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Old 09-14-2019, 06:41 PM   #31
 
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I would be greatly interested in a tutorial. Especially a well documented one that covers tuning. Most of the "tutorials" I have read and seen are some hot garbage that don't cover shit.
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Plazmaburn View Post
Most of the "tutorials" I have read and seen are some hot garbage that don't cover shit.
That's exactly the problem with R-hop. 1tonne and I have been compraing normal buckings vs R-hop. His guns are normal bucking while I'm R-hopping. Even after alot of tuning we still get similar results.

So I'm trying to find out, excalty what am I not tuning right? because what I'm reading says if I tune it right I'll out shoot him every time.

Something that documents the process of tuning an r-hop well would be great.
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Old 09-15-2019, 04:01 AM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by SHEED View Post
That's exactly the problem with R-hop. 1tonne and I have been compraing normal buckings vs R-hop. His guns are normal bucking while I'm R-hopping. Even after alot of tuning we still get similar results.

So I'm trying to find out, excalty what am I not tuning right? because what I'm reading says if I tune it right I'll out shoot him every time.

Something that documents the process of tuning an r-hop well would be great.
If you have sifted or been around long enough, most people will know I am not the biggest fan of Rhops. I have yet to see a "good" one. I have spent more then enough in my search for a "good install," and even after sending a rifle to some "professional tech" to have the entire gun tuned, my tuned builds still do a better job compared to this "pro tuned" thing.

At of this moment I am still pretty firm in my current opinion of Rhops. Not Necessary, Over-Rated. In my experiences, rhops do not magically outperform any of the current commercially available hopup designs that replicate the same principle as the Rhop. The performance about the same. I have yet to see this magical "laser" that people go on about with rhops installed. Thats not to say ML or similar do not have their share of issues.

Now this is not to say I cannot have my mind changed. Just need proof in hand and not a one off. I want repeatable. If someone can produce a tutorial that can guarantee good results, I might change my mind. Though at this rate, I don't see that happening anytime soon. (No offense)

Hopefully you(wyz2285) (or someone else) will put some effort into an in-depth rhop guide.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:07 AM   #34
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Who knows, maybe once winter sets in I'll have a little more time. We're just trying to get buildings finished and gravel spread out before the cold sets in again. Up here that means probably within the next couple of weeks. The days are already getting really short so it won't be long before our gravel pile 'solidifies'. hehehehe.

Anyhew, we'll see how much time we have depending on how harsh winter is. After all it does last close to 9 months, so there should be a few hours in there. Let me chew on this a bit and I'll see what I can come up with. I do have a Combat Machine in pieces that I have to slam together to sell off (my last rifle!), so maybe I'll do a bit of a diary on it...
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:33 AM   #35
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I think the allure of an Rhop is that it can be customised, it can be finetuned, whereas a ML is only able to be installed and taken more or less as is. I have not personally made an Rhop nor used one, but just recently I used a custom cut eraser nub on my ML bucking. It's interesting, the groupings might not have been better, but it still felt really good to see something I had MADE performing so well. The ability to fine tune a hop up is quite important in my low level of experience.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:27 AM   #36
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I think the allure of an Rhop is that it can be customised, it can be finetuned, whereas a ML is only able to be installed and taken more or less as is. I have not personally made an Rhop nor used one, but just recently I used a custom cut eraser nub on my ML bucking. It's interesting, the groupings might not have been better, but it still felt really good to see something I had MADE performing so well. The ability to fine tune a hop up is quite important in my low level of experience.
This is exactly what I thought!

There are so many videos showing how to install an r-hop. But none of them covers how to fine tune one, maybe its so obvious that it doesnīt need an explanation, but I guess most people simply think just installing the patch is enough.
The benefit of an r-hop over a ML or similar, is that it can be tuned to your exact setup. If itīs not fine tuned, I donīt see a difference to a drop-in solution.

I have some r-hop patches laying around, once I get a better barrel and my mill, Iīll do some testing. I would also be interested in how a fixed r-hop performs compared to an adjustable one. I think I have to try out...
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:04 PM   #37
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From what I can tell you can tune ML just the same. All tuning is, is getting it to shoots straight. ML already does this straight off but is someone wished, they can add a little electrical tape to the top of the nub on one side to create a sideways curve. But why would you when they shoot straight anyway.
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:47 PM   #38
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From what I can tell you can tune ML just the same. All tuning is, is getting it to shoots straight. ML already does this straight off but is someone wished, they can add a little electrical tape to the top of the nub on one side to create a sideways curve. But why would you when they shoot straight anyway.
*assuming ML Quality Control fairies have blessed you.

Looking at the omega nub specifically.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:19 PM   #39
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Maybe. I never really have an issue with any bucking. It would be the rarest of occasion that a bucking has an issue. (Very rear)
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:35 PM   #40
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Was gonna post some results on the eraser nub vs the omega nub, but probably won't have time to till this weekend. I went out to shoot today, and to my dismay the gun was shooting to the left (albeit pretty consistently). I guess more fine tuning is in order! 😀
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:36 PM   #41
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Was gonna post some results on the eraser nub vs the omega nub, but probably won't have time to till this weekend. I went out to shoot today, and to my dismay the gun was shooting to the left (albeit pretty consistently). I guess more fine tuning is in order! 😀
*Right. Excuse my stupidity.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:56 AM   #42
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From what I can tell you can tune ML just the same. All tuning is, is getting it to shoots straight. ML already does this straight off but is someone wished, they can add a little electrical tape to the top of the nub on one side to create a sideways curve. But why would you when they shoot straight anyway.
Yesterday 09:27 AM
But by tuning a ML itīs not a drop in bucking anymore.
Also, ML buckings are more limited in tuning.
An r-hop is tuned to the exact barrel-window length and depth, maybe even to your bb weight or the ID of the barrel. You could also create a longer ramp at the start of the r-hop patch so the application of spin will be even less suddenly.
There are quite a few things that can be tuned or experimented with.
Once you start applying mentioned things to ML buckings, youīre probably better off by getting an r-hop...
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:04 AM   #43
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Like I said, if you want a sideways curve then you may want to tune the ML. But nobody wants a sideways curve. So it is just drop in and shoot straight.
If a ML or a standard bucking is already giving you enough backspin what advantage is tuning Rhop to the exact barrel-window length and depth, or to your bb weight or the ID of the barrel? (How does one tune it to the bb weight? Add more hopup?)
Personally, I think that an R-hop needs tuning because they are not perfect. It is really just a guessing game until you get it straight. Then you feel as though you have achieved something. The factory made buckings are normally straight out of the box. So factory made bucking already have all this tuning that everyone says needs to be done with R-hop.


So the question should be, do you want a bucking that is already tuned or would you rather do your own tuning to come up with the same results.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:50 AM   #44
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Like I said, if you want a sideways curve then you may want to tune the ML. But nobody wants a sideways curve. So it is just drop in and shoot straight.
If a ML or a standard bucking is already giving you enough backspin what advantage is tuning Rhop to the exact barrel-window length and depth, or to your bb weight or the ID of the barrel? (How does one tune it to the bb weight? Add more hopup?)
Personally, I think that an R-hop needs tuning because they are not perfect. It is really just a guessing game until you get it straight. Then you feel as though you have achieved something. The factory made buckings are normally straight out of the box. So factory made bucking already have all this tuning that everyone says needs to be done with R-hop.


So the question should be, do you want a bucking that is already tuned or would you rather do your own tuning to come up with the same results.
While MLs or even standard buckings can already give enough backspin, I see the difference in how (fast) the backspin is applied.
Your normal mound-style bucking will apply the spin in a really short time. Therefore the bb gets more of a "shock" when it hits the mound, then if the spin is applied at a slower rate from an r-hop, ML bucking or even er-hop.
The bb will then bounce around in the barrel more, (maybe get offset spin by doing so) and will vibrate more.
By tuning it to your exact barrel the contact surface can be maximized and and the spin therefore applied at the slowest possible rate.

The "bb-weight tuning thing " was meant in regard of a fixed r-hop, which is something Iīm currently thinking about, and going to test. The basic concept is that you put a metall-sleeve around the barrel (where the hop up window is) (patch has to be perfectly flush with the OD of the barrel)and then sand the inside of the patch untill it hops the desired bb-weight as best as possible. This means you lose the ability to adjust it, but you eliminate the variable of the patch pressing into your nub when the bb hits it, and also eliminate the variable of any play in your hop up arm. Oh, and there will be no irregular pressure on the patch like in a normal hop up unit (except for the MAXX one). Also by doing this fixed variant, the patch will actually stay concave on the inside (or any shape you want), meaning the contact surfaces can be maximized even more. Also it will center the bb better. On an adjustable r-hop, most people will make both the inside and outside of the patch flush with the ID/OD of the barrel. But once you adjust it, the shape of the patch will change slightly. The patch canīt move down, since its sides are sitting against the barrel-window. This means that just the middle of the patch is pushed down, which will change the shape from a concave one to a rather flat, maybe even convex one on the top of the patch. The problem is how do you get the bucking on there, when the sleeve is blocking it... Maybe Iīll just have to cut it and glue it down...
Will this work? I donīt know.
Will I try it? Absolutely.

Factory buckings are made to fit a number of different setups, while an r-hop will fit only one, but will be optimized for that setup.

To be honest, I would rather tune my own hop up, even if it gets the same result as a drop in solution. I would also get a gun and upgrade it myself, even if I could get the same gun already upgraded for the same price.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:09 AM   #45
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So what you've just described is exactly what the TNT, Flamingo, and now ML Mr. Hop buckings accomplish. They are concave patches than can be pushed into the barrel without deforming from sitting on the barrel window. Nub and arm movement are a non issue if you use a hard material for your nub and shim your hop arm.

To get the bb to fly flat and level it requires x amount of backspin or rotational speed. How that backspin is applied and over what distance doesn't change the rotational speed that bb will need to fly flat and level. Either it's reached that number, or it hasn't, and either you've got everything aligned properly so it flies straight, or you don't.
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