Airsoft Sniper Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In the context of the Action Army VSR-10 chamber and Wolverine BOLT nozzle, regarding physical fit (un-tested).

Macaron with ring: 75 degree, brand new
Macaron without ring: 50 degree, brand new
Monster: ? degree (TBA), brand new
Nine Ball: ? degree, ? years old

I was tuning my rifle yesterday and noticed some things I'd like to share.
  • Chamber tightness: Macaron bucking [with or without ring] fits VERY tightly (cannot be removed without tool), Monster fits reasonably, Nine Ball is almost loose.
  • Engagement with nozzle: Macaron [with ring] contacts nozzle a bit before full engagement of nozzle and holds VERY tightly, Macaron [without ring] holds tightly, Nine Ball contacts nozzle earliest and holds snugly, Monster BARELY touches nozzle with no hold at all.

The comparison isn't without flaw (durometer, wear, etc.), and the rifle was never fired, but personally, these results convince me that the newest Maple Leaf Macarons create - nearly without contest - the best air seal of the options above- I can't imagine the variables which weren't controlled ideally could sway results so greatly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
931 Posts
The seal the bucking makes with the nozzle of the cylinder is pretty much proportional to the wear that it gets. In the same platform, I've had a 60 degree macaron wear out in less than a thousand rounds, a nineball wear out in approximately 5k, and a monster in... well I think the contact mound wore out before the seal lips did. (it was a while) The macarons undoubtedly make great seals, but that doesn't matter if you're chewing through buckings every thousand rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
631 Posts
The seal the bucking makes with the nozzle of the cylinder is pretty much proportional to the wear that it gets. In the same platform, I've had a 60 degree macaron wear out in less than a thousand rounds, a nineball wear out in approximately 5k, and a monster in... well I think the contact mound wore out before the seal lips did. (it was a while) The macarons undoubtedly make great seals, but that doesn't matter if you're chewing through buckings every thousand rounds.
this thing notice me a bit. When I'm using ML monster bucking, test without BB, the airseal between nozzle and bucking is not 100%. But when I fire with BBs, the fps deviation is good ( 4-5 +/- ).
I will test again for 100% sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
This is because monster buckings are slightly too short :hehe:

Try some teflon tape, the thick stuff, around the bucking and barrel. When inserted into the chamber and the spacer is pushed in, the PTFE tape gets squished between the spacer and the bucking. This pushes the bucking rearward, and into the nozzle. This provides maximum seal, with all degrees of buckings.

I like the monster (as you probably know). It's sturdy. I've always managed 100% airseal in every build (and that's quite a few) and they don't wear out very quickly. Whalemash is right, the contact patch will wear before the lips wear out. The bucking I showed in my maple leaf video has 20k+ shots through it and the airseal has never failed me. Granted, that's a 70 degree, but I think that's pretty amazing!

It must be said that I use ASP nozzles though, those are tapered and have an O-ring which significantly reduces bucking wear. But still... with those macarons wearing down in 1k shots... it happens a lot. Kazuchan for example, how many of those buckings has your gun eaten yet? 4 or so? Plenty if I remember correctly.

Honestly, I really like the monster buckings. 100% airseal (if done right!), long life and they perform just as well as the macarons. In my opinion, those were a step backwards...

Where the macarons really shine, is in gbb's. There gripping the nozzle is really important and especially with the anti blow ring, they really excel. But for springers or gnb guns, I'll stick with the monster :yup:

Oh, one more thing, you don't NEED 100% airseal. Small leaks are OK. You can easily get away with 99%. As long as the fps deviation doesn't get too big, it does not really matter. With 100% airseal though I generally get +-2 fps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
631 Posts
It must be said that I use ASP nozzles though, those are tapered and have an O-ring which significantly reduces bucking wear. But still... with those macarons wearing down in 1k shots... it happens a lot. Kazuchan for example, how many of those buckings has your gun eaten yet? 4 or so? Plenty if I remember correctly.
1 autobot, 1 deceptions ( both of 60D ), my 70D is pretty eating ( had to add more pressure on C-clip to bring back 100% airseal ). My monster still nice condition. LOL.

I manage to slightly file the sharp of the ASP/ PPS nozzle for reduce eating....

Will try switch back to monster when I have enough time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reliku

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
Well, I'm well over 5k rounds on an Autobot 70º without any sign of wear whatsoever. It's in a custom build RPK GBB based on the WE system.

"Macaron" series are definitely the best sealing buckings out there, by miles. They make everything work a gazillion times better in a GBBR, providing better recoil, accuracy, range, reliability, and consistency. Everything gets so much better, as they seal great and raelly grabs onto the nozzle, preventing early separation.

In the case of BASR, they work just as well, but durability depends greatly on the diameter and shape of the nozzle. In many, many cases the C-ring is overkill, and actually causes too much friction between the nozzle and the bucking, munching it away in just some hundred shots. And some nozzles are so, so out of spec wide that you just cannot use any of the "best sealing" buckings out there. Yeah, I'm looking at you, EdGI...

So for BASR, I would recommend using the Macaron without the c-ring in most cases, only install the ring if you have a narrow nozzle and find insufficient seal without it.
And avoid / mod the crazy-wide nozzles, or look for an alternative that better fits them. There's a reason EdGI would normally recommend bridged barrels and Modify bucking: his nozzle is just too wide and destroys every other combination :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,599 Posts
So, in the end, it looks like the best sealing buckings all depend on your air nozzle diameter and shape. Obviously buckings with a flatter nub will give more backspin with less down force from the hopup arm and so people should be aiming for a flat nub. I have found this too in my experiments. Different buckings will fit better with different air nozzles. So if you do find that you have a slight air leak this can easily be fixed by covering your air nozzle with heat shrink. (Make sure it is full super glued on)

I am currently running just a standard Action Army bucking (I know it is not a flat nub but it still works really well) with a wide air nozzle (custom made) and I get a 100% air seal. (So putting my finger over the end of the inner barrel and fire. No air leaks out)

Wider air nozzles such as Edgi can also be really good too when pair with a good bucking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,502 Posts
Well, "best sealing bucking" is really 3 different things:

1) Seal at the front end. Most of the commonly used buckings achieve this, and the ones whom don't are normally shimmed with teflon tape so the chamber provides more pressure on it.

2) Seal between the nozzle and the bucking. Which is all about nozzle diameter and shape, and the combination of it with the bucking's nozzle end.
There's just so many different specs on nozzles and buckings, that at the end of the day it's all about just the right combination. I like the Maple Leaf Macaron series for adaptability, as you can use it with or without the C-ring to adapt for narrower or wider nozzles, respectively. But as I said before, some nozzles will destroy them if not moded.
Also some nozzles fixes the issue in alternate ways, like ASP's oring on his cylinder head nozzle, which allows to use not-so-good sealing buckings.

3) "seal" around the bb. And here is where some tricks came in, for instance flat hops and R-hops let so much air escape when set to zero that I've seen it used time and time again to blatantly cheat the chrono.

Personally I think we should be selecting the buckings based on performance, and then the nozzles that best adapt to them. Never the other way around,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good points regarding nozzle. I did notice the Wolverine BOLT nozzle is different from the stock one, but I sort of assumed all aftermarket nozzles would be the same 'ideal' (I know Wolverine's was an improvement)- but I suppose it's certainly true that 'ideal' refers to the marriage of a nozzle and a bucking, and there can be multiple ideals.

Anyway I'll try to come back here down the line and post my results with the 75 degree Macaron with ring- it looks like the best seal, and doesn't seem to be concerningly tight...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Hi, guys. I know this is an old thread, so I hope somebody will answer me.
I'm looking for a ML bucking for my GBB pistol, it's a KJW M9. First I wanted to get the Monster Diamond, then I saw the Autobot is better, then I saw the Decepticon is more accurate and then I found the old version, the Monster Delta - I'm confused.
So you're saying the Macaron wears out quicker, is that for GBB pistols, too?

Should I go with the Decepticon or Monster Delta?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Hi, guys. I know this is an old thread, so I hope somebody will answer me.
I'm looking for a ML bucking for my GBB pistol, it's a KJW M9. First I wanted to get the Monster Diamond, then I saw the Autobot is better, then I saw the Decepticon is more accurate and then I found the old version, the Monster Delta - I'm confused.
So you're saying the Macaron wears out quicker, is that for GBB pistols, too?
Should I go with the Decepticon or Monster Delta?
Monster, Macaron, Hero = bucking release versions from Maple Leaf
Delta, Decepticon, Super = single-point v contact patch pattern (ordered per above release versions)
Diamond, Autobot, Wonder = double-point w contact patch pattern (ordered per above release versions)
Monster = Delta and Diamond
Macaron = Decepticon and Autobot
Hero = Super and Wonder
Internal contact patch wear is based on the ammunition, hop up pressure, and bucking durometer. Chamber 'lip' wear is based on nozzle, bucking tightness around the nozzle, and durometer.
My recommendation would be an Autobot, with or without the ring, as long as your nozzle isn't going to damage buckings somehow (sharp edges, etc.). I personally believe the double-point contact patch of the Diamond/Autobot/Wonder is superior (uniform deformation under pressure as opposed to left/right deformation of the single point). The advertisement that one is better for range and one is better for accuracy is BS marketing. The newer Hero release discontinued the external fin on the bucking which helped lock the bucking in place in the chamber (done in order to fit more chambers)- potentially harmless, but there's no benefit other than versatility.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top