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Old 12-15-2019, 07:43 AM   #1
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Action Army all the way out???

I'm building a vsr 10 g spec and I'm swapping the hop up for an action army, maple leaf nub and bucking, and a couple barrel spacers. But I'm hung up on tightbore barrel choice. I'm thinking about action army as I've heard some good things when it's used in conjunction with the AA hop up. Let me know what ya guys think.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:47 AM   #2
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How much do you want to spend? EdGi and PDI are up there in quality, but also pricey. Lately the word is; if it’s tight and straight, the barrel will serve its purpose and give good results. If you are stuck trying to decide just get a Maple Leaf Crazy Jet!
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:05 PM   #3
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I use Action Army 6.01mm AEG barrels. They work fine. You will have to file off the lip if you get one of their AEG barrels (This gives you the convenience of choosing any barrel length you want) but their VSR10 barrel already have the lip removed.
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Old 12-16-2019, 06:22 PM   #4
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Price is not issue. I'm looking for the best performance possible. I want to be able to make 300+ ft shots. I'm phenomenal at making ghillie suits and blending in to my environment (I'm a wildlife photographer) but definitely not a pro vsr builder lol I've heard good things about the crazy jet but I'm kinda skeptical about the whole end of the barrel air cushion deal
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:08 PM   #5
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Safest way to get the best possible theoretical quality is edgi. He even does stainless steel now. That said, I hear incredible things about the lambda barrels. They make vsr cut barrels now, and supposedly they are made by the original creator of pdi.
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Old 12-17-2019, 06:37 AM   #6
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I'm just gona buy an edgi, pdi, and crazy jet and do a bunch of testing. I'll post my results when I do it. Also I was thinking about geoffs bbs or those kickingmustang .48s. What's your thoughts on those?
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:11 AM   #7
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Sounds cool. I'd love to see a test, assuming you got proper barrel cuts. I'd make sure you ask edgi to get your barrel window cut with the same dimensions as the crazy jet.

If your goal is get maximum accuracy, you likely won't notice a difference between edgi and pdi. What I would do is tune your system to maximum efficiency, and have Ed make a barrel for you that is volumetrically perfect for whatever bb weight you are going to use. Use this sheet to figure that out, if you want: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t?usp=drivesdk

Mustangs are the best, according the magic markers bb analysis, so I would use that. Just realized you said you'll use .48s, so you should get a 370mm barrel, cut with a crazy jet window and put in an mr-hop bucking (it seems accepted that they are just better thsn the autobot).

While I would love to see testing, I am almost 100% certain that you will see absolutely no difference between edgi and pdi, and that it would really be a waste of money if you want to create the best system, and not share knowledge with the airsoft community (which I wouldn't mind at all). I also must add, if money truly isn't a problem for you, pick up a modify x-range bucking and try that against the mr-hop. I've heard almost nothing about that, but the two sources I have spoken to say they are amazing, and seal perfectly. They came out around the same time as the mr-hop, and ml is a more popular company so everyone purchased their bucking, but the modify is made of a unique silicone material that is theoretically a lot better, and has a pretty interesting patch shape to it.

Final note: use a panthera nub, not maple leaf nub. They are better and everyone agrees. They are also way easier to install. This will give you the biggest boost in accuracy.
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:27 AM   #8
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So if I went with the crazy jet should I get it more like 380 mm to take in account the end of the barrel releasing air pressure?
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Old 12-17-2019, 09:31 AM   #9
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I believe they only do 370mm, but I doubt it makes that big of a difference. According to the experts of voluming here (they guys that got these numbers in the first place,) it doesn't really effect accuracy at all. It just maximises power efficiency, giving you the greatest joule creep for a system. This allows you to use the lightest spring you can. For example, my system is set up to shoot 3j while only using a 2j spring.

Also, it's supposedly better to be under the perfect ratio than over (if you have to choose one.)
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #10
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My field limit is 500 fps for snipers so I wana be right there. I'm still learning so the whole joule creep concept is kinda no man's land for me right lol. Mind explaining?
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Old 12-17-2019, 01:11 PM   #11
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Joule creep is the process by which heavier bbs travel with more energy than lighter bbs in the same system. The reasons this happens are somewhat debated, but the best way to describe the difference is throwing a pingpong ball vs a baseball with the same arm force. It is easier to apply more energy to a heavier, more dense projectile. Certain systems create more joule creep, as in, imparting a bigger energy difference on heavier bbs than lighter ones. While the fps of heavier bbs is always lower, using the equation Kinetic Energy = .5(mass)(velocity^2).

There are two reasons to use joule creep, either to get an easier bolt pull and have the same energy, or to sneak heavier energy past the field limits.

Case one: if the field chronographs with fps, a proper settup will allow you to get a lot more energy out of heavier bbs, maximizing the efficiency of the system and allowing you to use heavier bbs. Example of this is if your the field limit is 500fps with .25g (2.9j of energy), you can use a 2j spring, and with a properly optimized system and .48g bbs, you can get 2.9j of energy per shot.

Case two: maximizing the fps of the bb they chrono with at your field, so that when you use the real ammo you are using, the energy your rifle is shooting is actually much greater than the field limit, giving you a range and power advantage. This is a hottly debated subject, as many think its a form of cheating. An example of this is, if the fps limit is 500 fps with .25g bbs, and your rifle is shooting 500 fps with .25g bbs, thats 2.9 joules of energy. Now, if this system is optimized for joule creep, using .48g bbs you may be able to get something like 3.6j of energy in your shot, giving you far more energy then what the field technically allows.

In order to maximize joule creep, and either get the lightest bolt pull, or shoot very very hard, you need a volume/ratio optimized, using the chart I had posted. You can also increase joule creep a lot by using a weighted piston such as the WASP or SAP piston.
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Last edited by Sodium; 12-17-2019 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 12-17-2019, 01:27 PM   #12
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Joule creep is the practice of tuning a rifle to be more efficient with a bb of greater mass than with the bb used for field testing purposes.

In the US, many fields chrono with a 0.20g BB since it is a standard defined in most field insurance policies, which are derived from paintball insurance. Some milsim organizations have a greater understanding of the concept and more appropriately chrono based on joules with a 0.32g BB, as it is currently a more commonly used game weight and cures many of the complaints associated with HPA use.

Some view joule creeping as cheating, others view it as adhering to the letter of the rules while using knowledge to improve the effectiveness of their platform. For me locally, many of us use joule creep to have platforms that test according to our local insurance based field rules but deliver milsim level results for the events we frequently attend.

I personally prefer to call it heavyweight optimization, because ultimately that is what joule creeping is.

As to how it is done . . . that really depends on how extreme you want to be, your technical knowledge and the tools/funds at your disposal.
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Old 12-17-2019, 02:13 PM   #13
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If you don't understand the concept of kinetic energy in a bb, its effectively the difference between getting hit by a baseball at 60mph and a ping pong ball at 60mph. The baseball has a lot more energy behind it, and will retain that energy much longer, traveling much farther and hitting harder at a distance.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:46 PM   #14
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I like to say it’s bringing the fps of a light and heavy bb closer together. In simple terms!
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:11 PM   #15
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Awesome guys thank you! So if my my barrel length should be 370 mm (given using the formula above) would I have to buy a 370 mm aeg crazy jet and cut the bridge out?
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