Airsoft Sniper Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
I thought barrel length of 430mm is the best for vsr cylinder (matched,better accuracy)
To a degree this is correct, we did a stack of side by side tests amongst a bunch of us on a UK site about 10 or 12 years ago, and found that a 430mm barrel was more accurate than a 509mm or 550mm, and this was when volume optimising was in its infancy, when most, if anybody except us serious modifying freaks where doing it, or even heard of it :shrug:

There are other benefits to volume balancing to a 430mm barrel, and not just that you can keep your gun a respectable and managable length....

There is the benifit that in a balanced cylinder the piston has time to build up kinetic energy before its being asked to compress any air, as opposed to the barrel/volume described above, which is asking the piston to compress the air right from trigger release.

The Oring in a balanced cylinder also has time to seat properly before having to perform any compression, so its being more effective when its asked to perform the compression, as opposed to the 5 to 10mm of compression stroke you lose while the O ring seats properly in a full compression style cylinder.

Some good info here though for the FNGs out there,....... sadly some of us are alot longer in the tooth, and have been doing all these mods in 1 form or another, for the better part of a decade and a half..... :yup: ...... God I feel old :ashamed:

As an aside..... RE the DE M50..... I bought 1 of these for my son last year, it now has a 90 degree trigger & piston, VSR guide and spring, TDC, LRB, exstended nub, 500mm AEG barrel, & is capable of in excess of 500fps with a .2.... Total cost was £50 outlay for the gun, all other bits were floating about in my parts bin >:D..... Any thing is possible if you have the where-with-all :tup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
I would have never guessed. The M50 was the first sniper I ever bought and back then I did not know much about rifles and so I just read what was on the net instead of pulling it apart. I read that they could not be upgraded. Well, at least back then they could not be upgraded. (or no-one every tried)
I still would not recommend it as it does look like very low quality plastic.
Let us know how long it lasts as it will be interesting.
I'll be honest, the stock rifle out the box was grade A crap, my Glock18 AEP shot farther..... Its why I decided to spend the time to modify it, most of the parts are from a stripped CA M24 that I owned about 12 or 13 years ago, fitting the trigger group was a bit of a ball ache but well worth it as it now means my 12 year old son can now pull the trigger on a 500+ fps rifle (not that I let him use it at that power, he still thinks airsoft and Call of Duty are one and the same thing :doh:)

The cylinder and head are 'sort of' better that a stock VSR in design, with the head being more deeply threaded into the cylinder, meaning it will handle more power easier, but the nozzle leaves alot to be desired re design, and the materials the cylinder is made of are utter sh1te!

The rest of the mods are all home crafted, same as all my mods regardless of gun type, the hop is still a work in progress as at the moment as it over hops a .4 while shooting at 350 fps with the LRB running dead straight :nuts:

The brass barrel replaced the shocking ally one, but again its just a 6.08mm x 509mm that I had floating about.

The hop mods I do are a tad extreme and I basicaly am only left with the hop chamber and feed 'U' and is basicaly, to me, just a method of mounting the barrel next to a hop nub efficiently, so the crap that you get with the gun is 90% in the bin anyhow :shrug:

As for the longevity of it...... Its only his start up weapon, so if it lasts 6 to 12 months before it needs replacing or he gets bored and wants to do something else I'll be happy :tup:

@ Dorekido....... it was just shy of being on a par with my VSR, before the latest round of hop mods were done, so around 200 to 250 yards @ 450 fps( with .2s) using .3 ammo.

The one thing its not so hot on is the accuracy of shot, and consistency of fps, but thats mainly my fault as I use his gun as a test bed for stuff I plan to use in my VSRs, the items fitted to the weapon being over a decade old and my reluctance to spend any money on it :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Like some of the others have mentioned, I should try the Long Range Barrel mod. This is in effect a form of hopup and it does not apply a downforce. It's mamking the bb travel along the top of the barrel to which in turn creates some back spin.
Ah, yeh, no, its not like that in the form that we use it,

It was like that in the 'classic airsoft' guns, where it was a form of hop-up in a stepped hop barrel.

We use it to stabalize and equalize the back spin put on by our hop nubs, so that the BB to BB differences in hop application are minimised, there-by making the shot to shot trajectory, not only, similar but also flatter so that you have less need to 'lob' shots on to target, it should fly the better part of straight there :yup:

You can take it to an extreme and gain usefull hop from an LRB, my 350 fps MOD14 EMR used to over hop a .4 and correctly adjusted I could send it out to the same range I could get a .28, but the flight path was completely unrealistic and impossible to use in-game unless I was stood at the top of a building, shooting down......

The absalute maximum you should be using is 3mm of down curve, and at that point you will be generating hop.....

The norm is between 1 and 2mm of down curve using less on longer barrels and slightly more on short ones, but ultimately it needs to be set from gun to gun as set-ups all differ :tup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Had a read of your thread on the LRB. Good. I should try it.
What do you think is the best way to do it for the VSR. To make it adjustable so it can go back to original?

Once I have perfected it, I will add it to my big long chronicle at the start of this thread.
Theres loads of different methods, Cheeseman has worked in conjunction with Hunterseeker5 to produce a wedge, and I use a couple of different methods.

In my case both of my VSRs are Gspecs, 1 has a long inner barrel and 1 is a scout length (minus silencer) on the long I've used 2 different methods, but both were fixed, 1st I used a small length of quite thick ally tube that was threaded to take captured bolts that went through the silencer body that held the barrel at about 1.5mm curve, the method I currently use is a long inner tube that surrounds the inner barrel, this is held in place by a barrel spacer that runs 1/3rd the length of the inner barrel and a wedge at the muzzle end that holds it at about 1.5mm curve.

The scout has a bored out muzzle hole on the outer barrel with a special barrel that runs to the very end of the outer barrel, again using a 1/3rd length barrel spacer at the hop end. The adjustment comes from an M4 bolt that is threaded at the very end of the outer barrel, this can then be adjusted from 0mm to about 4.5mm curve by screwing the bolt in to the required amount, I made a selection of spacers that sit under the barrel, to act as a sort of stop for the barrel muzzle, in 0.5mm thickness'. I'm still perfecting this at the moment as the shorter barrel needs a tad more setting up, but once I've found the sweet spot I'll probably fit a couple of clapping grub screws in place of the spacers situated at 120 degrees to one-another to hold it all in place. I use a similar method to this in my M14 Scout aswell.

The other method I use is on the DE M50, again starting witha 1/3rd length barrel spacer at the hop end, I filed the outer barrel muzzle into an oval, so that the BB doesn't hit it on the way out, I then drilled a hole in the outer barrel that a bolt goes through, this bolt screws into a thick ally sleeve that holds the end of the barrel, when you tighten the bolt, the sleeve, and inner barrel, are pulled down following the oval muzzle hole, if you make the bolt the right length this will lock against the inner barrel and act as a stop to prevent it bouncing around to much and hold the downward curve, and the inner barrel itself acts like a spring to hold the bolt tight in place, once I'd set this up I just glued the bolt head to the outer barrel and now nothings going nowhere.:tup:

It realy is just a matter of what you want to achieve vs whether form over function matters to you vs the engineering skill involved to get the job achieved with the minimum amount of fuss and parts :shrug:

I have found that the wall thickness on outer barrels is thick enough to support a thread and screw/bolt, but it doesn't take much for it to strip so not realy up to constant use, I try when ever posible to reinforce with a matching bolt where and when ever possible, though sometimes it can look down right ugly :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
1. The oring that I changed to get better FPS/compression was just the piston O-ring

2. The VSR already has a cylinder that is way to big for the stanard barrel. By taking off the airbreak you are just increasing the cylinder volume. This will increase the waist air that comes out the end of the barrel once the bb has left. So it will most likely increase the volume of the cracking sound.
If you increase the barrel length, then you can cut the airbreak and it can help increase the FPS. Especially if you can match the right cylinder to barrel volumes.

3. 55 degree bucking does work but you just need to be careful. I have even seen it somewhere else on this site. Check under the heading of "Buckings" about halfway down the page: http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/showthread.php?t=684

4. Filling voids is popular and does work but I would rather keep the gun light. You will most likely find that if you match the cylinder and barrel ratios that this will be better than making your gun heavy. My gun is realy, really quiet. (Need to make sure you have a good foam dampening system too.

5. Trying to match the correct Cylinder to Barrel volumes can also depend on the weight of the bb's but I have found that with my gun I can use anywhere between 0.25gm to 0.36gm and there is not much differnece in sound.
There are a lot of ratios out there that people have tried and may work for them. I have found (in my opinion) that the best length barrel for a standard cylinder is a 550mm barrel. This is a ratio of 2.147. I would not risk a ratio of 2:1 (cylinder:barrel). This would mean you would need a barrel of 580mm long. This will not work as I have tried it. I have used a number of different barrel lengths and 550mm seemed best.
Feel free to try it though as I would be interested in your results.

6. The increase from 525 to 570-580fps was with 0.2gm bb's. The original barrle length was 430mm.
It was very good compression. I have pulled apart my VSR10's a lot and I have only ever been about to get perfect compression like that a few times. (Next time I get such good compression, I am not going to pull it apart so quickly)

7. I would think that foam is better in an silencer than having a plastic lining that has holes. I would think that foam would absorb more sound.

8. AEG barrel mod is good. Real good. :)

9. 0.4gm bb's may outweight the problem with airbubbles but with a 500fps gun the bb's start to lob more. I normally sight my gun in at my rifle range down the back of my propperty which is 50m's long. I found that with 0.36gm bb's, the flight path was more arking. With 0.3gm the bb's are flying near straight to the target.
If you sight a 0.4gm bb onto a target at 50m's it will be more accurate at 50m's compared to a 0.3gm bb. This is because it is not affected by wind and airbubbles so much. So it will travel along the same path (an ark) each time better than the lighter bb. But at other ranges the 0.3gm bb should be more accurate as the bb travels in a straighter line. Not so much of an ark.
1/ This is what we have found, and there is a hell of a lot of difference between manufacturers aswell, a few years back there was a rage about X rings, but after alot of head to head testing we found that there realy wasn't any advantage, depending on what you were looking for, the consesus was an X ring gave more consistency but dragged the fps down due to the extra drag of what was effectively a double O ring :shrug:

2/ Agreed, the cylinder is way to big for the stock barrel, and as Noobie proved in his musings about his BAR-10s, though he approached it from the 'other end' of the thinking by making sure the BB was still in the barrel when the piston hit home.

What needs to be remembered about airbrakes though is.... as soon as you do any porting work to the cylinder head the airbrake is there purely as a volume filler so might aswell be left on to maximise air pushed out the barrel :yup:

3/ This is why I'm doing current testing on the 'J' hop, if you use bathroom grade silicon sealant and a hard rubber you get the best of both worlds.... in theory.... as the silicon is very soft, yet very wear restant ant very stable at the pressures we demand of it, and combined with a hard rubber to maximise sealing at the nozzle you ''should'' end up with the perfect hop.... ish :shrug: The execution of said hop is quite easy, its the getting it right that is the real ball ache, and as I said testing continues as so far results have been impressive but not ideal as yet :shrug:

4/ I always try to fill the voids on my stock with either resin or 2 pack filler as I like the dead feel to the stock when the gun is fired, I can understand the 'keep it light' theory, but I'm a hairy arsed builder during the working week, so weight for me isn't realy an issue unless its my MOD14 then even I have reservations :doh:

5/ I think alot of it is to do with actual individual set up, I mean, My long VSR is quiet, but that has a suppressor fitted, my mates on the other hand runs a 550mm barrel to the end of a PDI barrel, that also runs a bore-up cylinder, with only an Oring glued to the cylinder head as a buffer and, if anything, is a tad quieter than mine :nuts: we both use the same .3 ammo, and are both running at just over 500fps :shrug:

6/ some times its better to follow the 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' philosophy >:D

7/ Actualy the foam and baffel method, with the baffels set at varying distances, breaks up and re-directs the sound wave more effectively than foam alone, as it re-directs the sound back towards the gun and into the foam, while also reducing the sound wave oscilation by forcing it through a smaller hole, rather than relying on the foam alone to adsorb any sound waves that happen to be flying by :shrug: also the more open grained the foam is the better :tup:

8/ Agreed. Its how I got shot of that piece of crap ally barrel out of the DE M50 :yup: but I span mine up in a drill and used a dremel and filr to re-apply the sealing groove in the right place, then just used floss to hold it in place and seal it.

9/ Mate, you realy need to try an LRB out, your gona love it for the flatter flight trajectory it gives :tup: Both me and my mate use .3s exclusively in our BASRs, we tried .4s but here in the UK the light and back ground colours play tricks on the tan colour and you might aswell be using black BBs, Ive only ever found 1 site here that you can see them for over 75% of the shots fired :shrug: Someone realy needs to invent a white .4 or even .36 again if you ask me
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dorekido

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
The video was removed not long after it was posted by the original postee, lord knows why, perhaps because it would be a HUGE slap in the face for all the nay sayers when physical evidence is produced to back up the opposite theory :shrug:

@Vindi- I didnt realize anyone was still doing testing with the j-hop. Tell us how it turns out.
Yup, so far its been hit and miss, the largest issue is I mostly use 6.03 and 6.08 barrels and finding something as a spacer to fill the barrel window up against is nil, so I'm trying different methods from spacers on a 6mm tube to sticking tape in the window as a packer prior to filling.

So far the results are from over hop to over hop by a country mile, but I think this is due to seepage around whatever I use as an infill.

I have had 1 success though, in my scout M14, testing revealed in semi, firing single aimed shots the flight path was consistent, flick it to full auto and the shots spread a little at 2/3rds distance.

I put this down to the silicon sealant I am using was not forming back as fast as rubber would, causing the variation in shots.

This is strangely ideal for the intended purpose of the weapon, as I use it for recon work where single aim shots need to be accurate, but when the brown stuff hits the spinny thing a blast on full auto is less like a lazer beam that the full auto queens seem aspire too, and more like a suppressive blat, enough for me to get their faces in the dirt for me to di-di anyway :shrug:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dorekido
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top