[SilentScope]

Hypothetical Best Combination for Accuracy

So I've done a lot of practical testing and physics research involving airsoft and I've come to hypothesize that the most effective hop-up system for any BASR is as follows:

1. Inner Barrel ORGA Magnus 6.23mm (length dependent on rifle)
2. R-Hop or ER-Hop (Which one depends on user, but you must have one or the other)
3. LRB Mod (Optional)
4. 0.43g BBs

I have not yet tested this combination, although I will eventually. To those who have even the slightest physics knowledge regarding airsoft please chime in your opinion.

I'm mostly concerned with the ORGA Magnus 6.23mm. In theory, this should be the most precise at keeping a consistent hop-up spin... and as some of us know, for long distances, it's majority hop-up.

Of course TBBs are not bad, they work and there's proof everywhere. The hypothesized combination I stated is simply one that is aiming for hop-up perfection with all the consumer products available at the moment for BASRs.

 

[zero]

So in other words, a large bore barrel is more accurate than a tight bore barrel when using 0.43g bb's and an R-Hop/ER-Hop.. (which is the set-up people should be using anyway except the fact many of us currently have 6.03's installed) ????

Zero

 

[SilentScope]

For now, the combination is hypothetical. I've yet to test it, but using physics and sound logical reasoning, it should outperform any other barrel and bucking combination at the moment.

Airsoft does change, although slowly, and information is spread in my opinion even slower. This means there might be a setup lingering our there that no one has mentioned let alone shared with a forum.

The reason 6.03mm has been the magic number for a lot of people (IMHO) was because:

• A very TBB (i.e. 6.00mm) induced a lot of bouncing and friction which disrupts a given hop-up spin.

• A larger bore barrel (i.e. 6.08mm) was not efficient for everyone because buckings and nubs let the BB slide beneath with a lot of side-to-side play. This in turn reduces predictable and consistent hop-up spin.

A 6.03mm was just at the right spot. Not too much bounce and just enough predictable and consistent spin applied.

But now, there are R-hops.

Very TBBs will cause more bouncing and friction regardless of any conventional product today so that's out of the picture.

HOWEVER, looser barrels now have the R-hop which nearly eliminates side-to-side play.

So with the introduction of the r-hop, in theory larger bore barrels should now be more effective.

Take note though, I do not claim that they are more effective or if they are, by how much. They can be worse, the same, or perhaps much much better. At this point, it's all theoretical.

 

[Masterjuggler98]

I would think the r-hop is meant to give greater control over bb, meaning never COMPLETE cancelation of bouncing in the barrel. I have tested my setup with a 6.03 and a 6.01 and the 01 works better in keeping my shots consistent. I will also be gettingthe r-hop soon so I can tell you which barrel yeilds better results.

Even with the r-hop, if that bb touches the side of the barrel even slightly it's going to start to bounce. In a TBB, as I understand it, the airflow is creating a layer of air around the bb which is stopping it from touching the barrel. Air escapes at the path of least resistence, in this case, around the bb.

 

[zero]

I think really, it would be best to conduct an experiment with many different set-ups and variables including this set-up, and pool all the results to see whether this set-up works better than others, testing your hypothesis.. The only problem with that would be the $ problem, and pushing all the donkey work onto one person. I.E. you.. :L

Zero

 

[SilentScope]

Lol :lmao:. If I was funded, I would be able to lay rest many Airsoft assumptions and potential myths. I honestly think I've spent 95+% shooting due to tests and the remaining percent just shooting for fun :doh:

 

[SilentScope]

Even with the r-hop, if that bb touches the side of the barrel even slightly it's going to start to bounce. In a TBB, as I understand it, the airflow is creating a layer of air around the bb which is stopping it from touching the barrel. Air escapes at the path of least resistence, in this case, around the bb.

I agree and it's understood that BB "bounce" is inevitable in inner barrels, and most likely even the Magnus LBB.

TBBs allow a BB to bounce more frequently because there is less free space between each bounce. Each bounce (applied friction) consequently alters a BB's moment of inertia affecting accuracy once the BB begins to exhibit lift at a distance-- assuming enough hop-up spin was applied.

A 6.01mm can however be more accurate than a 6.03mm if the 01 has less potential friction inside and has better tolerance control. Anything inside of a barrel will cause friction if the BB touches it. A *****-and-span and well-made 6.01mm TBB can avoid more friction, and in turn out-perform a 6.03mm which may embark more friction on a BB's spin.

As long as an inner diameter is a sensible size (i.e. not 12.00mm), the main goal in mind is to reduce friction as much as possible so hop-up remains nearly undisturbed once it is applied. So if they somehow created a 5.98mm TBB with less potential friction than any of the inner barrels today, everyone would be buying it... or at least should

Friction doth give hop-up, and friction doth taketh away.

The idea of a BB floating in an inner barrel is spread widely, and although it does sounds convincing, there are too many variables which will not allow this from happening. Airflow is too turbulent inside the inner barrel and BB spin affects air pressures just to name two examples.

 

[Masterjuggler98]

There is a barrel polishing guide in the general sniper talk section, but I have yet to try it because I'm afraid it will affect the ID. If it works it should reduce friction dramatically.

And because brass is a soft metal, the bbs will actually smooth it out even further after a while and create less friction in the barrel.

 

[SilentScope]

There is a barrel polishing guide in the general sniper talk section, but I have yet to try it because I'm afraid it will affect the ID. If it works it should reduce friction dramatically.

I'll try it out on one of my 6.01mm this week and update with the results. I avoided polishing for the same reason you stated :yup:, but also because I shoot a lot, A LOT lol. Re-applying polish/wax would become a hassle for me, but I guess I'll give it a shot :shot:

 

[Adman234]

Here is my opinion on this:

1. Inner Barrel ORGA Magnus 6.23mm (length dependent on rifle)
2. ER-Hop
3. LRB Mod
4. BB Bastard .66 g BBs
5. Unrestricted Polarstar Fusion Engine @ max PSI and nozzle, semi-auto
6. Prometheus Hard Bucking, with nub removed
7. M-nub / TDC / HS5 splints (or whatever they're called)
8. Barrel epoxied and spaced in place to hold it 100% solid (Yet still adjustable with the LRB kit?? lol)

Also, not internally, but:

1. Hair Trigger Modification
2. Everything completely solid, no wobbles
3. Huge nightforce scope
4. Easy access to hopup / LRB adjustment
5. Bipod /monopod

 

[SilentScope]

Here is my opinion on this:

1. Inner Barrel ORGA Magnus 6.23mm (length dependent on rifle)
2. ER-Hop
3. LRB Mod
4. BB Bastard .66 g BBs
5. Unrestricted Polarstar Fusion Engine @ max PSI and nozzle, semi-auto
6. Prometheus Hard Bucking, with nub removed
7. M-nub / TDC / HS5 splints (or whatever they're called)
8. Barrel epoxied and spaced in place to hold it 100% solid (Yet still adjustable with the LRB kit?? lol)

Also, not internally, but:

1. Hair Trigger Modification
2. Everything completely solid, no wobbles
3. Huge nightforce scope
4. Easy access to hopup / LRB adjustment
5. Bipod /monopod

Out of curiosity, have you played with 0.66g BB's? I never asked, but I think fields out here don't allow them lol. I do have access to 0.80g BB's :hehe:

I agree with pretty much everything you listed. One thing in particular I'm still unsure of is the actual science revolving around a LRB. Does it compensate for gravity? "Bounce"? Or what?

As for an epoxied inner barrel... for sniper rifles, a wax-spacer mod is pretty much the equivalent Not going to lie though, I've never heard of an epoxied barrel before!

 

[bitchtits]

Has anyone fitted a r or er hop into a bolt action rifle like a vsr, I've read around a bit regarding them recently but have only found them being used in AEGs.

Im still undecided regarding barrels.
In my old vsr I've ran the stock tm barrel(6.08 i believe) a tm (6.04 from the upgraded hop) and a pdi 6.01.

Both the tighter barrels gave better results than the stock which I would expect.
The pdi gave some great results for a while.(just after installing and setting up my rifle I took 1 head shot and 2 body shots on 3 guys sitting around 75-80m away with only there top halfs showing as they were lying over a mound using 5 rounds,much to the shock of my site owner and two players watching after the first head shot they thought it was luck,until i hit the other two).
But then I found it started to show up flaws and wasn't preforming as well after a lot of use,this may be down to me not cleaning it as much though.
so i returned to the 6.04 and used that with great results for years.

Even pdi now state that there 6.08 is for accuracy and there 6.01 is for power

 

[SilentScope]

Cheeseman does r-hop/er-hop installations and can probably answer your questions

As for the which barrel diameter is better for accuracy... well for a long time now it has been said to be between 6.01-6.08mm. But, with the introduction of the r-hop/er-hop results might be different. Only time and testing will tell :yup:

 

[vindicareassassin]

I agree with pretty much everything you listed. One thing in particular I'm still unsure of is the actual science revolving around a LRB. Does it compensate for gravity? "Bounce"? Or what?

An LRB will help stabalize the bb, especialy in a larger bore barrel, it will also add some hop effect aswell, but this is largely dependant on the curve applied, the length of barrel, the bb weight and the fps power used.

It will also help to give a flat tragectory to the bb flight instead of the slight 'up & over' curve given by conventional hop methods.

 

[MiloXC3]

Isn't the Magnus only supposed to be used with low-fps set ups?

 

[racusiren]

I like your hypothesis! Hopefully some time in the near future you/I will have enough funds to actual try this.

 

[WorstInFinlanD]

No, twist barrel is only for low power setup.

 

[MiloXC3]

I still think that the 6.23 will be more innacurate than a 6.08 at 300ft and under, after seeing SilentScope's tests, but will be more accurate and consistent at anything above that.
If I am correct, then a Magnus would be perfect for those super long-range shots!

 

[SilentScope]

I still think that the 6.23 will be more innacurate than a 6.08 at 300ft and under, after seeing SilentScope's tests, but will be more accurate and consistent at anything above that.
If I am correct, then a Magnus would be perfect for those super long-range shots!

With the conventional setup (bucking + nub), my results were what you said they were ... I've squeezed what I believe I can out of those tests so I'm planning to perform tests primarily with r-Hop from now on If I discover new results, I'll post them when I can. Going to be busy for a while, so my test shooting will be taking a hiatus. Results will probably be shared sometime in the future, but not that soon :lame: Hopefully sooner than I think >

 

[MiloXC3]

When I win the lottery I'll definitely buy a whole load of barrels and parts and do some testing! When I win the lottery...