[phridum]

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/NewsDetail?newsID=798

Hot News!!! Airsoft Surgeon's NEW Gas Cartridge for Sniper Rifle system - coming soon! (2007-10-18)

Hot News! Clarence Lai is currently developing a Gas Cartridge for use with a Sniper Rifle system. The Sniper Rifle picture below is modified by Clarence, so that it functions with the up-and-coming Airsoft Surgeon Gas Cartridges. Each cartridge holds one BB and a gas charge, once fired, you pull the bolt handle back and the shell is ejected just like with the real thing - a detail which proves very pleasing when put to practice. The entire charge of gas devoted to powering one BB also spells huge potential for accuracy and range that cannot be delivered by tank-based gas charged systems. The Airsoft Surgeon system is planned for red gas and other higher pressure gases as well. The Gas Cartridge is still currently under development, although it is a functioning state, Clarence is putting the final touches to it.

The release date has yet to be confirmed, so check back for more News, Pictures & Videos at Redwolf!

This is exactly what I've been day dreaming about trying to make. This is potentially the most accurate system available (depending on temperature regularity, but there are ways to collect data for proper compensation) not to mention the most realistic training.

Unfortunately, it's probably going to cost $1,000,000....

 

[mosin]

There has already been gas propelled airsoft sniper rifles before. I believe it was one of the classic weapons (Maruzen Classic I want to say?) that made one that required you pump the air into the round, and then loaded it. Anyways, 4 pumps put you at like 450 FPS, 5 pumps was somewhere around 560, and 6 was 670 something... But those are extinct now anyways.

Good to see that it might come back to light, hopefully it can shoot an 8mm bb so that it has more punching power and distance.

 

[cromag]

The Classic gun that used shells is the Asahi M40.

 

[mosin]

There it is, +1 for good link

 

[phridum]

Man, I had no idea! Too bad they're all but extinct.

We shouldn't have problems with the ATF the same way Japan did, but you never know with those guys...their only job is to harass the American gun "enthusiast". Theoretically, even modifying these replicas to shoot real bullets would still be legal because you can legal manufacture firearms for your own personal use. That is, as long as they still aren't Class III, and you can't ever sell it, only bequeath it.

But I'm pretty stoked. Time to start selling crap on eBay so I can afford it.

 

[woogie]

that is friggen sweet!!!! oh and phridum .... don't let the "man" hear you say that about making a rifle. That is a HUGE no no..

as i am sure that you know

But this thing is sweet... i suppose i should start talking to the wife and getting her to say yes about getting this... any one have any ideas on how to do that???

 

[raptoreye]

I would never want to skirmish with that because you have to collect the shells after every shot. It's just too much of a hassle, so I would only use it for target practice.
Not like I can afford one anyways.

 

[mosin]

I really doubt it would even be much of a problem, simply because if you're laying prone, and you have your spotter chill by your ejection port, he can grab your shells and place them in a pocket, whether it be yours or his.

It's a sweet invention, the only downside is that unless it's a set airflow, and unlike the past model "Asahi M40", it will never be field legal, simply because who's to say when the guy cronos he pumps up the air for the pressure for the shot 3 pumps, putting it at an easy going 400 something, and then after the crono guy says he's good and marks it, the sniper pumps all the shells up 2-3 more times, putting it at a dangerous 600ish FPS.

I see a lot of safety issues coming out of this, but again.. Because airsoft was invented because Japanese officials do not allow civilians to carry live firearms, I think this is a good alternative to have some fun and be really close to the real thing.

 

[phridum]

you have to collect the shells after every shot

That's the beauty of it. Snipers collect their brass for a variety of reasons. You can't leave them behind because it creates a "target indicator". After you bug out, the enemy scouts around and finds your position and learns about where you were, tracks how you got there, sees where you went, and next time they think you're out there, they know how you think.

It's important to not create patterns in your habits and also not leave an impact on your environment. Think of it this way: a ghillie keeps you invisible while your there, good discipline keeps you invisible when your gone.

Another reason is for re-use. It's a well known fact that military brass is the greatest for reloading because it can be used many more times than civilian made brass. A sniper that carries a Lee Loader hand reloading tool, a caliper, a few hundred extra primers and match grade bullets can scavenge powder from enemy bulletts and sustain his ammo much more effectively (and safely) than getting a resupply. And it saves a ton of weight.

Needing to pick up the shells becomes muscle memory. It's also the snipers job. Your spotter is busy keeping an eye on what's going on all around and his ear in the radio. The sniper typically shoots two, loads two, grabs his brass (which lands in the same spot depending on how consistent a shooter you are), and gets back in the glass.

...done with my "kniefing" and back to the actual rifle.

Mosin, I don't know if that same issue would apply to the new Airsoft Surgeon rifle. It looks like it fills up with gas the same way his shotgun shells do. If that's the case, the FPS will be dependent on how much gas the shell holds and you couldn't really overfill it.

On the same token, I've heard that the shotgun shells are a little overpowered and shouldn't really be used to engage people outside of MIL/LE training. So that may be a factor with these too but that's what minimum sniper engagement distance is for.

A person COULD certainly chrono at one FPS and then dishonor himself by increasing it, but that's what airsoft is about. It's a game of honor and you trust them or you don't. The Airsoft Surgeon rifle looks to be a bit of a unique area of the sniper market and, like RaptorEye noted, because you have to pick up shells (and pay a ton of money) many players will be scared off from it. I'd bet that very few people who would cheat the chrono like that would be the type that would own this rifle.

 

[raptoreye]

Phridum does have a good point, it would scare many people off (including me). It's just that it's airsoft and I think there is a boundary between hardcore airsoft and psychological obsession.
Yeah, it makes it feel more "real" but it's just not what I was looking for when I got into airsoft. I hope you know what I mean.

 

[mosin]

Right.. Well, I can honestly say that all of you fine gentleman that post often on this board are honorable people, and I personally would have no problems playing with you guys with these rifles, and if they are as you say Phridum.. Then I have no problems playing with anyone. It's when the kids on the market that feel that "More FPS always means more range" and those are the guys I don't feel safe playing with.

Also, I agree completely with Phridum, on the aspect that says a sniper should pick up his brass. It's something that I do when I shoot real steel bolt actions, and it's something that I wouldn't mind doing in airsoft either.

Airsoft is all about simulating the real thing, and the closer airsoft gets to that, the better. I personally hope that one day we can have airsoft guns that have the ability to hit man sized targets from distances of like 300 yards away. But that's just my thoughts on it.

 

[woogie]

that would be sweet mosin ... to hit a man sized target at 300 yards

Would there be a way to limit how much gas you can fill into each shell or no. That way if you are reloading in the middle of a game, and in a hurry, you can just pump or fill till it stops and don't have to worry about overfilling?

Looks like a really cool rifle though ..... That and no real set price on it either.

What about the type of rifle that it can be used with? I am guessing that he is going to make a custom rifle for it, or is there going to be a drop in kit that you can use for any rifle?

 

[raptoreye]

No, I think it's going to just be the M700 at this time. Maybe if this thing with gas cartridges gets far, there might be other rifles that he will customize it to.
I can tell you that this is very unique and most likely stay that way unless CL lowers the price big time.

 

[mosin]

Well... honestly, I think that these will maybe hover somewhere around the $1000 price tag, and in all honesty... That's not that bad, considering that's about the cost for a well upgraded Maruzen.

My only concern is how much the shells will be, or if they'll offer spare mags, or if you'll have to use a clip to belt feed them into a built in mag, or who knows...? By looking at the picture it seems like it's going to have a built in magwell, but then again.. If you look underneath you can see the opening to what looks like either a compartment (Similiar to the ones on the CA M24 Mil) or it'll be a spot to put a nice 10 round mag.

Personally I think that when this hits the market, I'll most likely look into getting my hands on one, just because of it's uniqueness, as Raptor stated. Also, if it is truely gas, and not a pump system, there is no way you can overfill it, and once it is full gas will shoot out of the sides of the nozzle, so there is no way to overfill. My only concern is harnessing that gas to make sure it keeps at a constant speed, and insure there is no way of tampering with that. Other than that, it looks pretty damn sweet.

 

[phridum]

My understanding from all that I read on Redwolf (couldn't fact check, the site went down or something) was that it was a custom rifle and gas cartridge system.

He took a Remington M700 and customized it to fire airsoft bb's and accept/fire the cartridges. Since he already has the capability of machining the cartridges in a similar manner to his shotgun shells, all he really needs to do is make a sniper rifle that fires them.

This could be relatively easy (in comparison to machining and creating the gas cartridges). You take a stock Remington work the barrel so a tightbore and hop-up unit fit at the end of the chamber. That's it.

The majority of the design comes from shells.

Considerations:
The "primer" needs to release the gas when struck by the firing pin.
The "bullet" area of the cartridge will likely be rubberish to seal off the chamber.
The "bullet" part will probably separate from the shell for filling, loading, and/or cleaning.
Put the hop in the cartridge or in the barrel? In the cartridge would need to be lined up right with each shell (which would be lame), in the barrel is traditional, but working it into a cold forged barrel wouldn't be easy.

and other stuff too I'm sure...I'm going to bed.

 

[sticks13]

If he is using a Tanaka M700 it would be most logical to replace the bolt and magazine, he probably developed a new hop-up too considering his past makes and models.

What I'm wondering is what gasses will the shells use? If any of you have seen that Right Hook Fabrication guy on youtube, you all probably wondered the same thing i did.. Why dont you just make a HPA Gas Mag instead of modifying a Tanaka mag. I know HPA will probably be a no go considering the necessary Metal that need to be put between you and the air.

If i only had a grand......

sticks

 

[phridum]

"The Airsoft Surgeon system is planned for red gas and other higher pressure gases as well." So...propane, green gas, red gas...whatever uses that filler system.