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Old 03-30-2020, 10:30 AM   #16
Fynn64   Fynn64 is offline
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Changing solely the piston wont give you much of a gain, Id change other variables mentioned above. If you are stuck on ONLY changing your piston for a gain, a shorter piston would help. EdGi makes a shorter one (compared to most) but Im not sure about other brands.
How would a shorter piston give you more fps?
Also, do you have a link for the edgi piston? Their normal one is actually slightly longer if Im not mistaken.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:48 AM   #17
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More time to speed up. I have a short and long EdGi piston. I think the older one is longer from the earlier gens. Newer ones are shorter. But you could just message EdGi to purchase. I can take some measurements shortly.

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Old 03-30-2020, 11:09 AM   #18
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Short EdGi piston is ~100mm long
Long EdGi piston is ~116mm long

Not a mile but that’s a decent amount of length/space for cylinder volume. Each length has pros/cons.

I can maximize my vsr volume with the short piston paired with a bull trigger. You have to modify the spring guide though, shave that nipple off the base or it won’t latch back.

The long piston you can make heavier, the bolt pull will be a tad shorter, you can use more spring spacers or a lead ball to add more tension/weight. But you have less volume.

Many things. Definitely worth having both to tune your rifle!!
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:40 AM   #19
Vsr10   Vsr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Sniper View Post
Short EdGi piston is ~100mm long
Long EdGi piston is ~116mm long

Not a mile but that’s a decent amount of length/space for cylinder volume. Each length has pros/cons.

I can maximize my vsr volume with the short piston paired with a bull trigger. You have to modify the spring guide though, shave that nipple off the base or it won’t latch back.

The long piston you can make heavier, the bolt pull will be a tad shorter, you can use more spring spacers or a lead ball to add more tension/weight. But you have less volume.

Many things. Definitely worth having both to tune your rifle!!
Stock one (plastik) is 110mm top to bottom , will mesure new one, i don't think that i can put shorter piston, because of the groove where sear goes, piston o ring wil be visible and no air can be trapped inside the cylinder until piston passes groove, maybe a bit more acceleration but nothing worth
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Old 03-30-2020, 01:36 PM   #20
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More time to speed up.
Hmm, true.
But at the same time, it would need to compress more air, which makes it slower.
Have you compared the two to eachother fps wise?

Piston length would be interesting for fine tuning...
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Old 03-30-2020, 01:42 PM   #21
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I tried to put smaller plastic piston in new cylinder and it won't catch trigger sear
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:02 PM   #22
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You could put a sorbo pad on the cylinderhead to fix that.
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Fynn64 View Post
You could put a sorbo pad on the cylinderhead to fix that.
Yeah, but i will lose some volume, which i chasing with smaller piston, this is only was a test, tomorrow il get m190 spring an see how much fps will get before adding weight on pps piston
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:29 PM   #24
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I’m not very educated on physics, but both pistons are moving the air through the same hole, shorter with more speed before reaching the end, seems like the reason for the fps gain. BUT there are many variables and every setup is different! To me, it’s just another way of adjusting the cylinder to barrel ratio. Except you’re doing it on the cylinder end, not the barrel end. It makes sense to me because I think it’s similar to using a longer barrel for an fps gain. If you use a 430mm over a 300mm inner barrel, the fps should be higher because you’re saving air. It’s not like you lose fps with a longer barrel because the “bb has to be pushed further”


To the op, was your blue aa piston a 90? If the stock plastic is a 45 it might not latch properly. But the sorbo pad mentioned can also help if the degree isn’t the issue.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:19 PM   #25
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To the op, was your blue aa piston a 90? If the stock plastic is a 45 it might not latch properly. But the sorbo pad mentioned can also help if the degree isn’t the issue.
Its pps 45 piston 🙂 it doesn't matter for the plastic one, i won't use it, it was only a try, pps cylinder have more volume to the groove than the old one, and this shorter piston won't work, it might, with 1cm length of sorbo pad
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:35 PM   #26
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Oh yea my bad I forgot you had the post setup. Ditch all that and get 90, before that m190 blows your 45 sears apart!!
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:05 PM   #27
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Oh yea my bad I forgot you had the post setup. Ditch all that and get 90, before that m190 blows your 45 sears apart!!
I made some parts from tool steel, works like a charm for now, until i get 90
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:44 PM   #28
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Get a Springer Custom works piston. Add some hockey tape or metal solder if you need extra weight.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:07 AM   #29
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Get a Springer Custom works piston. Add some hockey tape or metal solder if you need extra weight.
I mentioned above, sadly I don't have any choice of piston except AA one,i see that the laylax piston have 6 holes on piston head for expanding O ring, i maybe make new piston head with this holes on my pps piston, but i don't see any difference,because pps piston seals perfect, maybe doesn't seal on high speeds
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Old 03-31-2020, 03:39 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Blind Sniper View Post
I’m not very educated on physics, but both pistons are moving the air through the same hole, shorter with more speed before reaching the end, seems like the reason for the fps gain. BUT there are many variables and every setup is different! To me, it’s just another way of adjusting the cylinder to barrel ratio. Except you’re doing it on the cylinder end, not the barrel end. It makes sense to me because I think it’s similar to using a longer barrel for an fps gain. If you use a 430mm over a 300mm inner barrel, the fps should be higher because you’re saving air. It’s not like you lose fps with a longer barrel because the “bb has to be pushed further”
Since you own both lengths of piston, could you test which one gives higher fps?

We really have to divide this into two types of setups:
1. Properly-/overvolumed setups (piston hitting cylinderhead while/after bb leaves the barrel)
2. Undervolumed ones (piston hitting the cylinderhead before the bb leaves the barrel)

1. If you change your piston out for a shorter one, it wont have any effect on fps. Theres a certain volume needed to accelerate the bb through the whole length of the barrel.
It doesnt matter, which piston length you use, this volume stays the same (of course Im only changing piston length, other variables stay the same). So once this volume has been "transferred" from the cylinder into the barrel, the bb leaves the barrel, and gets decellerated. So the piston has travelled a certain distance at the point at which the bb leaves the barrel. This distance stays the same for a short or long piston. Also the accelerations and therefore velocitys of both pistons are identical to eachother at every point of this distance. In a perfectly volumed gun, the piston will hit the CH once the bb leaves the barrel. Therefore the whole travellength, from the back of the cylinder to the CH would be the distance of which Ive spoken above. Now, if you put in a shorter piston, the distance that the piston travelled and therefore its velocity when the bb leaves the barrel are the same as the values of the longer piston.
This means that anymore acceleration of the piston is irrelevant, since the bb has already left the barrel at/before the point, at which the shorter piston would have a higher velocity than the longer one. Also, the piston velocity while the bb is in the barrel is the same.
This applies to perfectly- and overvolumed setups.

2. If your setup is undervolumed, meaning the bb is still in the barrel after the piston hit the CH, and therefore is not getting accelerated anymore, it would be different. If you put in a shorter piston, you gain cylinder volume. This means, that you can properly accellerate the bb through the whole barrel, giving you more fps. In this case, the extra acceleration is also being used. At the same time it means that more air has to be pushed through the nozzle meaning more force that acts against the pistons acceleration (resistance forces from pushing the air through the nozzle, force from more air getting compressed, resistance of the o-ring). Id say that these forces are probably small enough to still let your rifle gain fps.

To sum it up, I think shorter pistons will give you more fps in undervolumed setups, but not in properly-/overvolumed ones.
Therefore I agree with you, every setup is different.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The piston length of the WASP gen1 is 110mm, just as another example.

Last edited by Fynn64; 03-31-2020 at 04:10 AM.
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