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Old 06-08-2020, 10:26 AM   #1
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Modifying your piece of crap pistol

Hey there. My first and favorite side arm was my elite force full auto beretta. I will start off by saying there is a lot that I don’t know. So I will do my best to explain my “question”.

The thing rips on full auto. Tons of parts have fallen off of it over the years but it still works. However sometimes it has terrible inconsistency issues. Like the bbs will have normal range but move insanely slow, OR drop right to the ground. I have taken the hopup assembly apart and the bucking is good, I teflon sealed it and put a dab of blue loctite on the adjuster threads to hold it in place. The nozzle is also fine.

What I’m trying to figure out is how exactly the full auto blowback system works. The nozzle “housing” mounts to the inside of the slide. The nozzle itself slides back and forth within the housing. But I feel like the nozzle is moving when it’s not supposed to, causing my efficiency issue. To put it into automotive terms, it seems like the timing is off.

When the nozzle is forward, the bottom of it lines up with the seal on top of the mag, thus powering the pistol. But why does the nozzle have its own back and forth movement, aside from the movement of the slide? I have a parts gun on the way so I can swap in new nozzle parts. But it would be nice if someone with pistol experience could break down the flow of Co2 in regards to the moving parts.

If you actually read all of that, thank you for your time. Feel free to post your scrapper junkyard pistols too!!
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:15 AM   #2
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Here's my super wordy description. An animation would definitely be able to exhibit this behavior much better than my words can. Maybe google has one somewhere.

Here's a breakdown:

1) User pulls trigger, valve knocker strikes magazine valve
2) Gas vents upwards out of the magazine gasket and up into the nozzle, travelling into two primary directions as guided by the floating valve: A) out the front of the nozzle to propell bb B) out of the rear of the nozzle and into the piston that seals the nozzle with the blowback unit
3) As pressure builds in the piston/nozzle, the slide begins to fly backwards. This same pressure also begins to push the floating valve to close, cutting off gas to the barrel and forcing more gas into the piston and building even more pressure. Bottom of the nozzle is still sealed with the magazine gasket so pressure continues to build. Front of the nozzle also remains sealed with the bucking until the slide moves back far enough such that the nozzle spring puts enough pressure to break the friction hold between the nozzle/bucking.
4) Once pressure is high enough, nozzle breaks free from the bucking and snaps backwards into the blowback housing. Pressure is vented out of the piston area and out of the front of the nozzle (no longer sealed with the barrel/bucking so its vented into atmosphere) and bottom of the nozzle (no longer sealed with magazine so its vented into atmosphere).
5) With no pressure in the system springs and sears reset the system back into battery, loading the next BB into the chamber and resetting/priming sears for the next shot.


Edit: Speaking of animations, here's a good one (youtube extension in case link doesnt work: /watch?v=MlPDGO6wpro)
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Last edited by whalesmash; 06-08-2020 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:37 PM   #3
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Thank you so much Whale Smash. I could have certainly put more effort into searching for a video, however your description is exactly what I was looking for. I see now how the movement of the nozzle is put into play. Once the parts gun arrives, I will compare the nozzle. I think something might be worn down that I can’t see because it’s...well gone lol. She has thousands of shots through her and the nozzle is plastic so it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s my problematic area!!
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Sniper View Post
She has thousands of shots through her and the nozzle is plastic so it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s my problematic area!!
The nozzle is designed so that it breaks (reasonably) often and saves the other pieces from damage. This is why you should always use polymer nozzles and not crappy metal ones. If I was to hazard a guess as to what would have broken, it would be that.
As a replacement nozzle, please please get a polymer one. The lifespan of your pistol will be much greater than if you use a metal one.
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Last edited by BlackDogAirsoft; 06-08-2020 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 06-08-2020, 04:15 PM   #5
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I've got some goofy AIP nozzle in my 1911 that's been in thers for what's going on its fifth year. Amazing...I use to swap a stock KJ nozzle every couple of months.

One thing to check with a bloback pistol is how much slop your barrel has in the frame of the gun and relative to the slide. Just about everything in a blowback pistol is a wear item and slop in the barrel will knock things out of alignment and cause poor performance as well....especially after a pile of ammo has gone through it.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:34 AM   #6
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I don’t know how many parts are cross compatible. My beretta isn’t one of the ones on the market with tons of upgrade. I’m currently doing some research now to see if nozzles from others pistols work!

EDIT: I didn’t realize how common they were for gbb in general lmao. Thought they were all proprietary. I’ll do my patented evike pic comparison to match up the tabs then try one out!!
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Last edited by Blind Sniper; 06-09-2020 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:25 AM   #7
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Oh! Forgot to mention, I didn't replace any parts in the 1911 but rather made spacers to restore proper alignment to the barrel/hop up.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:38 AM   #8
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Evike actually has a rebuild kit specifically for my pistol. But I will still be on the look out for upgraded nozzle/pistons hehe
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