[jdangit]

As much as I hate to bring up another topic with barrels I have a few questions that I would like help tackling. Now before I get shut down, I did a lot of searching and came up with unsatisfying results. So here comes the questions, and hopefully you guys can help.

First question:
Does the barrel length effect your accuracy at all?

-I have heard all kinds of things saying that the length of the barrel means nothing, but the FPS and Bore of the barrel is all that matter.. (i.e.) A bone stock Tokyo Marui MP5K has the same and accuracy as a bone stock Tokyo Marui L96AWS...

Second question:
Does the FPS on your weapon predict the range? or can you gain a bit from an extra long barrel?

-obviously a 600fps gun will out range a 150fps gun any day using the same type of hop up unit on the same gun... (i.e.) if I put a 700mm barrel in the 150fps gun will it have more range? or will the higher fps determine this?

Third question:
Is there a happy medium between the 2?

The reason I ask is because here locally we have an airsoft tech who makes the PCT 6.01mm barrels and he swears up and down that the tightest barrel with the longest barrel and the highest fps will create untouchable range...

Thanks,
JD

 

[inthetallgrass]

As much as I hate to bring up another topic with barrels I have a few questions that I would like help tackling. Now before I get shut down, I did a lot of searching and came up with unsatisfying results. So here comes the questions, and hopefully you guys can help.

First question:
Does the barrel length effect your accuracy at all?

-I have heard all kinds of things saying that the length of the barrel means nothing, but the FPS and Bore of the barrel is all that matter.. (i.e.) A bone stock Tokyo Marui MP5K has the same and accuracy as a bone stock Tokyo Marui L96AWS...

Second question:
Does the FPS on your weapon predict the range? or can you gain a bit from an extra long barrel?

-obviously a 600fps gun will out range a 150fps gun any day using the same type of hop up unit on the same gun... (i.e.) if I put a 700mm barrel in the 150fps gun will it have more range? or will the higher fps determine this?

Third question:
Is there a happy medium between the 2?

The reason I ask is because here locally we have an airsoft tech who makes the PCT 6.01mm barrels and he swears up and down that the tightest barrel with the longest barrel and the highest fps will create untouchable range...

Thanks,
JD

Hav you not read the other posts. Look at my second last post on Barrel length : end of the line

It proves that a barrel over whatever length (A good bit over the stock length) is less accurate.

Also length is not the most important part for accuracy, the quality is. (He is probably telling you the longer the better to sell you a more expensive barrel)

The FPS will increase with a 6.01 (By about 30 usually) but the accuracy will decrease due to there being a lack of an air cushion around it like in a 6.03 would have.

The best to me would be a 499mm highly precise 6.03. Non Teflon coated so you can polish it yourself.

FPS is over-rated though. With my 328fps gun I can adjust my hop to throw a BB to over 200ft. You won't feel it but it's do-able. The only reason why people have much higher FPS guns is to increase accuracy at these ranges and so people can actually feel getting hit.

Finally a longer barrel (600mm or the sort) does not increase fps. Only in gas guns does it increase FPS because of the gas expanding further.

As I said read my second last post in "Barrel length: End of the line" -I prove my point.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

As much as I hate to bring up another topic with barrels I have a few questions that I would like help tackling. Now before I get shut down, I did a lot of searching and came up with unsatisfying results. So here comes the questions, and hopefully you guys can help.

First question:
Does the barrel length effect your accuracy at all?

-I have heard all kinds of things saying that the length of the barrel means nothing, but the FPS and Bore of the barrel is all that matter.. (i.e.) A bone stock Tokyo Marui MP5K has the same and accuracy as a bone stock Tokyo Marui L96AWS...

Second question:
Does the FPS on your weapon predict the range? or can you gain a bit from an extra long barrel?

-obviously a 600fps gun will out range a 150fps gun any day using the same type of hop up unit on the same gun... (i.e.) if I put a 700mm barrel in the 150fps gun will it have more range? or will the higher fps determine this?

Third question:
Is there a happy medium between the 2?

The reason I ask is because here locally we have an airsoft tech who makes the PCT 6.01mm barrels and he swears up and down that the tightest barrel with the longest barrel and the highest fps will create untouchable range...

Thanks,
JD

In general, don't listen to other places. Yes, many of them have the same information that people here have, but it gets buried and mixed in with all sorts of garbage theories.

The simple answer to your questions is: yes. Greater FPS = greater range. However, range =/= accuracy; and thus FPS =/= accuracy. With things they way they are now, you have to sacrifice some FPS and some range for accuracy; we attempt to account for this by modifying hop ups and using heavier BBs. So with this said:

1. Yes, barrel length effects accuracy. There are more than enough threads here that go into this. It is generally accepted that the "sweet spot" is between 455 and 500mm. This will depend on your C:B ratio and compression.

2. Yes/no. The barrel length does effect the range, but not really as much as a well tuned hop up and the right size barrel matched with the right BB. Per. your example, a 150fps gun with a 'stock' short barrel might see improvement with a longer barrel, but only because the compression would be better for that cylinder and piston set up. Once you extend any barrel beyond the optimum C:B ratio your range gain will be minimal and it could actually hurt your accuracy if you go much longer over that.

3. Yes. within the information on this forum you can find a medium for your set up. The reason this is a hobby is that it is incredibly in-precise (hopefully that will change) and you have to play around, what works for other people or even other people with the 'exact' gun you have, may not work for you.

 

[inthetallgrass]

FPS only increases range to an extent. It also makes it less accurate (I am talking about over 550 really)

 

[awagg]

Basically summed it all up there. However, for gas rifles, this changes. The longer barrel will help the fps skyrocket, and their will still be an air cushion for the bb. So, longer barrels are better with gas rifles, just don't go over board, because that air cushion will run out some time, and this is when you run into accuracy problems. Listening to local techs that also sell product, is just like listening to manufacturers reviews... they sugar coat the crap, or just have no clue. It's easy to say that a tighter bore, longer barrel will have better accuracy, because in the eyes of the inexperienced, it seems true, and very feasible. However, sadly, you can't just go with a monster barrel and expect great accuracy. As a rule of thumb, go with around what the stock rifle comes with. Longer might/will give you accuracy problems.

On another note, I really which that there was a formula to see what the correct barrel length is for your cylinder volume, because this would be sweet. Just plug and go. But until someone does some research to find when the air cushion runs out, we won't know, so just go with a stock barrel, more or less.

 

[becklr1]

Actually 1.2-1.4 is the sweet spot for cylinder volume to barrel volume. More will not hurt really but it is unneeded. I have a different theory about tight barrels and cylinder volume but there are other variables people overlook. But we will see how right I am in a few months now. In general 1.2-1.4 is the cylinder to barrel volume. I prefer 1.4 over 1.2.

Been using this calculator for 18 months. Plug in radius and length for barrel or cylinder. Typically do cylinder and then divide by 1.4 then do barrel length volume check until you hot that number. http://www.online-calculators.co.uk/volumetric/cylindervolume.php

 

[awagg]

Base

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Thats right, If you are doing an AEG the first upgrade should be a full cylinder body over a bore up. You gain SO much more cylinder space from a full cylinder that it almost makes the bore up pointless. In the case of a springer you are pretty much stuck with the stock cylinder volume, which is why pairing your barrel is so important.

Also, as far as gas goes, I firmly believe that HPA is the best way to go, and I don't even have an Airsoft gas set up yet. The only advantage that spring has over gas is that it is completely internalized... for now

 

[awagg]

Would it be feasible to have a HPA set up that shoots the air directly into the mag? Think of it like green gas, and how you put the gas into the magazine. This would make it a little more consistent without the fast expanding CO2 or propane. You would just have to have some sort of pressure release in the mag, so you get the same mag pressure every time, to make it consistent. But then the pressure would go down every shot? Yeah... probably wouldn't work. Nevermind

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Are you talking about having an expansion chamber in the magazine? Classic airsoft ran HPA through the magazine in some cases. With modern designs though it would be easiest to internalize the expansion chamber and just use normal AEG magazines. The reason being that HPA doesn't really need an expansion chamber since there is no liquid, CO2 does need an expansion chamber for better results, but if you have a good set up at the regulator, you shouldn't have any liquid in there anyway, so you can keep the expansion chamber minimal... the size of a film canister... if anyone remembers what that is

 

[dhm078]

The sweet spot for cylinder-barrel volume ratios is really not constant. It varies with your ammo weight. Heavier ammo tends to like more cylinder volume. So does high FPS (case in point; I put an M150 in an AEG with a 300mm inner barrel and couldn't get the power past 500fps until I used a full cylinder).

And the reason that wider barrels have the potential to be more accurate is that in tighter barrels, the bb is more likely to contact the sides as it travels along the center, imparting off-axis spin. It's not because of an air-cushion. In a perfect system of perfectly shaped bbs, a perfectly straight and diameter-consistent barrel, and the perfect spin imparted by the hop-up, and perfect air-flow and barrel stabilization, a 6.01 would be no more or less accurate than a 6.03. But it will never be a perfect system, so using a slightly wider inner barrel allows us to somewhat mitigate the results of such imperfections.

The "sweet spot" in length at around the mid 400s is because by this point the bb has sufficient length to be stabilized, but it isn't so long that there is too much opportunity for off-axis spin to be imparted by the barrel.

I agree HPA is the way to go for gas. The variation of vapor pressure with traditional gases with temperature just makes them less consistent about velocity. HPA essentially fixes that, and is more consistent than CO2 (and has none of the risk of a pressure spike from liquid CO2 getting in the line).

 

[bobgengeskahn]

And the reason that wider barrels have the potential to be more accurate is that in tighter barrels, the bb is more likely to contact the sides as it travels along the center, imparting off-axis spin. It's not because of an air-cushion. In a perfect system of perfectly shaped bbs, a perfectly straight and diameter-consistent barrel, and the perfect spin imparted by the hop-up, and perfect air-flow and barrel stabilization, a 6.01 would be no more or less accurate than a 6.03. But it will never be a perfect system, so using a slightly wider inner barrel allows us to somewhat mitigate the results of such imperfections.

Not to come down on you too hard, but I am just wondering what your thinking is on this/if you have any ballistic trials to back this up. The reason I ask is because this has been a heeded topic for a long time, and given the advent and results gained from TK twist and Falcon barrels it has come to be generally accepted that there is an air cushion and that ~450mm gives time for the cushion to stabilize. (each of the above mentioned barrels operates best below and above ~350fps respectively due to the different designs.)

I see you are relatively new here (again, not talking down to you), but people around here are more than willing to discuss these things civilly, especially these days with all the talk that has been going on.

 

[dhm078]

I am indeed new here. But not to mechanics of airsoft. I have been teching guns of every type for something like three and a half years now. I also spend a lot of time on AirsoftMechanics (ASM). On ASM, what I described is the commonly accepted theory there, and has been the main accepted theory there for quite a while. I do not know precisely what you refer to with regard to "ballistics trials", but what I described is the general conclusion arrived at on ASM from a variety of tests including analysis of wear patterns and analysis of the barrel after being internally coated with ink to see when and how the bb is coming into contact with the barrel. There is also supposedly someone who used clear acrylic barrels and black bbs and a high speed camera to record the behavior of a bb inside a barrel, though I haven't seen this footage myself. Also, someone on ASR a while back looked at the airflow patterns in a barrel with a diameter of 6.01 vs a standard 6.08 using a computer model. I don't claim to be an expert, and I admit my post had too much of a "this is how it is, period" vibe, and for that I apologize. This "air-cushion" theory, now that I think about it, makes some sense with the theory I described, in that the bb, provided it has a spin in the proper direction by the hop-up, is pushed to the top of the barrel and centered, which is essentially how the bb becomes stabilized as I did before. But it is the degree to which this is actually affecting accuracy that I'm not sure I can agree with. Perhaps slows the stabilization of the bb because the lack of air is making the hop-up less effective at stabilizing the bb, but the fact remains that once the bb leaves the barrel, it is affected only by its exit vector and the spin already on it. So assuming the length of the barrel is enough for the bb to stabilize, the "air-cushion" as I am seeing it should have no impact on the accuracy. But that doesn't change the fact that hop-ups and barrels aren't a perfect system, or that every time the bb comes into contact with anything including the barrel wall, its spin is affected. And given that it is a non-perfect system, it is inevitable that it will contact the wall of the barrel in a place other than the direct top or bottom of the barrel, which will affect the direction of the spin and thus the precision the barrel produces. Given the model of the hop-up directing air-flow around the bb in the barrel, or as you may call it, an "air-cushion", the bb will be relatively centered along the top of the barrel (as shown by the aforementioned boroscope analyses), but the fact that it is not perfect means it will deviate, and come into contact with another part of the barrel which will affect the spin direction. But the nature of it being along the top and simply moving toward one side or the other in its deviation suggests that a slightly wider barrel will produce greater accuracy because the bb's deviations remain on surfaces at a shallower angle than in the tighter barrel. The faster stabilization also means less off-axis spin is imparted due to contact with the barrel prior to the bb becoming centered.

I hope I'm making sense. That's the model that seems to make the most sense to me. Again, I do not claim to be an expert. Part of the issue anyway is how difficult it is to actually run a controlled test. There are far too many variables, such as bb shape, bb diameter, bb weight distribution, barrel straightness, barrel diameter consistency, barrel friction coefficients, and of course variations in the output of the hop-up, to really prove the exact behavior of the bb in a barrel.

For now, I suppose we will have to simply agree that tighter does not mean better. At least we agree on the barrel length issue.

One thing I do dispute, is the supposed magic of the TK twist. I have really yet to see any recorded, controlled testing of such barrels that really show them to do anything that can't be done with a good standard barrel and a good hop-up setup and good bbs. To be clear, I am not saying they don't work; I am merely saying I have yet to see anything that shows them to really be anything special, either from others or from my own admittedly limited testing with them. Again, unless the differences are enormous, which I have thus far not seen them to be, actually testing is quite difficult to do for the reasons mentioned before. I suppose time and more testing will tell.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Hm, very interesting. I have been on ASM on and off for a while, admittedly I don't typically spend too much time there since most of the forum gets lost in electronics and how to make an AEG shoot faster; which isn't a bad thing, its just not my bag. Although I do peak in once in a while to see how that new sniper sub forum is going

As far as the barrel theory goes, I see what you are saying and I do believe that I have heard that before and it does make sense; however I think the crux lies in what you mentioned about exit vectors. I would theorize that in an accurate, smooth barrel, the BB has 'separated' from the top of the barrel by the end, while retaining back spin and is pushed out by the remaining expanding air in the barrel...

In other words as the air is expanding the BB is pushed to the top per the hop up and higher air pressure forced to escape from 'under' the BB due to the hop. By the time the BB reaches the 'sweet spot' in the barrel length it should, ideally, be centered in the barrel again due to the surrounding pressure and back spin reaching an 'equilibrium' so to say.

Now in reference to the end of the barrel: The crown is far more important than most people in general think. On a real steel, a good crown v. a poor crown can throw off your shots by 3-4MOA or more, and thats with rifling and the whole 9 yards. On airsoft I would argue that it is more important due to the simple fact that the air pushing the BB, the back spin and the consistency (or lack there of) of the escaping gas when the BB exits is the only thing we have going for us. So to think of barrels like the Falcon barrel as a really complex crowning, it starts to make sense.

I'm not trying to say I know everything thats going on with this stuff, just throwing my 2c out there and mostly just thinking out loud

 

[becklr1]

And the reason that wider barrels have the potential to be more accurate is that in tighter barrels, the bb is more likely to contact the sides as it travels along the center, imparting off-axis spin. ........

This is the commonly held belief. Why do some shots go dead center and some fly off to the right or left 12 inches I wonder? Answer that and you can solve "the" problem. If it was as simple as air cushion there would be no random fliers. Ever. It would all ways be consistent every time for everybody and there would only be one size barrel as everyone would figure out what really works in terms if bb to barrel size. Beyond that there is only anecdotal evidence which is at best corollary in nature that barrel size is the key to anything other than creating confusion.

There is also supposedly someone who used clear acrylic barrels and black bbs and a high speed camera to record the behavior of a bb inside a barrel, though I haven't seen this footage myself.

That would be me and I did not use clear barrels I used a PDI 6.01 330mm and an Edgi 500mm barrel with .32 Bioval bb's with black dots imparted with a sharpie to see what spin is happening on the BB when it exits.

The question is why is the spin different between different shots? And it is not the .3 the thickness of a sheet of printer paper variance between bb's nor is it the air cushion not is it the imperfection in the barrel for if it were it would always cause the same effect which we all know is not the case.

There is merit to an air cushion if course but if it was just air cushion using a small bb with a 6.01 would yield better results than a 6.03 and a bigger bb. It does not any more than simply using a smaller bb with a tighter barrel would be the exact same as a bigger barrel and a bigger bb.

If it was JUST air cushion someone would have found the secret ratio and we would all be using that. There would be no discussion about it. Yet, there is. Lots of it.

Diameter and FPS - yes if you pick the right BB.
Diameter and accuracy - I do not think it is that cut and dry.

No.... I submit there must be more to it. People tend to build an argument based on a premise. Of course if the premise is wrong or not precise enough you get all kinds of arguments

The problem with precision if of course a round projectile. Beyond that what causes inconsistency? It is not a barrel diameter issue per say. There is another variable. I believe at least. It is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. I believe. I believe it so much I am building a different design to prove out my theory.

I am of course possibly wrong but I know a bigger barrel is not better. It is not worse either. It depends on the BB and other factors. I measured bb variation between brands 4x bigger than the .02 difference between 6.01 and 6.03.

I am not saying I know everything, I do not, I do not have all the answers either. But, barrel cushion and barrel diameter and gas slotting all kind of feel like people treating symptoms to me in addressing accuracy and consistency. Perhaps I am wrong, it just seems that way.

 

[inthetallgrass]

Well said everyone even with the conflict. I say we need to make a whole new system if we want accuracy. Rifling etc.

 

[dhm078]

Although I do peak in once in a while to see how that new sniper sub forum is going

There are some major threads all about inner barrels, bbs and hop-ups that IMO need to be moved to that sub forum. Part of the issue is that they do not really see airsoft replicas made for sniping as being fundamentally different from any other replica; the focus being more on producing a consistent output rather than enormous volumes of output (high RoF) for instance.

[quoteI would theorize that in an accurate, smooth barrel, the BB has 'separated' from the top of the barrel by the end, while retaining back spin and is pushed out by the remaining expanding air in the barrel...[/quote]

By the time the BB reaches the 'sweet spot' in the barrel length it should, ideally, be centered in the barrel again due to the surrounding pressure and back spin reaching an 'equilibrium' so to say.

Would you mind explaining this in a bit more detail? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm having trouble understanding why this would occur in the first place, and why only at the end of the barrel.

On airsoft I would argue that it is more important due to the simple fact that the air pushing the BB, the back spin and the consistency (or lack there of) of the escaping gas when the BB exits is the only thing we have going for us. So to think of barrels like the Falcon barrel as a really complex crowning, it starts to make sense.

I agree with you here. The crown is indeed very important because it determines both the exit vector and the air-flow around the bb as it exits the muzzle. I never really thought of a Falcon barrel as a long crown, but I do see how it would make an impact there. Perhaps having a custom barrel maker like Edgi make a barrel with the end of it grooved similarly would make for a some good testing.

Why do some shots go dead center and some fly off to the right or left 12 inches I wonder? Answer that and you can solve "the" problem. If it was as simple as air cushion there would be no random fliers. Ever. It would all ways be consistent every time for everybody and there would only be one size barrel as everyone would figure out what really works in terms if bb to barrel size. Beyond that there is only anecdotal evidence which is at best corollary in nature that barrel size is the key to anything other than creating confusion.

I understand what you're saying, but I actually think that those "flier" shots are explainable, in this case not by the barrel but rather by play in the hop-up system. The reason I say this is that when I have gotten those way-off shots the always seemed to sort of "spin off" to the side after traveling along a relatively straight vector toward the target. It wasn't so much a straight path in the wrong direction. The other reason I say this is because when faced with this further hop-up tuning and tightening always seemed to greatly reduce the amount of these "flier" shots, and the degree to which they are off, or seemingly eliminate them altogether.

That would be me and I did not use clear barrels I used a PDI 6.01 330mm and an Edgi 500mm barrel with .32 Bioval bb's with black dots imparted with a sharpie to see what spin is happening on the BB when it exits.

That's very interesting actually, but it was not this test I was referring to. I am referring to one that ASM's Hunterseeker5 has referred to, and he has in multiple occasions specifically stated that the barrels were clear and acrylic in this particular test. The purpose of the test was not to determine the bb's spin but rather it's behavior inside the barrel. I said "supposedly" because I, nor anyone else I know of, has seen this footage. And Hunterseeker5, in his usual vagueness, refuses to say where to find these test results, or who did them, supposedly at the person who ran the test's request. Honestly, if this were coming from anyone else, I would probably dismiss it altogether. But I am tentatively willing to believe this simply because Hunterseeker5 has been a highly informative and contributing member of ASM, and has done a heck of a lot of testing and R&D of his own.

I also recall that a Canadian bb company called BBBastard was planning to run some tests of their own using clear barrels and high-speed cameras. Whether they have actually done this I do not know, but I can tell you no results were ever published.

The question is why is the spin different between different shots? And it is not the .3 the thickness of a sheet of printer paper variance between bb's nor is it the air cushion not is it the imperfection in the barrel for if it were it would always cause the same effect which we all know is not the case.

This I would also explain not as a barrel issue but rather a hop-up issue. Contact with anything will produce off-axis spin, but compared to the sheer magnitude of the spin applied by the hop-up the rest are incredibly small. That's why you practically need a bench test to see the difference between a 6.01 and 6.03 of the same brand, and even then you have to be using really good ammo (ie Bioval or SGMs, with SGM's probably being a more relevant test considering Biovals are made with a smaller diameter to be used in 6.01s). Hop-up spin is never a constant between shots unfortunately. We can get closer and closer with tuning, but regardless, assuming all components, the hop-up setup, the barrel, and the bbs, are of good quality, the barrel would logically produce the least variation. Whether the bbs or hop-up produce more variation is largely dependent on the user's ability to eliminate as much play as practically possible from the hop-up setup.

It does not any more than simply using a smaller bb with a tighter barrel would be the exact same as a bigger barrel and a bigger bb.

I agree. This goes back to my earlier comment about Bioval bbs, having a smaller diameter, which I believe is no accident. Bioval bbs seem to preform quite well in the tighter 6.01s.

I measured bb variation between brands 4x bigger than the .02 difference between 6.01 and 6.03.

Yet another source of play. And why it is really not a matter of just using a wider barrel, but rather using bbs and barrels whose diameters work well with each other.

The very process of injection molding bbs is a source of play, especially with the heavy rounds that snipers like to use, simply due to the inconsistent nature of injection molding using high-density polystyrene.

The fact that there are so many variables, and that hop-up and bbs are essentially impossible to hold constant, there may never be enough "clean" test results to say for certain what exactly is happening and why. It is all speculation to some degree.

I wish you luck you your new design and subsequent testing.

Again, I don't claim to know all the answers either, and I think this discussion is great.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Oh wow, this just got serious

In reference to :

[quote:2huts5x3]By the time the BB reaches the 'sweet spot' in the barrel length it should, ideally, be centered in the barrel again due to the surrounding pressure and back spin reaching an 'equilibrium' so to say.

Would you mind explaining this in a bit more detail? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm having trouble understanding why this would occur in the first place, and why only at the end of the barrel.
[/quote:2huts5x3]

The 'end' is a relative term here. To simplify: start by imagining an infinite inner barrel with an 'ideal' ID and standard hop up. The BB hits the hop up imposing back spin and running along the top of the barrel for 'x' distance. As air expands behind the BB, the BB accelerates through the hop up imposing a dramatic back spin from the 'flick' of the nub. As the BB runs down the barrel the spin and the velocity of the BB eventually match (IOT: the back spin imposed is faster than the BBs forward velocity eventually forward velocity and spin rate match due to friction against the barrel). When this happens the BB will drop from the top of the barrel and settle into the expanding air stream, at this point the air would be essentially completely expended from the cylinder and the aformentioned 'infinite barrel' would be near its end. Thus the BB would still have a back spin as it rides on the cushion of air for a very short distance as it exits the barrel effected by the crowning.

In this theory, a barrel such as the falcon barrel would make sense in that the grooves would allow air to artificially create the cushion, potentionally, early; stabilizing the BB as it exits. Essentially increasing the margin of error for the 'sweet spot' in the barrel length.

 

[dhm078]

This theory makes sense as you described it. But the way I'm looking at it, when you relate it to a barrel that is NOT infinitely long, you have a problem. For one, this assumes, that not only do you have an infinitely long barrel, but also and infinite volume of pressurized gas behind the bb. With an airsoft gun, you have a limited gas volume around the bb. This actually would make it more difficult for a buffer of air to form around the bb the farther down the barrel you go, because there is a smaller amount of air present, and it is at this point at a much lower pressure than before, relative to the air in front of the bb. The other problem is that the bb is only in the barrel for a tiny fraction of a second. I don't see this minimal contact with the barrel producing enough friction to actually slow the spin that much. In an infinitely long barrel with infinite gas volume yes, but we have an infinite amount of distance. We measure our barrel lenghts though in millimeters. If spin were being slowed enough that the bb is dropping, it's spin would not be effective in keeping the bb level once it left the barrel; the bb is still traveling trough air in the barrel, same as it would outside of it, so if it's dropping inside the barrel it will drop outside too. But this is not the case. Besides, one would be able to counter this effect if it were actually happening like that by simply turning up the hop-up so that more spin is applied anyway.

Although I have to say, the idea of a Falcon barrel increasing the acceptable margin of error is an interesting one, as it would explain both why some have seen them to be "better", while others, especially some who are familiar with and working closer to the "sweet spot", have not.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

True, but to bring my example to reality:
Hop is variable.
Barrels are finite.
C:B ratios change.
BB mass effects rotation.
BB mass effects speed.

So less hop would mean a shorter span to drop to center, heavier BB mass would mean less initial spin; a faster drop off of the top of the barrel. Shorter v. longer barrel + larger v. smaller Cylinder volume v. Gas. All of these would effect the barrel length. Every one of these realities would effect the physical size of the set up, but I dont think that this abstract model is terribly far from reality given the effects of weight and airpressure.

On the other hand. If the BB does travel along the barrel for its entire length why not get rid of the traditional barrel all together. Why not create a barrel that has a profile more uniform to giving a BB an even spin along a designated length? That way the BB would be centered and consistant with every shot.