R Hops...again, the Real Deal FAQ's - Airsoft Sniper Forum

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Old 02-13-2020, 01:36 PM   #1
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R Hops...again, the Real Deal FAQ's

Ok, here's a definitive and clinical observation regarding the ins and outs of R hops.

First of all, can you shoot the posterior out of a squirrel at 400 yards? No.

It is not a cure for cancer, the eternal light, or the Holy Grail. BUT, done PROPERLY it can be a very effective and accurate system. Will it increase overall range? No...will it close up groupings and make things more consistent? Absolutely.

Can I buy one preinstalled and expect a rainbow of Skittles? No. Here's why...
A properly done R hop is very tedious process. The actual materials are dirt cheap, but it's 99 percent labour. The performance of the R hop will vary based on EVERYTHING....just like any other hop, but perhaps magnified. If you're off even just a little, the effectiveness of the system will send the BB into space instead of just a little to the left.

In the last 5 years I've r hopped everything from electrical conduit to bendy straws...OK, hyberbole, but I'm illustrating a point, and this is the lounge. Aluminum barrels, brass barrels, stainless, 6.01,6.03,6.04,6.08 and so on. I've r hopped pistols, SMG's, LMG's, DMR's snipers, everything I could find....and here's the result of all of that...

It is absolutely inconsistent from gun to gun. You can't just slap an r hop patch into a barrel window and use whatever nub and hop up chamber and expect results...nope. Absolutely not. You have to assemble and tune each component to each other. An L96 nub or dual arm setup with a 495mm barrel is certainly not an M4 setup with a 363 aluminum barrel with a traditional hop up.

As important, or perhaps more important than the patch itself is the nub and how it interacts with achieving the desired profile in the barrel. It's WAY more complex than just an M nub or a whatever and expecting glitter and unicorn farts. In this instance, you are better off with a Maple Leaf or whatever off the shelf system you can find.

BUT, and here's the rub...the R hop is extremely flexible and tunable. With the right combination of components and set up, the rifle becomes dead on predictable. This isn't about range...who cares about range. Any idiot can produce horsepower and make the BB go forever. No, what I'm talking about is threading the needle here. Knowing that when I line the scope up to shoot through that thicket at the guy's elbow, that's exactly where the BB is going. Ok, there's variances in the ammo, but within a very tiny percentile of error, that BB is going there. Way more often than not. Sure, the range is still exceptional by any standard, but even more important is the consistency.

Why take ten shots when I only need one? Right?

So, recap... NOT cost effective, therefore, no shortcuts. When it's right, it's really right, but we all know what it's like when it's wrong.

Anyone who says they can sell you a barrel with a patch installed and ensure your ultimate success is so full of manure I don't even know where to start. It takes HOURS to get it right. Sometimes multiple assembly and disassemblies. It took a couple of years to develop and experiment with nubs and materials to find the right combinations and even then, it changes WITH EVERY SINGLE GUN.

It will take forever to get it right. That's just a solid fact. Am I perfect at it? Not to my liking...yet. Is it far better than any commercial setup I've seen or tried. Abso-frikken-lutely. But I have been at this a long long time now...

So there it is...that's all you need to know.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:56 PM   #2
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I posted this in the last thread, and I'll post it here as well. According to everything I have heard, the tuning is not in the r-hop, but in the nub. Tuning and creating are two different things. If you get the patch perfect aligned with the barrel, as though it is one seamless piece, ou did it right. It is created.

I imagine it would be wayyyy easier to get this perfection by molding or machine cutting. If a barrel is made by a cnc, with each window identical to the last, then it shouldn't be hard to have another machine mold or cut a patch that fits perfectly. Every. Single. Time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is exactly whay you are going for: https://www.skirmshop.nl/en/morpheus-rhop-patch.html it's "perfect." Now whether it will work well in an unbridged system... that's a whole other debate, where I tend to think it will, largely due to the success of other buckings on the market. Work perfectly? Who the heck knows

Nubs are different, because chambers that currently exist may not be designed for an r-hop. As many from the old guard, and some from the new, have indicated: you want perfect, vertical and rigid pressure on the r-hop along the whole patch. Using the AA chamber, that is just not possible. It will press at an angle, or the nub will not be rigid (as, it can change angle like the panthera) A big part of this sounds to me like it's very difficult to economically create a chamber that applies perfect vertical pressure. It wouldn't even matter if it existed though, because all of the windows are different sizes, and anything off would create wildly bad variance, something that companies cannot afford.

I imagine most of the art is done in the nub and chamber, not the patch. In the nub and chamber, you can adjust for any possible intricacies or inconsistencies in hop. As you have stated Zero, you carve and shape it until you get the perfect bb positioning and flight path... bb going left? Shave the left surface of the nub shorter.

I could be wrong on all of this btw, as I've never done a succesful r-hop myself.

And regarding these standards, these descriptors like "worse," and "perfect." I have no idea what a perfect shot is... To tell you the truth, I haven't been satisfied with a single shot my rifle has taken, ever... I wish I got to see someone else's rifle, such as one of yours Zero. Something that I know is "good," so that I know what the goal is and where the limits are. It's difficult to have these conversations, when my rifle shoots better than everyone around me's, but none of them are true artisans... Most I know tend to be the "slap a g&g green in it and call it a day" kinda people.
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Last edited by Sodium; 02-13-2020 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:35 PM   #3
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Make no mistake, the patch still matters. The material, and even sometimes I'll change the shape of it slightly to achieve a different effect in a different application. For example, my L96 uses a dual arm setup, the patch is made differently. It's a different length, and a different curvature...it's carved for exactly that application. But yeah, the Morpheus thing is the right direction.

Your theory is close to on point, but I won't elaborate on it...that's up to you when you build and test one for yourself. At some point, you'll have to stop theorizing and do it. The art is in ALL of it. It starts right at the trigger release, involves the piston, the cylinder, the hop up...the WHOLE THING. Start to finish. That's why I say it varies per model. See the whole picture, man. It's all of it.

By the way, the perfect shot is the second one. The first is your reference, the second one counts. If the second one tracks exactly like the first, you know you're golden. For example, I set up my rifle on a 60m target...I know, doesn't sound very far, but dig this...I used a boresighter to get a laser reference on the target. Then I matched the laser on the rifle to the dot on the boresighter. All ten subsequent BB's went into that circle at 60 m...without reestablishing aim. Wherever the laser dot is, it hits it. No flyers, no wild shots. At 70m, same thing....with a tiny little variance..call it lack of BB weight, ceiling fans, etc...but still very acceptable, and still no scope. Pull the bolt, put the dot on it, and pull the trigger...HIT. It's lazy sniping, and almost boring, but in a pinch it can save your bacon.

Now there's much to be said for the green bucking crowd. They just go out there and give 'er. No obsessive thinking, no second guessing...spray and pray!! hahahaha. I admire those guys. So ok, perhaps the rifles are iffy, but are they still getting hits? Sometimes, ok all the time, it does come down to the hunter. I'm getting older, slower, so I have no choice....I have to have a better gun. :)
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