The good old "wat am bset gnu" question.

Skara · 06-23-2020, 03:55 PM

Evening guys, girls and the often forgotten, but not by me, Romanian AK47s.
I'm getting bored of the Striker, managed to get it to shoot pretty consistently on .3g+ at 1 Joule, but the more time I spend tweaking it, the more I realize it's just a bad platform (as with all Ares guns really).
It's heavy, chunky, there is no way to render the pull smooth, mags are huge, expensive and hard to store. The only redeeming thing is the TDC.. Zero upgrades available too.

So here I am, looking for a good replacement.
The platform will be a VSR, because it's lightweight and there are a gazillion upgrades available for every budget. The SRS is out of my league and overkill for a 1J build.

The "requirements" for this build are the ability to internally suppress the gun (running a 300mm inner inside a 430mm outer) and a somewhat decent trigger/sears, possibly 90° from the factory. It's going to run @0.99J on the heaviest weight I can find (so 0.36g to 0.4)

I have eyed two candidates:
-Cyma VSR (Can't remember the name, cm700?)
-Action Army T-11

The first comes in at roughly €100 shipped and gives me a great margin for upgrades (trigger, piston and hop chamber),
The AA is 210ish posted and comes from the factory with a 90° trigger/piston.

Can't find anything on the T11 though, so I have no idea if it's decent or just a shiny turd 😞

If you guys could share some of your wisdom with me, I'd appreciate it.

(There is also a third option, a mk23 in a carbine kit, but let's keep it out for now as it's going to be a separate project as I'm trying to design my own)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that some parts will be taken from the striker, namely the AA 6.03x300mm steel inner and the hop rubber (ML MR-Hop 50°)

SiliconeSword · 06-23-2020, 05:15 PM

The CM701 is a rock.
I used to have one and the stock and upper assembly were extremely solid compared to my Marui G-spec.
The stock also had this wonderful bumpy texture that I absolutely loved.
God I wish I had not tried to copy that bullpup VSR on Nov tactical......
The T10 on the other hand looks nice but I hear it is pretty heavy due to that stock.
I can't get the T10 easily where I live due to a stupid copyright or something so I have never actually held one.
The T11 looks sorta ugly to me but is probably lightweight and sturdy and a very good option.
Since you are only using 1J you would just need to replace the barrel, bucking, chamber, and nub on the T11.
The CM701 on the other hand would need a whole new cylinder assembly, trigger, and the parts from earlier so it would definitely be more expensive.
I suppose you should just get whichever one looks the coolest as they should all perform the same when upgraded.

BlackDogAirsoft · 06-23-2020, 05:38 PM

Either the Cyma 701 or the Bar 10. The Tm VSR10 is expensive and also, you cannot change the cylinder internals on the stock cylinder without drilling out the pin that holds it in (a massive pain). I would suggest the AA T11. It it light and already has many good parts. All I would do on that one is switch to a maple leaf bucking and an m150 spring.

SiliconeSword · 06-23-2020, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackDogAirsoft

All I would do on that one is switch to a maple leaf bucking and an m150 spring.

May as well do the barrel and chamber while you are at it.....
This guy is also in Italy so he may just need a tighter barrel and spring spacers to get his power.

BlackDogAirsoft · 06-23-2020, 08:26 PM

The barrel is an action army tightbore already, I think. The chamber is not the red one but of high quality nevertheless.
Edit: Forgot the Classic Army M24 LTR. 90 degree trigger from the factory which is very solid.
Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Skara · 06-24-2020, 05:25 AM

Okay, let's do some math:

If I go for the Cyka VSR:
base gun: €110 to 130 depending on where I can find it in stock
90° trigger and piston: €100 at least for the trigger, 40 to 60 for the piston (budget S-Trigger and airbraked SCW piston)
New cylinder: between €60 (AA) up to 120, 130 for the PDI/Laylax ones
AA Hop chamber: €60 if I can find it in stock somewhere.
Add a tenner for a spring (M90 or 100 depending on how air tight the whole system is)
Rough total is: €400

If I go with the T-11:
base gun: €210/220 posted from France
SCW airbraked piston: €60 (40 for the piston and I guess 20 postage)
Rough total is: €280

In both cases I'll have to buy/make some barrel spacers to align the 300mm inner with the muzzle hole and stuff the whole outer with sound dampening materials (foam, scotch-brite, whatever I need)

From what I have seen online, the stock AA plastic piston can deal with a M150, so I reckon it's going to last a while on 1J, or at least enough time for me to order the new piston (doesn't have to be a SCW, could be a WASP as well).

The stock AA chamber seems to be decent and has a concave tensioner integrated in the arm (integrated tensioners are not my cup of tea but I can make it work)

The T11 seems to be the better deal, but please tell me if I'm missing anything!!

BlackDogAirsoft · 06-24-2020, 05:51 AM

What about the ssg10?
The classic army m24 LTR is also a good option but will be more expensive than the t11 so you can discount that.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Skara · 06-24-2020, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackDogAirsoft

What about the ssg10?

Nah, I don't want to risk spending €300 on a turd that'll be delivered in the next Ice Age.

TenshouYoku · 06-24-2020, 08:20 AM

The T11 comes with a barrel spacer itself (albeit it's just a piece of cheap molded plastic).

But in any case with just a meager 1J you probably can just buy a Marui and call it a day. The push resistance will be managable, and accuracy is great like any typical Marui guns.

BTW…… how is the Striker "zero upgrade"? Ares Amoeba itself aside, Action Army pumps upgrades for it as well. The mags should also be like 13 USD a pop and is better than the VSR in handling.

Skara · 06-24-2020, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenshouYoku

The T11 comes with a barrel spacer itself (albeit it's just a piece of cheap molded plastic).

Saw that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenshouYoku

But in any case with just a meager 1J you probably can just buy a Marui and call it a day. The push resistance will be managable, and accuracy is great like any typical Marui guns.

Yes and no. While it's true that a TM is "unbeatable" at 1J, it still has 45° sears, a cylinder that's a bitch to open and overall it's super flimsy.
I'd rather keep the striker than buying a TM VSR. At least it's more solid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenshouYoku

BTW…… how is the Striker "zero upgrade"? Ares Amoeba itself aside, Action Army pumps upgrades for it as well. The mags should also be like 13 USD a pop and is better than the VSR in handling.

You have an EdGi €500 cylinder in yours, I'm not buying a €500 cylinder for a bad platform.
AA only puts out a handful of parts (hop wheel, chamber and silencer adapter, one cylinder, that's it), most of the "upgrades" are cosmetic gimmicks that serve no purpose other than making the rifle heavier.

Bolt pull is awful, despite having polished and lubed both the external surface of the cylinder and the awful plastic sleeve (which, to my knowledge, has no aftermarket upgrades), it feels like pulling a M150 when in reality there is a cut down M100 inside. Can't imagine what it feels like when pulling an actual M150, do people cock it like a medieval crossbow?
The locking pin is bad, mine's chewed up pretty bad, tested with a same diametre steel bar but it's still bad. Design flaw most likely.

the nozzle chews through hop rubbers (replaced the 2nd rubber in 6 months the other day), the new hop rubber is 5 (yes, FIVE) shots old and is already slightly damaged at the lips.

despite having a thick rubber dampener on the cylinder head, an o-ring glued to the piston head, all the cavities packed with cotton wool and foam and a suppressor filled with scotch-brite,various densities foam rings and other stuff, it's still as loud as it was when I took it out of the box.

I've had the rifle since it first came out and the more I look at it, the more I convince myself I made a terrible mistake.

Sodium · 06-24-2020, 09:03 AM

Kicking mustang just did a neat 1j VSR build you may want to check out.

Skara · 06-24-2020, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodium

Kicking mustang just did a neat 1j VSR build you may want to check out.

Do you have a link?

The only thing I could find was a bog standard TM G-Spec..

BlackDogAirsoft · 06-24-2020, 09:37 AM

Also check out airsoft sniper mechanic's 1 joule build.
https://www.snipermechanics.com/vsr1...but-effective/

TenshouYoku · 06-24-2020, 10:20 AM

The majority of the 45 degree bad issues are massively exacerbated by the fact that people tend to play at like what, 500fps and fling super heavy BBs. If you are playing with 1J and 0.3g that wouldn't be a serious issue.

While that the Striker of mine is using an EDGI cylinder, I also have an another using the regular volume steel cylinder (bought NEMO just for the memes and I really wish I didn't at that time, because the spring compatibility issue is a bitch and Ares made one that is infinitely cheaper later on). Pull was initially heavy but isn't a big issue, and mine has been using the same buckings since it was completed and swapped only for things like testing different buckings - no premature wear or anything even with regular cylinder heads.

You also made it as if a lack of upgrade variances is bad when there is nothing inherently good about having many options when incompatibility issues are a thing across brands, and the fact that you are going to use about the same thing anyway (AA chamber for instance, who uses anything other than AA for VSRs anyways?). Just like nobody complained about the lack of brand options of SRS.

Other than the godawful body pin made of cheese - god just why is it so bad - it hasn't exactly been worse or better than the VSR/T10 I am using. (It is much improved using the one piece steel pin of Edgi - a hex key won't do because the design helps providing the pivot it needed to stay immobile)

Skara · 06-24-2020, 11:24 AM

Could be me being fed up with the issues I'm having with it.

to me it looks like a bad platform.
I have yet to see a spring powered striker that doesn't sound like a bag of nails when being cocked, or that is quiet enough without being HPA powered.
It's also disappointing to pretend there's a M150 in the cylinder when there's actually a cut down M100.

I'd like something different, a smooth, light pull, with a low sound report and that doesn't fatigue me

Hence the thread on a VSR base.

06-23-2020, 03:55 PM	#1
Skara Jr. Sniper Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: La Spezia, Italy Posts: 260	Evening guys, girls and the often forgotten, but not by me, Romanian AK47s. I'm getting bored of the Striker, managed to get it to shoot pretty consistently on .3g+ at 1 Joule, but the more time I spend tweaking it, the more I realize it's just a bad platform (as with all Ares guns really). It's heavy, chunky, there is no way to render the pull smooth, mags are huge, expensive and hard to store. The only redeeming thing is the TDC.. Zero upgrades available too. So here I am, looking for a good replacement. The platform will be a VSR, because it's lightweight and there are a gazillion upgrades available for every budget. The SRS is out of my league and overkill for a 1J build. The "requirements" for this build are the ability to internally suppress the gun (running a 300mm inner inside a 430mm outer) and a somewhat decent trigger/sears, possibly 90° from the factory. It's going to run @0.99J on the heaviest weight I can find (so 0.36g to 0.4) I have eyed two candidates: -Cyma VSR (Can't remember the name, cm700?) -Action Army T-11 The first comes in at roughly €100 shipped and gives me a great margin for upgrades (trigger, piston and hop chamber), The AA is 210ish posted and comes from the factory with a 90° trigger/piston. Can't find anything on the T11 though, so I have no idea if it's decent or just a shiny turd 😞 If you guys could share some of your wisdom with me, I'd appreciate it. (There is also a third option, a mk23 in a carbine kit, but let's keep it out for now as it's going to be a separate project as I'm trying to design my own) EDIT: I forgot to mention that some parts will be taken from the striker, namely the AA 6.03x300mm steel inner and the hop rubber (ML MR-Hop 50°) SiliconeSword and BlackDogAirsoft like this. __________________ Me bolty: -Action Army T-11 -SCW Piston with custom airbrake -ML Cylinder Head -ASP bearing spring guide -FPS M100 spring -GunSmithy TDC -AA 6.03x300 steel inner -ML MR-Hop 50° -Internal suppression -VisionKing 1.25-5x26 Me secondaries: -Mk23 (ssx gen 1) -Action Army AAP01 (ML Decepticon 50°) Last edited by Skara; 06-24-2020 at 02:18 AM. Reason: Added a tiny bit more info.

06-23-2020, 05:15 PM	#2
SiliconeSword Experienced Sniper Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: The Estate Of Head Commander Sir S. Sword Posts: 1,029	The CM701 is a rock. I used to have one and the stock and upper assembly were extremely solid compared to my Marui G-spec. The stock also had this wonderful bumpy texture that I absolutely loved. God I wish I had not tried to copy that bullpup VSR on Nov tactical...... The T10 on the other hand looks nice but I hear it is pretty heavy due to that stock. I can't get the T10 easily where I live due to a stupid copyright or something so I have never actually held one. The T11 looks sorta ugly to me but is probably lightweight and sturdy and a very good option. Since you are only using 1J you would just need to replace the barrel, bucking, chamber, and nub on the T11. The CM701 on the other hand would need a whole new cylinder assembly, trigger, and the parts from earlier so it would definitely be more expensive. I suppose you should just get whichever one looks the coolest as they should all perform the same when upgraded. __________________ .----.__ / c ^ _`; \| .--' \ ( / -.\ / . \ / \ \| ; `-. `. \| /`'.`. \| \| \ \ \| __\| `' ; / \ ,' \| (_`'---._ /--, `'---._`'---..__ `''''--, ) _.-'`,` ```` This is a little otter. Copy / paste it into your signature to help it dominate the world https://www.instagram.com/silicone_sword/

06-23-2020, 05:38 PM	#3
BlackDogAirsoft Advanced Sniper Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Earth Posts: 713	Either the Cyma 701 or the Bar 10. The Tm VSR10 is expensive and also, you cannot change the cylinder internals on the stock cylinder without drilling out the pin that holds it in (a massive pain). I would suggest the AA T11. It it light and already has many good parts. All I would do on that one is switch to a maple leaf bucking and an m150 spring. __________________ Hidden by the leaves... ╱▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕╲▕╲┈┈┈ ▏▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕▏▔▔╲┈┈ ▏╲┈┈┈┈┈┈╱┈▔┈▔╲┈ ╲▏▔▔▔▔▔▔╯╯╰┳━━▀ ┈▏╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╱┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┏┳┳━━━┫┣┳┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈ ┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈ This is a fox thing. Copy / paste it into your signature to help it dominate the world. This is my rifle... There are many like it... But this one is by far the worst...

06-23-2020, 08:26 PM	#5
BlackDogAirsoft Advanced Sniper Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Earth Posts: 713	The barrel is an action army tightbore already, I think. The chamber is not the red one but of high quality nevertheless. Edit: Forgot the Classic Army M24 LTR. 90 degree trigger from the factory which is very solid. Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk SiliconeSword likes this. __________________ Hidden by the leaves... ╱▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕╲▕╲┈┈┈ ▏▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕▏▔▔╲┈┈ ▏╲┈┈┈┈┈┈╱┈▔┈▔╲┈ ╲▏▔▔▔▔▔▔╯╯╰┳━━▀ ┈▏╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╱┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┏┳┳━━━┫┣┳┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈ ┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈ This is a fox thing. Copy / paste it into your signature to help it dominate the world. This is my rifle... There are many like it... But this one is by far the worst... Last edited by BlackDogAirsoft; 06-24-2020 at 04:52 AM.

06-24-2020, 05:25 AM	#6
Skara Jr. Sniper Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: La Spezia, Italy Posts: 260	Okay, let's do some math: If I go for the Cyka VSR: base gun: €110 to 130 depending on where I can find it in stock 90° trigger and piston: €100 at least for the trigger, 40 to 60 for the piston (budget S-Trigger and airbraked SCW piston) New cylinder: between €60 (AA) up to 120, 130 for the PDI/Laylax ones AA Hop chamber: €60 if I can find it in stock somewhere. Add a tenner for a spring (M90 or 100 depending on how air tight the whole system is) Rough total is: €400 If I go with the T-11: base gun: €210/220 posted from France SCW airbraked piston: €60 (40 for the piston and I guess 20 postage) Rough total is: €280 In both cases I'll have to buy/make some barrel spacers to align the 300mm inner with the muzzle hole and stuff the whole outer with sound dampening materials (foam, scotch-brite, whatever I need) From what I have seen online, the stock AA plastic piston can deal with a M150, so I reckon it's going to last a while on 1J, or at least enough time for me to order the new piston (doesn't have to be a SCW, could be a WASP as well). The stock AA chamber seems to be decent and has a concave tensioner integrated in the arm (integrated tensioners are not my cup of tea but I can make it work) The T11 seems to be the better deal, but please tell me if I'm missing anything!! __________________ Me bolty: -Action Army T-11 -SCW Piston with custom airbrake -ML Cylinder Head -ASP bearing spring guide -FPS M100 spring -GunSmithy TDC -AA 6.03x300 steel inner -ML MR-Hop 50° -Internal suppression -VisionKing 1.25-5x26 Me secondaries: -Mk23 (ssx gen 1) -Action Army AAP01 (ML Decepticon 50°)

06-24-2020, 05:51 AM	#7
BlackDogAirsoft Advanced Sniper Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Earth Posts: 713	What about the ssg10? The classic army m24 LTR is also a good option but will be more expensive than the t11 so you can discount that. Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk __________________ Hidden by the leaves... ╱▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕╲▕╲┈┈┈ ▏▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕▏▔▔╲┈┈ ▏╲┈┈┈┈┈┈╱┈▔┈▔╲┈ ╲▏▔▔▔▔▔▔╯╯╰┳━━▀ ┈▏╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╱┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┏┳┳━━━┫┣┳┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈ ┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈ This is a fox thing. Copy / paste it into your signature to help it dominate the world. This is my rifle... There are many like it... But this one is by far the worst...

06-24-2020, 08:20 AM	#9
TenshouYoku Jr. Sniper Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 493	The T11 comes with a barrel spacer itself (albeit it's just a piece of cheap molded plastic). But in any case with just a meager 1J you probably can just buy a Marui and call it a day. The push resistance will be managable, and accuracy is great like any typical Marui guns. BTW…… how is the Striker "zero upgrade"? Ares Amoeba itself aside, Action Army pumps upgrades for it as well. The mags should also be like 13 USD a pop and is better than the VSR in handling. __________________ My loadout: -Main: Novritsch SSG24 Customed - Inner Barrel: PDI 6.01mm 485mm - Bucking: PDI W-hold 50 Degrees - Spring: Modify M130 for APS-2/M24 - Cylinder: PDI Precision cylinder for SW M24 - Chamber: PDI SW M24 chamber - Spring Guide: Modify stainless steel guide for APS-2 - Piston: PDI HD Piston for APS-2 - Scope: Discovery 3-12*42 -Sub: Army Armament G18c - Inner Barrel: Nineball 6.00mm 97mm - Bucking: Maple Leaf Autobot 60 degrees

06-24-2020, 09:03 AM	#11
Sodium Advanced Sniper Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: New York Posts: 578	Kicking mustang just did a neat 1j VSR build you may want to check out. __________________ Some people are like slinkies, not really good for much but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs

06-24-2020, 09:37 AM	#13
BlackDogAirsoft Advanced Sniper Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Earth Posts: 713	Also check out airsoft sniper mechanic's 1 joule build. https://www.snipermechanics.com/vsr1...but-effective/ __________________ Hidden by the leaves... ╱▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕╲▕╲┈┈┈ ▏▏┈┈┈┈┈┈▕▏▔▔╲┈┈ ▏╲┈┈┈┈┈┈╱┈▔┈▔╲┈ ╲▏▔▔▔▔▔▔╯╯╰┳━━▀ ┈▏╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╯╱┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┏┳┳━━━┫┣┳┃┈┈┈ ┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈┃┃┃┃┈┈┈ ┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈┗┛┗┛┈┈┈ This is a fox thing. Copy / paste it into your signature to help it dominate the world. This is my rifle... There are many like it... But this one is by far the worst... Last edited by BlackDogAirsoft; 06-24-2020 at 09:40 AM.

06-24-2020, 10:20 AM	#14
TenshouYoku Jr. Sniper Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 493	The majority of the 45 degree bad issues are massively exacerbated by the fact that people tend to play at like what, 500fps and fling super heavy BBs. If you are playing with 1J and 0.3g that wouldn't be a serious issue. While that the Striker of mine is using an EDGI cylinder, I also have an another using the regular volume steel cylinder (bought NEMO just for the memes and I really wish I didn't at that time, because the spring compatibility issue is a bitch and Ares made one that is infinitely cheaper later on). Pull was initially heavy but isn't a big issue, and mine has been using the same buckings since it was completed and swapped only for things like testing different buckings - no premature wear or anything even with regular cylinder heads. You also made it as if a lack of upgrade variances is bad when there is nothing inherently good about having many options when incompatibility issues are a thing across brands, and the fact that you are going to use about the same thing anyway (AA chamber for instance, who uses anything other than AA for VSRs anyways?). Just like nobody complained about the lack of brand options of SRS. Other than the godawful body pin made of cheese - god just why is it so bad - it hasn't exactly been worse or better than the VSR/T10 I am using. (It is much improved using the one piece steel pin of Edgi - a hex key won't do because the design helps providing the pivot it needed to stay immobile) Zero Roaster and Jbrinker1 like this. __________________ My loadout: -Main: Novritsch SSG24 Customed - Inner Barrel: PDI 6.01mm 485mm - Bucking: PDI W-hold 50 Degrees - Spring: Modify M130 for APS-2/M24 - Cylinder: PDI Precision cylinder for SW M24 - Chamber: PDI SW M24 chamber - Spring Guide: Modify stainless steel guide for APS-2 - Piston: PDI HD Piston for APS-2 - Scope: Discovery 3-1242 -Sub: Army Armament G18c - Inner Barrel: Nineball 6.00mm 97mm - Bucking: Maple Leaf Autobot 60 degrees Last edited by TenshouYoku; 06-24-2020 at 10:52 AM.*

06-24-2020, 11:24 AM	#15
Skara Jr. Sniper Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: La Spezia, Italy Posts: 260	Could be me being fed up with the issues I'm having with it. to me it looks like a bad platform. I have yet to see a spring powered striker that doesn't sound like a bag of nails when being cocked, or that is quiet enough without being HPA powered. It's also disappointing to pretend there's a M150 in the cylinder when there's actually a cut down M100. I'd like something different, a smooth, light pull, with a low sound report and that doesn't fatigue me Hence the thread on a VSR base. __________________ Me bolty: -Action Army T-11 -SCW Piston with custom airbrake -ML Cylinder Head -ASP bearing spring guide -FPS M100 spring -GunSmithy TDC -AA 6.03x300 steel inner -ML MR-Hop 50° -Internal suppression -VisionKing 1.25-5x26 Me secondaries: -Mk23 (ssx gen 1) -Action Army AAP01 (ML Decepticon 50°)

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