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Old 11-13-2019, 08:51 PM   #1
1tonne   1tonne is online now
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600fps AEG

So our club allows AEG's up to 3.33 joules (600fps) if it has a 3 second delayer between shots.
So effectively it is like a sniper rifle.
Currently, my rifle is firing at 3.15 joules when the hopup is set for 0.48gm bb's.
What I am looking for is for any advise on how to make it better. So better in any way. Higher fps, longevity, anything.


Here is the current build:
-E&C M4
-Aluminium Gearbox (Can't remember brand as I have had it for years)
-JG M96 armature with AA R30000 Can
-8mm SHS bushings
-Metal Spring guide
-Plastic Cylinder head (This is my weak point)
-Bore Up Cylinder (24.85mm in diameter)
-Aluminium Piston and Piston Head (Stretched O-ring)
-SHS M190 Spring
-Sorbathane on cylinder head
-SHS 32:1 gears
-SHS Red Bucking
-AA 6.01mm x 540mm
-Shock Transfer System/Well Brace
-11.1v Lipo
Rate of fire is about 18rps. So pretty good for a big rifle with 32:1 gears.


Any extra hints that people may have as there is not much on the net about how to make an extra powerful rifle.


NOTE: I have asked the same question on another forum and so hopefully, I can improve it further.
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Last edited by 1tonne; 12-02-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1tonne View Post
So our club allows AEG's up to 3.33 joules (600fps) if it has a 3 second delayer between shots.
So effectively it is like a sniper rifle.
Currently, my rifle is firing at 3.15 joules when the hopup is set for 0.48gm bb's.
What I am looking for is for any advise on how to make it better. So better in any way. Higher fps, longevity, anything.


Here is the current build:
-E&C M4
-Aluminium Gearbox (Can't remember brand as I have had it for years)
-JG M96 armature with AA R30000 Can
-8mm SHS bushings
-Metal Spring guide
-Plastic Cylinder head (This is my weak point)
-Bore Up Cylinder (24.85mm in diameter)
-Aluminium Piston and Piston Head (Stretched O-ring)
-SHS M190 Spring
-Sorbathane on cylinder head
-SHS 32:1 gears


-SHS Red Bucking
-AA 6.01mm x 540mm
-Shock Transfer System/Well Brace
-11.1v Lipo
Rate of fire is about 18rps. So pretty good for a big rifle with 32:1 gears.


Any extra hints that people may have as there is not much on the net about how to make an extra powerful rifle.


NOTE: I have asked the same question on another forum and so hopefully, I can improve it further.
Geeeezz! Why would anyone do that I've a bolty?
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:37 PM   #3
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I can't speak to longevity, as I'm not big on AEGs beyond they're fun to shoot.

As far as increasing fps or power, I don't know if its needed if you're already above 3J with .48s. I can run my VSR from 2.6-4J and honestly... past 3J the difference in range isn't much and there is no difference in accuracy I can discern. I usually run it around 3.5-3.7 just because that's the easiest set up for me, but I wouldn't expect a significant performance decrease if I have to run it at 3J or slightly below.

Could always weight the piston and see how that turns out, but with a barrel that long it probably won't change much...

This reminds me of old ASR threads where people tried to upgrade their PSG1's to 5 and 600fps but the parts back then weren't as well made. Would love to see one of those now.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:32 PM   #4
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I can't increase the fps much more but if someone had a good idea that would increase the energy, then I may be able to use a weaker spring to help with the longevity.
The rifle does shoot awesome though. Hitting an A4 paper very often at 70 meters. I guess about 70% of the time.


I did try weighting the piston but I lost energy. So I put a lighter piston head on and I gained 0.06 joules. I am looking at trying a plastic piston tomorrow. Hopefully it will up the energy a little more.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:23 AM   #5
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Sounds an absolute monster.


Ok not playable where i am. And getting an M4 as a DMR spec would have been hard in the past, before some clubs had guidelines of a DMR must be a real world DMR and only one shot in flight per target at a time so no trigger spamming and quad tapping. And locked to semi only.

The bolties some clubs had a rule of doing an assesment day, if you passed that you had to get shot with your own gun at MED to clear the course then be supervised for a few games. Non of this buy a monster go play. Happy days.


Anyways.
Can't help with FPS, but long term reliability.
8mm Bushes. would bearings not be better ? maybe the bush is stronger, would expect less drag in the system using bearings. Can the case be machined to accept 9mm bearings or larger.

Spring guide. A plain one ? swap to a bearing guide, again a marginal gain in less drag. A bearing guide and piston/head might see a marginal gain as spring is free to rotate so maybe a faster piston movement.


Apart from that, run it until it eats itself then see what's failed and start again :)
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:40 AM   #6
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The Milsim DMR stuff I've always felt was such BS. There's plenty of 5.56 DMR rifles out there, and regardless, airsoft isn't milsim no matter how much people want it to be.

If someone wants to run a CZ scorpion as a DMR I say let them. If you look at it from the perspective of the ranges airsoft is actually played at... a 9mm is very effective at 300ft and under, as is every other round in existence. It's all just silly to me.

Go LARP and have fun, but realize there's a big difference between BB warz and milsim. I prefer to just let people run what they want and have fun.


Back to the plastic piston, a lighter one probably would be of benefit with such a long barrel, but the longevity would be my concern. Are there any aluminum ones that come in at similar weights?
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:45 AM   #7
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What's your test BB weight for 600FPS?

Have you tested your setup with a 0.66g or 0.69g?


Another approach is to decrease barrel length, increase piston/piston head weight then add spacers behind the spring on the guide to preload the spring more. The idea is to build your point of efficiency for a heavier projectile while being inefficient with your test weight . . . basic joule creep magic.

Longevity will always be your issue with a high-power AEG. There are a dozen points of failure, from your pinion all the way to your gearbox shell. Eventually something is going to break, and likely be spectacular when it does.

Knowing all this, I also am working on a high power DMR for a friend based on a Krytac SPR. I'm leaving all the gear work to others, but am making the piston head from 303 stainless round bar that will be matched to AOE and incorporate a hefty preload spacer inside the piston. When I finally get around to it, I'll let you know how it performs.
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Old 11-14-2019, 01:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/UMP View Post
8mm Bushes. would bearings not be better ? ..Can the case be machined to accept 9mm bearings or larger.
With such a big spring, bearings stuff up pretty quickly. They may work but not for overly long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/UMP View Post
Spring guide. A plain one ? swap to a bearing guide, again a marginal gain in less drag. A bearing guide and piston/head might see a marginal gain as spring is free to rotate so maybe a faster piston movement.
Spring guide is a plain one without the bearing but I have a bearing in the piston at the other end of the spring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccurateDMD View Post
Back to the plastic piston, a lighter one probably would be of benefit with such a long barrel, but the longevity would be my concern. Are there any aluminum ones that come in at similar weights?
I will hopefully try the plastic piston today. Unfortunately is does look like a thick plastic and not a polycarbonate one which would last longer.
I will also weight each piston so that it can give people an idea of the energy rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corriander View Post
What's your test BB weight for 600FPS?
The test weight is the heavy 0.48gm bb that I use in game with the hopup set for the bb to fire straight. So I can't joule creep.
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Old 11-14-2019, 02:12 PM   #9
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Only AEG i know that could shoot at this level is the old Systema PTW but that was designed for that power and you paid a lot for one...... then paid someone else more again to sort out the running issues :)
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:34 PM   #10
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Only AEG i know that could shoot at this level is the old Systema PTW but that was designed for that power and you paid a lot for one...... then paid someone else more again to sort out the running issues :)

I investigated these since you mentioned them and from what people are saying is that they are old technology that is really behind the times (Has not changed in about 10 years). They were a poor design too. ICS liked the concept of the split gearbox and so they improved it and that is why ICS now has their system.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:55 PM   #11
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So, a V2 gearbox really struggles to get above 3 joules. Especially with heavier bb's. You can do it with the lighter bb's but they are not what I want to use. I want range and accuracy and so I want to use 0.48gm.


Anyway, I have pretty much ordered a complete new receiver and new gearbox and new internals in my quest to get 3.3 joules with 0.48gm. Here they are:


-Jing Gong SR25 Receiver
-Retro Arms 8mm SR25 Aluminium Gearbox
-Retro Arms 8mm bushings (These are really tight and will never move)
-SR25 Stainless Cylinder (I have bored this out to 24.45mm)
-Bigger O-ring on piston head to fit bored out cylinder
-SR25 Tappet Plate
-Retro Arms Adjustable air nozzle (I am hoping I can extend the nozzle just a little to give a better air seal and more energy)
-SHS SR25 Gears
-Super Shooter 32:1 gears (These can be pulled apart and paired with the SR25 gears to make SR25 32:1 gears)
-SR25 Aluminium Piston with full metal half teeth to fit 32:1 gears
-Orga 6.00mm x 460mm barrel (This should give about the best cylinder to barrel ratio with the 0.48gm bb's. So giving me the highest energy possible)


Since the SR25 gearbox is longer, the M190 now is not as compressed as previously. So I will also add some spring spacers to help increase the energy.


I need more ideas. If you have any, let me know. I want this to be my masterpiece high end AEG (with 3 second delayer between shots)
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:49 AM   #12
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Sorry if there is a glaring reason I've missed but what about just converting to HPA? would remove all the longevity issues and be more consistent. A mancraft drop in would be a very cost effective solution but maybe with a wolverine you could add the delay in?
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:52 AM   #13
 
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So what are you using for electrical? A Titan would give you your 3 second delay and a leviathan will do up to 4 seconds.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:22 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Steveocee View Post
Sorry if there is a glaring reason I've missed but what about just converting to HPA? would remove all the longevity issues and be more consistent. A mancraft drop in would be a very cost effective solution but maybe with a wolverine you could add the delay in?

I could go HPA but there is no challenge in that. Though the quiet factor would be cool. Currently the rifle I have is nearly as quiet as a Socom anyway and in the next week it should be quieter as I will be adding a Lonex Pinion and bevel set which should get rid of any squelching sound from any mis-anglement of the pistol grip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plazmaburn View Post
So what are you using for electrical? A Titan would give you your 3 second delay and a leviathan will do up to 4 seconds.

The Mosfet I am using is a cheap no name one that is exactly the same as the Burst Wizard 3. You can get them for about US$25 on Aliexpress and they have a lot of features. Probably the best value for money around though they can be a little difficult to figure out at times.
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Old Today, 05:05 PM   #15
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I received the receiver and the Retro Arms Gearbox fits. I did have to do a little filing just inside the front of the receiver to get the mag to fit and a little on the hopup where the bb's feed into but it is feeding now. Awesome.

Still waiting on some more parts to allow me to get it to 3.33 joules but I am well on the way now. Currently it is shooting 2.7 joules on 0.4gm bb's and 2.65 joules on 0.48gm.
Runs on a 7.4v with 18:1 gears and a M190 spring (a little slow but still works). Will use a 11.1v lipo in the proper build though as it will have 32:1 gears and the 7.4v will be to slow. I was just surprized the 7.4v was able to pull it. I will be adding a spacer made out of another M190 spring. So it should take it up to about an M200.
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