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Old 01-09-2012, 01:30 PM   #31
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As was I man.... I have been designing a gas bolt system for the VSR for some time now. And I may actually get started on it soon



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Old 01-11-2012, 12:43 AM   #32
 
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bob, you are correct, we should, and and one point, my SR-15 could. Point is, what you are talking about is nothing new, but the issue is that it will never be a drop-in part. It takes a LOT of tuning, and if you replace a part (like I did with the SR-15) you have to start that process all over again, except with HPA guns, you can now tune the power level too. That means even MORE tuning time put in, which is not something that most people want to do, frankly.

You are basically right about the BV system, but with one thing missing. The BV system can use a very low operating pressure, but that means that your trigger response and ROF will be VERY slow, at least on a kokusai BV. That is why the crimebuster, which is not BV, has such a low operating pressure. To get a decent trigger response depends on how fast you can pull it, not how much air is going through the system, whereas to get any decent trigger response/ROF out of the kokusai BV, I have to put about 100-110 PSI through it.

Woogie, did you find the plans for that MGC kit? All I saw were some descriptions about how it worked...



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Old 01-11-2012, 11:45 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Man
bob, you are correct, we should, and and one point, my SR-15 could. Point is, what you are talking about is nothing new, but the issue is that it will never be a drop-in part. It takes a LOT of tuning
True, what I would like to see is a 'drop in' in the sense that it replaces the entire mech box and hop up unit. This would naturally end up being sold in a complete package, but whoever does it would be smart to make it a 'drop in' for existing body designs. ARs could be difficult, but there is no reason that any other gun body would be.


Quote:
and if you replace a part (like I did with the SR-15) you have to start that process all over again, except with HPA guns, you can now tune the power level too. That means even MORE tuning time put in, which is not something that most people want to do, frankly.
Yes and no. A lot of this will depend on the design of the system. Classics were fairly complex and did require a lot of tuning. However, there are certainly ways to make it easier to tune and more... stable? than a classic classic system.


Quote:
You are basically right about the BV system, but with one thing missing. The BV system can use a very low operating pressure, but that means that your trigger response and ROF will be VERY slow, at least on a kokusai BV. That is why the crimebuster, which is not BV, has such a low operating pressure. To get a decent trigger response depends on how fast you can pull it, not how much air is going through the system, whereas to get any decent trigger response/ROF out of the kokusai BV, I have to put about 100-110 PSI through it.
Things like trigger response, charging time between shots (if any) and consistency are all issues that can be addressed in the design of the system itself.

When I think of the direction we should be going from classic engines, I don't mean that we should necessarily go back to the BV type system; but rather a mechanical (maybe electric hybrid) HPA system that cycles more along the lines of a real firearm instead of a box with a motor and a piston as in the AEGs. Not even the P* is recommended to run off of HPA.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:33 PM   #34
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What do you mean the p* isn't recommended to run off of hpa? It's the I y thig you are supposed to run it off of.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #35
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The manual says CO2, HPA voids the warranty (from what I've heard). It'll run HPA if you have a regulated system, but for legal reasons they say not to because one person with a bad regulator and it'll blow because its not rated for it. Now, judging from the hosing, if something did fail on HPA, you'd blow a line and everything would be OK, minus possibly losing all your air. However worst case, you blow a cylinder, and believe me, that is not something you want to be around. (I had a chamber at 80 PSI go off near me once and that was bad enough, ~800 PSI because of a faulty regulator (CO2) or 3000+ (HPA) is no joke)... atleast thats what I recall reading in pre-release, it would appear things have changed lol, my mistake.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:07 PM   #36
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Not to be rude man, but i have one. And you are supposed to be running it off of HPA. What else would you run it off of? Most set ups have 2 regulators on them to prevent things like this happening (a marco and micro i believe) hence the fine tuning of the fps.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgengeskahn
atleast thats what I recall reading in pre-release, it would appear things have changed lol, my mistake.


chillax...
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:16 PM   #38
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From what I've read, they don't want you to use CO2 because the liquid could find its way into the system (I'd be surprised if it ever did though).

Bob does make a good point though. I could imagine company saying not to use HPA due to the reason he stated.

I think either would be fine though, especially if they were double regulated.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:16 PM   #39
 
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Wesley is right, they don't want you using CO2 because it gunks up the solenoids, and the possibility of liquid co2 getting into the engine is too high if you don't have a nice regulator setup.



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Old 01-11-2012, 09:18 PM   #40
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Yea c02 is a no no. Its not even worth it in my opinion. Why take a chance of messing up your expensive set up. That's just my opinion at least.
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