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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
The stock piston is APS2, but not 90 degrees like I understand the rest are. Thus, the piston is a custom 45 degree piston, designed to fit in the APS2 cylinder. The only successful changeouts I'm aware of were APS2 pistons that were shaved down to 45 degrees.

The stock piston and trigger unit have had no problems with two SP170 springs for over several months now, and a 500fps (supposedly) spring before that. Upgrading this is irrelevant at this point, given that two SP170 springs have proven incapable of bringing the power up.

The issue is that the gun does not produce more than 2J of energy, despite improvents to every area that would impact this. I realize that since the gun is APS2 spec cylinder, shortening the barrel to 430mm from 465mm probably lost me some power, but surely full seal and a beefy spring would substantially offset this? Apparently not.

Previously, the stock oring was insufficient to prevent leak by with my original SP170. With the new oring (Same size best I can tell) the piston is pretty snug. I wouldn't say it is hard to move but it does give full seal like it is supposed to.

The only other thing I can figure is that the cylinder head has not been aligned with the barrel correctly, which caused me to think my previous barrel was bent (it was, but the new one has the same problem)*. I'm going to rectify that, play a game or two with it, and maybe after that toy with piston weights until I purchase a SSG96 or SSG10A2.

As it stands, the gun's stock performance at $80 makes for a great starter gun, but despite dropping $170 into it at this point it shoots only marginally better than it did before. Why I cannot get the energy higher than 2J is beyond me, but from what I've seen nobody else has managed this either.

*Maybe that's not entirely true. I put a second o-ring in a extra groove for testing purposes. It may be causing extra drag. Still, aren't 170s supposed to give 3.3J min? Surely that's not causing a full joule to be lost, especially since this was not an issue previously
 

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Yeah, that was an extreme downer, same with the barrel being a slip fit with no threads at all.
Tbh the Double Bell VSR-10 I had for a week had the same slip fit outer barrel, but at least that had a metal piston, full piston seal, 500 FPS, and a nice bolt pull with a GOD DAMN METAL RECEIVER.
For the $130 or whatever it was, it's definitely worth paying the extra $30 for it due to the stainless cylinder and all the other things that made it better.
Most of the review s online state the receiver is metal wonder if they changed it to plastic recently?

Tankcom what's your reciever made from?
 

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The stock piston is APS2, but not 90 degrees like I understand the rest are. Thus, the piston is a custom 45 degree piston, designed to fit in the APS2 cylinder. The only successful changeouts I'm aware of were APS2 pistons that were shaved down to 45 degrees.

The stock piston and trigger unit have had no problems with two SP170 springs for over several months now, and a 500fps (supposedly) spring before that. Upgrading this is irrelevant at this point, given that two SP170 springs have proven incapable of bringing the power up.

The issue is that the gun does not produce more than 2J of energy, despite improvents to every area that would impact this. I realize that since the gun is APS2 spec cylinder, shortening the barrel to 430mm from 465mm probably lost me some power, but surely full seal and a beefy spring would substantially offset this? Apparently not.

Previously, the stock oring was insufficient to prevent leak by with my original SP170. With the new oring (Same size best I can tell) the piston is pretty snug. I wouldn't say it is hard to move but it does give full seal like it is supposed to.

The only other thing I can figure is that the cylinder head has not been aligned with the barrel correctly, which caused me to think my previous barrel was bent (it was, but the new one has the same problem)*. I'm going to rectify that, play a game or two with it, and maybe after that toy with piston weights until I purchase a SSG96 or SSG10A2.

As it stands, the gun's stock performance at $80 makes for a great starter gun, but despite dropping $170 into it at this point it shoots only marginally better than it did before. Why I cannot get the energy higher than 2J is beyond me, but from what I've seen nobody else has managed this either.

*Maybe that's not entirely true. I put a second o-ring in a extra groove for testing purposes. It may be causing extra drag. Still, aren't 170s supposed to give 3.3J min? Surely that's not causing a full joule to be lost, especially since this was not an issue previously
What BB weight are you using? 430mm should be .45.or .48g I think, anything lighter and it's wasted air volume.

Also the stock piston is so light I would assume more weight would only help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
What BB weight are you using? 430mm should be .45.or .48g I think, anything lighter and it's wasted air volume.

Also the stock piston is so light I would assume more weight would only help.
Tested both .4g and .45g bbs. Using the latter, anything past 250ft requires a lot of hop. A half setting on my Mr Hop, the bbs will drop 20-30ft starting around 265ft. Crank that up and they might reach 310ft - maybe.

As for the piston - that was my thought too, but so far it has only made things worse. I've yet to get anything but reverse joule creep out of the gun. All of the springs tested with added piston weight (including the first 170) were shooting in the 400-460fps range with .2g bbs, so it appears they were not generating enough energy to compensate for the added weight.
 

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Tested both .4g and .45g bbs. Using the latter, anything past 250ft requires a lot of hop. A half setting on my Mr Hop, the bbs will drop 20-30ft starting around 265ft. Crank that up and they might reach 310ft - maybe.

As for the piston - that was my thought too, but so far it has only made things worse. I've yet to get anything but reverse joule creep out of the gun. All of the springs tested with added piston weight (including the first 170) were shooting in the 400-460fps range with .2g bbs, so it appears they were not generating enough energy to compensate for the added weight.
Your using a vsr spec spring aren't you?

Might be why power is hitting a limit around 2j, aps2 springs are longer to keep the piston under a more even amount of pressure, action army t96 springs are 7/11mm so would work, aps2/t96 rifles can reach high joules so the issue appears to be the spring used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Your using a vsr spec spring aren't you?

Might be why power is hitting a limit around 2j, aps2 springs are longer to keep the piston under a more even amount of pressure, action army t96 springs are 7/11mm so would work, aps2/t96 rifles can reach high joules so the issue appears to be the spring used.
I was wondering about this. How long are APS2 springs? The VSR10 Laylax SP170 spring is about an inch longer than the stock spring prior to install, and the same length after break-in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
An unused action army m150 for type96 is 23.8cm. Luckily I have a spare one in my gun bag.
Given the unused VSR SP170 spring is about 25-26cm new, this could explain why it would be shooting in the 450-480 FPS range, right? I have some DIY FPS adjuster rings I purchased that are 1cm long a piece - thinking maybe that'd help bring the power up now that I have a good seal. I'm hoping the reason this didn't work before is because I didn't have a piston seal previously.

I removed the second oring because it made for a very tight fit, adding a lot of resistance. I now have a very small amount of leakby, but with that and bring the piston weight back down I have gained a marginal amount of range back. I suspect I'm back in the 2J range again - I'll know for sure around Christmas when I borrow my brother's chrono.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Well, my suspicions were correct. Brand new SP170 gave 480 fps. I put one of my spacers in and got it up to 505 fps. I knew based on previous experience a second spacer would not latch, but desperate to get up to 530, I put another one in anyway - no avail.

The spring is already wearing in - it is barely shooting 2J with .2g bbs and 1.5J with .4g bbs, even with a spacer in now.

Varying piston weight (no weight, 1 wrap of lead tape, 2 wraps) made no appreciable difference to the lighter ammo and had a negative effect on the heavier ammo.

If I could find a APS2 11mm/8mm spring powerful enough I think this rifle would sing. Unfortunately, I cannot find such an elusive thing, and thus the power is capped in the 450fps range. The only upgrades that have made a difference is the bucking and spring. Other items are compatible but not worth the cost or effort.

I maintain this is an excellent budget rifle, great for beginners or those wanting to test the waters. I would recommend a bucking upgrade and spring upgrade - nothing else. That would put you at roughly $110 USD for a rifle that can fling .4g bbs flat to 250ftish.

For those wanting a rifle they can build up to 550fps and/or joule creep, this is not the rifle for you.

Now to decide if I'm buying a SSG10A2 or SSG96....
 

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Action army make an M170 type 96 spring, haven't seen any in UK but that's likely due to our 2.3j limit so anything over an m150 is overkill.

I do think their is a place in the market for a cheap, taster rifle as the amount of people that buy snipers and sell them once they realised sniping isn't for them.

Currently it seems to me (and this is my own opinion)

Budget/just want to test if I like shooting slow and will consider buying a better rifle if I like it
-M40
-A&K M24
-(Honourable mention MB02/03, just don't like you are tied to AirsoftPro parts as not available in every country but great for Europe)

Upgrade base
-VSR
-TYPE 96

Mid budget good
-Nov SSG's

Money is no problem
-Silverbacks
 

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Well this thread has become another "book" in my Mod the Double Eagle M62 / M40A3 mod bible.

Thanks all posters for your thoughts and experimenting to save future "Budget Chinese Sniper Rifle" experimenters some grief ..... and money.

PS - my 3 week old (January 25th 2022) Matrix/Double Eagle branded M40A3 / M62 (Evike LA CA, uses both model names interchangeable at the drop of an advert) has a STEEL Receiver, no plastic here. The Evike store Tech said these was newly made in late 2021 and received at their Alhambra CA warehouse back in November 2021. I got it for $72.09 on a flash sale, free shipping since I was buying some other stuff over their threshold.

Just for reference, this is the one I bought: I ordered the Matrix/Double Eagle "USMC M40A3" (no scope or bipod), but a M62 box was delivered. Evike said they are the same, in fact Matrix /DE will no longer using the "M40A3" model name.
Attached:
Order
Current listing at Evike (still calling it a USMC M4A3).
And the box cover labeled M62
Profile shots

Rectangle Font Art Magenta Number


Font Line Parallel Screenshot Gun barrel

Rectangle Gadget Font Electronic device Display device

White Air gun Black Trigger Machine gun
 

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I have an ASG M40A3 sportline... Will the cylinder hold a m170 Spring?
Also I already installed the AA hopchamber and my nozzle barely reaches the hopchamber... I actually have to hold the cylinder upfront so it shoots with all the power, if I dont do this I get inconcistent FPS... any tips?
 

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I have an ASG M40A3 sportline... Will the cylinder hold a m170 Spring?
Also I already installed the AA hopchamber and my nozzle barely reaches the hopchamber... I actually have to hold the cylinder upfront so it shoots with all the power, if I dont do this I get inconcistent FPS... any tips?
I installed the
from Evike.com in my Matrix/Double Eagle "USMC M40A3" (aka M62), which is identical and the same as your ASG (same factory) and was popping MORE than 550fps with 3.2gr BB's, the bolt pull was getting tiring too (way too hard) and Evike Tech Spec warned it could start breaking parts; so I put the stock spring back BUT added 2 appropriate diameter soft felt 1/4 inch spacers. I am getting 525 fps with the 3.2gr BB's, so basically the S&T spring was a waste of money. The stock barrel on my Matrix/Double Eagle "USMC M40A3" mics at 6.05mm, which surprised me how mildly tight it was from the factory! I am ordering a ASG (branded) 6.03mm M40A3 Brass Barrel to try just for kicks, can't hurt, only $18 bucks USD!
ASG Factory Upgrade Tightbore Inner Barrel for McMillan M40A3 Sportline Airsoft Sniper Rifles ID: 11924 (BRL-ASG-18471
If it improves the already Awesome accuracy out to 225 ft, I will be stoked beyond belief. Who needs an absurdly over-priced cult-fetish Norvishitsky sniper rifle that costs 4 time the price as the Matrix/ASG !?
 

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My two issues with the rifle were the nozzle and the hop setup, as the nozzle was too short and placed the BB in a bad place leading to sub optimal accuracy and horrible air seal, and the bucking and chamber were their own type of semi proprietary design and dimensions, along with the barrel.

If you are able to install the barrel and possibly lap it, do that, and if you can somehow either push the chamber back or slide the cylinder/nozzle forward that would be quite good too.
Idk if you've seen the thread I did on the M40A3, but it's in my signature and has a number of other things that I suggest you do.
 

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I installed the
from Evike.com in my Matrix/Double Eagle "USMC M40A3" (aka M62), which is identical and the same as your ASG (same factory) and was popping MORE than 550fps with 3.2gr BB's, the bolt pull was getting tiring too (way too hard) and Evike Tech Spec warned it could start breaking parts; so I put the stock spring back BUT added 2 appropriate diameter soft felt 1/4 inch spacers. I am getting 525 fps with the 3.2gr BB's, so basically the S&T spring was a waste of money. The stock barrel on my Matrix/Double Eagle "USMC M40A3" mics at 6.05mm, which surprised me how mildly tight it was from the factory! I am ordering a ASG (branded) 6.03mm M40A3 Brass Barrel to try just for kicks, can't hurt, only $18 bucks USD!
ASG Factory Upgrade Tightbore Inner Barrel for McMillan M40A3 Sportline Airsoft Sniper Rifles ID: 11924 (BRL-ASG-18471
If it improves the already Awesome accuracy out to 225 ft, I will be stoked beyond belief. Who needs an absurdly over-priced cult-fetish Norvishitsky sniper rifle that costs 4 time the price as the Matrix/ASG !?
Ok so I will install a M150 spring for longevity...


Also I need help... I installed the Action Army VSR10 Hopchamber, maple leaf bucking, and precision inner barrel.
The gun is shooting way low and very unconsistent... I checked and noticed that the nozzle barely reaches the chamber. If I keep the bolt pressing foward while I shoot I get better results. Anyway to fix this or any cylinder head with longer nozzle I could use?
 

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Ok so I will install a M150 spring for longevity...


Also I need help... I installed the Action Army VSR10 Hopchamber, maple leaf bucking, and precision inner barrel.
The gun is shooting way low and very unconsistent... I checked and noticed that the nozzle barely reaches the chamber. If I keep the bolt pressing foward while I shoot I get better results. Anyway to fix this or any cylinder head with longer nozzle I could use?
Who's barrel did you use? Can you insert a link to the exact one you used?? You may have bought one that wasn't meant for the ASG M40A3.

As for your problem with the Hopup Chamber and Bucking, "SiliconeSword", the post above yours, would be a far better expert on that. I haven't replaced either of those, as I have had no problems with the factory units. ..... at least not yet!
 

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Who's barrel did you use? Can you insert a link to the exact one you used?? You may have bought one that wasn't meant for the ASG M40A3.

As for your problem with the Hopup Chamber and Bucking, "SiliconeSword", the post above yours, would be a far better expert on that. I haven't replaced either of those, as I have had no problems with the factory units. ..... at least not yet!
Heres the link...

Im pretty sure is not the barrel is that the nozzle doesnt reach/seal the chamber as is suppose to...
 

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Hello guys, i am new to this forum and i am searching information about double eagle gun m61/2.

I currently own a m61. From what i read so far im very disappointed with this gun cause too many parts are not compatible with each other.

This makes me to believe its a hybrid weapon.

I would like to ask you, is there piston guide, piston and trigger set to replace?

Regards,
 

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I don't personally know about the Double Eagle "m61/2." and it's kind of stupid for them to make up a fictitious military designation M61, because the real "M61" is a Vulcan Mini-gun, not a Sniper Rifle. -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan

The M62 in a "sporter stock" is called a M40A1, the current Marine and Army Sniper version in the "McMillian" Target stock is called the M40A3. The M40A2 was a synthetic camouflaged version of the wooden A1 stock. In the US Military (and all the countries that buy from us U.S.), there is no such thing as a "M61 anything", except as the Vulcan Mini Gun. Leave it to the Commie Chinese to make up BS designations.

(I was in the USAF Vietnam era, stayed until 1989, in the 27th Special Operation Wing. We had and still have USAF Special Ops ground troops like the Navy Seal's and Marine Rangers, called "PJ's" (Rescue and Recon), Spl Ops Air Command and Recon, USAF Commando's, and Spl Ops Sniper Squads. The USAF used Winchester M70's, instead of Remington 700's (M40) and M14A3's for Snipers)

That being said, I seriously doubt that your "m61/2" is anything different from the Double Eagle, aka Matrix, M40A3 or M62A3, other yours having the A1 or A2 "Sporter Stock" like a civilian Remington 700 wold have.

I have a Double Eagle "Marine M40A3" aka M62A3 and it is Completely upgradeable!! You can change everything in it - barrel, chamber, bucking, trigger assembly, bolt, bolt spring, nearly everything! That clown Norvirsch, or however you spell it, buys his from the same China factory these come from, and has them add a slightly tighter barrel, better chamber and increases the price 200% so you can be in the Norvicult brand Cult. Made in Germany or Austria, my a$$. Just like Umarex is also made in China or Taiwan.

Your Double Eagle M40A1 is the same as the equivalent Golden Eagle, ASG, Matrix, etc etc etc...... same factory in China.

"Action Army" brand, are probably the most popular upgrades for these rifles, as long as they are VSR Spec parts, you are good to go as we say in the US Military..
 
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