out some upgrades we put into the new guns and test to see if it needed anything more. Our normal field we play at is at roughly 5400 feet (or for you normal people 1.65km) and the property we went to was roughly 11000 feet (3.35km for smart folks in the room) and we noticed something crazy happen. With a laser range finder my SRS hit a shot at 563 feet (170m). I knew bbs would hang in the air a bit longer due to thinner air providing less air resistance but the actual numbers kind of blew my mind. Is anyone else living at high altitudes able to at least test against my numbers and see if what I had was just a hidden variable I missed somewhere or if higher altitudes means better ranges overall for sniping?
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Old 05-16-2020, 12:06 AM   #2
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I have not done the testing myself but other people have said that they have got longer shots at higher altitudes. Though 170m's is to the point of really, really amazing. You would need to measure the distance maybe with google earth or with a tape measure to confirm it. (sometimes range finders can play up outside at those ranges). Was the shot done with over hop? Was it aiming upwards? What bb weight and what energy rate is the rifle?
So far, within a game the longest confirmed in game shot (so not over hopped), was about 150 meters. This was done with a 0.66gm bb (Can't remember the energy rate).
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Old 05-16-2020, 09:42 PM   #3
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Kinda glad to see you in here as you would probably be the best one to bounce this off of to see what is going on because the numbers make absolutely no sense. I wanted to test it on google maps to get a distance but there are no viable landmarks where we were shooting at to be certain. The range finder I have learned is not a laser range finder but an optic range finder used for real steel rifles.

In total we shot 4 guns with a super wide array of results. They were the SSG24 with the short barrel, an SRS Sport with the 20 inch barrel, an Echo1 ER25K, and a Classic Army M110.

I'll start with worst performance and work my way up.

The SSG24 was all stock parts except the 325mm inner barrel, also coming from the Novritsch site, and firing 2.93J. We fired .43s out of this and hit a dismal 280 feet with hop up fully maxed. Barely was able to lift the bb to keep the trajectory straight to that point. Kind of surprised to be honest given the glowing reviews everyone gives the stock performance of the gun.

Next was the Classic Army M110. It has an all stock gearbox and motor, with a Maxx Pro hop up unit with the R Hop arm installed and a 610mm Mad Bull 6.01 tbb with my own R Hop patch installed and a Modify flat hop bucking shooting at 1.92J. Full hop up we were able to overhop .32s just barely out to a range of 321 feet.

Next was the Echo1 ER25k. All stock gearbox and motor, with a Maxx Pro hop up unit with the R hop arm installed and a 393mm Prometheus 6.01 tbb with my own R Hop patch installed and a Prometheus flat hop bucking shooting 1.89J. This thing could easily overhop the .32s we were firing and kinda made me wish I had something heavier, but sadly all we had to step up from there was the sniper ammo and I'm not sure it would have done the trick. This was firing out to 377 feet with that overhop sending the bbs skyward. On an accurate scale without massively overhopping I got to 348 feet accurately.

This was the big one. The Silverback SRS Sport 20 inch, with Fast Hop chamber using the Silverback Curved nub, Silverback 70* bucking, and stock barrel. I have the VMP set to 64.8g with no air break and it fires 2.78J with perfect air seal. This was where we hit the longshot. Only used the .43g bbs we had and the only reason we know we hit the target was because I was the target. We had it massively overhopped and even then some went over my head but we only counted the 4 that hit me at those extreme ranges.

Conditions were about 55F (12.7C) and a bit of a crosswind, no way to measure how fast but when it would blow it could send the bb off target easily 30 feet at extreme ranges so shots were timed without wind if we could. There was maybe a difference of 1 foot between the elevation from beginning to end so no downward angle on any of the shots, we wanted the best representation possible of the bb flight.

I cant think of anything else that would have affected the bb flight as much as it did. I want to go up and test again and bring some camera equipment so we can get an even better account of everything as proof. I'm still amazed at the results given.
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Old 05-17-2020, 03:42 PM   #4
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There is an issue obviously with the SSG24. It should be over hopping 0.43gm bb's.


Really you need to get proper measurements of the range.
Also, when testing you want the bb to be shooting straight with only the slightest over hop. At normal altitude I site my 3.3j rifle in at about 65-70 meters. I can then elevate it to longer ranges. All the way up to about 90-95 meters max (Elevation at about 1.5-2m). When elevating, you should only be at about 1.5-2 meters max aiming above the target. Otherwise you are just using the rifle as a mortar and shooting and hoping to hit the target. I can aim my rifle like a mortar to hit targets out to very long ranges. I have a shed that is about 150 meters away that I can hit pretty easily but I could shoot further (I just don't have a target at a longer distance to test)
Though your results do look good and altitude most definitely is helping (Depending on the accuracy of the range)
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:44 AM   #5
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There is something to the elevation thing, although not sure exactly how much...I never really paid that much attention to it. Where I build and test is 2800ft. Where we play is 4200-5000 ft and it's always slightly better...same ammo, same rifles.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:43 PM   #6
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Altitude and the related factors of air density and humidity are huge for airsoft range IMO.

My usual playing area was an average altitude of 8,000' with very little humidity. A national event I attended was 38' with close to 100% humidity. My effective AEG range was cut by about a third.
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Old 05-25-2020, 02:09 AM   #7
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Honestly that SSG has been nothing but a lemon since day 1. I think I have put more work into that than I did building my SRS. It is retired now though, he got himself an SRS after seeing mine so I will have two comparisons the next time.

We are planning on heading up there to test again this upcoming weekend. We are going to try to set up the test to be as accurate as possible so that results can be repeated by anyone. At the current moment we do not have camera equipment good enough but I will get what video I can of the tests so we can have something to reference just in case others want to try and replicate this.

I am testing this in Colorado, USA so we are bone dry year round so we have 0 humidity to mess with bb flight, which is awesome so it's kind of as close to best conditions as you can get without doing a control test indoors. We are going for the best possible conditions so I can at least spread sheet some data for everyone.
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Old 05-25-2020, 05:42 AM   #8
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See if you can measure it. And see if you can do it without over hopping
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myzur View Post
Kinda glad to see you in here as you would probably be the best one to bounce this off of to see what is going on because the numbers make absolutely no sense. I wanted to test it on google maps to get a distance but there are no viable landmarks where we were shooting at to be certain. The range finder I have learned is not a laser range finder but an optic range finder used for real steel rifles.

In total we shot 4 guns with a super wide array of results. They were the SSG24 with the short barrel, an SRS Sport with the 20 inch barrel, an Echo1 ER25K, and a Classic Army M110.

I'll start with worst performance and work my way up.

The SSG24 was all stock parts except the 325mm inner barrel, also coming from the Novritsch site, and firing 2.93J. We fired .43s out of this and hit a dismal 280 feet with hop up fully maxed. Barely was able to lift the bb to keep the trajectory straight to that point. Kind of surprised to be honest given the glowing reviews everyone gives the stock performance of the gun.

Next was the Classic Army M110. It has an all stock gearbox and motor, with a Maxx Pro hop up unit with the R Hop arm installed and a 610mm Mad Bull 6.01 tbb with my own R Hop patch installed and a Modify flat hop bucking shooting at 1.92J. Full hop up we were able to overhop .32s just barely out to a range of 321 feet.

Next was the Echo1 ER25k. All stock gearbox and motor, with a Maxx Pro hop up unit with the R hop arm installed and a 393mm Prometheus 6.01 tbb with my own R Hop patch installed and a Prometheus flat hop bucking shooting 1.89J. This thing could easily overhop the .32s we were firing and kinda made me wish I had something heavier, but sadly all we had to step up from there was the sniper ammo and I'm not sure it would have done the trick. This was firing out to 377 feet with that overhop sending the bbs skyward. On an accurate scale without massively overhopping I got to 348 feet accurately.

This was the big one. The Silverback SRS Sport 20 inch, with Fast Hop chamber using the Silverback Curved nub, Silverback 70* bucking, and stock barrel. I have the VMP set to 64.8g with no air break and it fires 2.78J with perfect air seal. This was where we hit the longshot. Only used the .43g bbs we had and the only reason we know we hit the target was because I was the target. We had it massively overhopped and even then some went over my head but we only counted the 4 that hit me at those extreme ranges.

Conditions were about 55F (12.7C) and a bit of a crosswind, no way to measure how fast but when it would blow it could send the bb off target easily 30 feet at extreme ranges so shots were timed without wind if we could. There was maybe a difference of 1 foot between the elevation from beginning to end so no downward angle on any of the shots, we wanted the best representation possible of the bb flight.

I cant think of anything else that would have affected the bb flight as much as it did. I want to go up and test again and bring some camera equipment so we can get an even better account of everything as proof. I'm still amazed at the results given.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:00 PM   #10
 
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nice opinion
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:18 PM   #11
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It's a bot. Ban it
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:40 PM   #12
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I played once at 2.500 meters above sea level and was greatly surprised by the added range. Didn't had a rangefinder or any clear reference I could later measure though, and I know measuring distance on the mountains can get really tricky, but it seem like 50% added range when compared to sea level.

Your 170m at 3000 meters above sea level sounds believable to me considering my previous experience.

Another interesting find was that AEGs started to fail and behave weird there, the reduced pressure (10 PSI at 2500 meters, as compared to the 14.7 at sea level) meant they had trouble getting decent compression on their tiny cylinders, while GBBRs worked like a charm.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:36 AM   #13
Myzur   Myzur is offline
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Originally Posted by Dimitri MdP View Post
I played once at 2.500 meters above sea level and was greatly surprised by the added range. Didn't had a rangefinder or any clear reference I could later measure though, and I know measuring distance on the mountains can get really tricky, but it seem like 50% added range when compared to sea level.

Your 170m at 3000 meters above sea level sounds believable to me considering my previous experience.

Another interesting find was that AEGs started to fail and behave weird there, the reduced pressure (10 PSI at 2500 meters, as compared to the 14.7 at sea level) meant they had trouble getting decent compression on their tiny cylinders, while GBBRs worked like a charm.
Funny thing is the two AEGs have extended cylinders, they are bigger than the regular M4 counterparts. I didnt think about testing it with a chrono though, I will bring it and see what happens to the muzzle velocity at that altitude then.

I would love to test a GBBR but sadly i do not have any. Closest i have are GBB pistols, which also performed amazing at that altitude but we were only firing .25s through that, so maybe i will add the pistols to my next set of tests.
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Old 05-30-2020, 12:16 PM   #14
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I'm curious as to where it is you play? My home field in Colorado is around 5900ft, and there's another field up in the mountains that's at 8,500ft.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Shaggy Sniper View Post
I'm curious as to where it is you play? My home field in Colorado is around 5900ft, and there's another field up in the mountains that's at 8,500ft.
I actually play at Flat Acres Farm. I take it you play at Go Airheads?

We are headed up to private property in Fairplay to do all of these tests.
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