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What do you guys think is the best type of AEG (M16, M14, G3, etc.) to use as a base gun?
Best Type of AEG DMR
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Your going to be looking at anything with a drum type hop chamber or a screw and arm type.
So Steyr AUG, G&G/CA M14,TM G3, TM G36, TM M14, ICS M4 are the most common but there are others.....MC 51s, FN FALs....
The very bottom of the pile, anything with a hop chamber that has no reasonable way of keeping its hop setting while being bashed around the playing field ie. any M4/M16/MP5 variant that has a cog system for adjusting the hop.
Don't get me wrong you can achieve good results from an M4 style hop, but the amount of effort, modification and money (Element and strike chambers are a good bases to start from) you have to put in to achieve comparable results is far out stripped by the fact that the other guns I suggested come with a stable hop as standard, with only a rubber and nub change needed to make them outstanding and some fine fettling to make them out of this world.
My advise, steer clear of the TM M14 and the ICS M4, nice guns and all, but the M14 has a version 7 gearbox which can be a bitch to work on and alot of the parts in it are only for this gearbox so parts cant be interchanged with other boxes if some thing goes wrong and the semi only latch is prone to wearing out pretty darn quick, among other issues, and the ICS can suffer QC issues and at the end of the day its just an M4, not a DMR, and my view on M4s is its just like an arse hole.....everyones got one......even me
The G&G M14 uses a version of the version 7 gearbox, the advantage being you can use pretty much all V2/3 parts in it, so no worry of having to buy special gear sets etc, and all the trigger contacts are inside the GB keeping it safe from getting shite/damp/dust/water (depending on where you play) in it. There are proprietary parts like the cylinder head and tappet plate, but IIRC you can mod one of these from a V6 one any way should the need arise, and its my personal favorite One thing I should mention the CA M14 is a clone of the G&G and alot of the parts will fit, BUT its not a direct clone so there is some anomalies in it ie. they don't have a spring release function being the main one as most of the others are cosmetic.
Pretty much all the others I suggest are based of either the Version 2 or 3 gearbox so no problem in getting them up to speed power or durability wise
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One other thing on the V2 gearbox..... try to avoid them if at all possible in high power setups, they tend to crack at the front and even the, so say, high strength versions cant get enough metal at the point occures to warrent you waisting your money on one.
Just try not to be sucked into the '1 w4nt 2 l00k 411 GI, n 8uy n M16A3' It may look the part, but it sure as shit ain't necessarily going to be the part
So Steyr AUG, G&G/CA M14,TM G3, TM G36, TM M14, ICS M4 are the most common but there are others.....MC 51s, FN FALs....
The very bottom of the pile, anything with a hop chamber that has no reasonable way of keeping its hop setting while being bashed around the playing field ie. any M4/M16/MP5 variant that has a cog system for adjusting the hop.
Don't get me wrong you can achieve good results from an M4 style hop, but the amount of effort, modification and money (Element and strike chambers are a good bases to start from) you have to put in to achieve comparable results is far out stripped by the fact that the other guns I suggested come with a stable hop as standard, with only a rubber and nub change needed to make them outstanding and some fine fettling to make them out of this world.
My advise, steer clear of the TM M14 and the ICS M4, nice guns and all, but the M14 has a version 7 gearbox which can be a bitch to work on and alot of the parts in it are only for this gearbox so parts cant be interchanged with other boxes if some thing goes wrong and the semi only latch is prone to wearing out pretty darn quick, among other issues, and the ICS can suffer QC issues and at the end of the day its just an M4, not a DMR, and my view on M4s is its just like an arse hole.....everyones got one......even me
The G&G M14 uses a version of the version 7 gearbox, the advantage being you can use pretty much all V2/3 parts in it, so no worry of having to buy special gear sets etc, and all the trigger contacts are inside the GB keeping it safe from getting shite/damp/dust/water (depending on where you play) in it. There are proprietary parts like the cylinder head and tappet plate, but IIRC you can mod one of these from a V6 one any way should the need arise, and its my personal favorite
One thing I should mention the CA M14 is a clone of the G&G and alot of the parts will fit, BUT its not a direct clone so there is some anomalies in it ie. they don't have a spring release function being the main one as most of the others are cosmetic.Pretty much all the others I suggest are based of either the Version 2 or 3 gearbox so no problem in getting them up to speed power or durability wise
Just try not to be sucked into the '1 w4nt 2 l00k 411 GI, n 8uy n M16A3' It may look the part, but it sure as shit ain't necessarily going to be the part
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What would you say is too much for a good version 2 mechbox? I was looking at the new KWA guns. My field limit is any AEG can shoot 400 with .25 and 515 with a .25 for semi-only AEG's, but i would stay more towards the 400 mark.
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Ive had TM shell crack on a 350 fps setup, so I think its just a matter of time thing, the more power you use the shorter the time it'll stay together what most people tend to forget is that the original Version 2 boxs were only designed to take about 280 fps, and everyone else just stuck arsing great springs into it to make it more powerful, but like everything that is designed and then used in such a way, the weak points soon come to light in the result of a breakage of some kind
Me personally, I'd stick to 400 to 450 fps and use cheaper and more plentyful .28s, I use Guarders in mine, as you'll be useing ammo faster than you would with a bolty, so it would be financial suicide to be useing high quality heavy ammo in an SASS, unless of coarse you are super highly disapplined, of just plain rich
I used to use my A&K SR25 at 415fps and that seems to be fine at the mo, whether it makes a difference being a long V2 GB I cant say, but I did radius all the opening corners realy well before I even fired the first shot with it, its now modified beyond belief, but down graded to 345fps, to play at my nearest site which has a 350 fps/ .2 cap for everything :-/
what most people tend to forget is that the original Version 2 boxs were only designed to take about 280 fps, and everyone else just stuck arsing great springs into it to make it more powerful, but like everything that is designed and then used in such a way, the weak points soon come to light in the result of a breakage of some kind Me personally, I'd stick to 400 to 450 fps and use cheaper and more plentyful .28s, I use Guarders in mine, as you'll be useing ammo faster than you would with a bolty, so it would be financial suicide to be useing high quality heavy ammo in an SASS, unless of coarse you are super highly disapplined, of just plain rich
I used to use my A&K SR25 at 415fps and that seems to be fine at the mo, whether it makes a difference being a long V2 GB I cant say, but I did radius all the opening corners realy well before I even fired the first shot with it, its now modified beyond belief, but down graded to 345fps, to play at my nearest site which has a 350 fps/ .2 cap for everything :-/
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What did you do to the A&K?
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Yep, I would, I owned 4 at various times, and 3 at 1 time not so long back, in various forms, ie. M14 NM, EBR MK14, SOC16. and all because of the reasons I gave above, The Tm weapon is good but it is just to finiky for me, and the fact that 90% of the G&G is V2/3 or AUG sways me towards them. I believe you can still get the Veteran over your way, and this is by far the best start for a DMR. All you need is a TBB, new rubber and nub, stick a scope on it and jobs a good 'unzulu said:
Silentfury - My A&K has the following
Home made AB MOSFET (AR latch and spring removed as locked to semi)(16 guage wire)
A piston spacer ( enableing standard 16 tooth pistons to be used)
Sorbothane pad glued to piston head and to cylinder head. ( not only keeps down the noise but also helps get the piston angle of engament correct too)
Volume balanced cylinder to barrel
AUG nozzle
Modified tappet plate to move nozzle farther forward
Version 2 steel gear set
TM EG1000 motor
My VACS hop mod fitted to a normal M4 metal chamber (they are different and use a different rubber aswell)
A 450mm x 6.04 systema barrel
Plus other little tweeks and tune ups you should do to all AEGs like shimming, re-grease, sealing etc.
I should mention that the hop chamber change wasn't just to be able to use a normal hop rubber, it was also to try and cure the miss feed I was getting with the CA mid caps I now use to feed the beast ( only needs a small amount of filing to be done to the catch hole and they fit straight in
) which it did I'm going to go ahead and hijack this as it's on the topic already and has some quality info in it. I'll hopefully be coming into some $ soon and I only need $200 to upgrade my bar-10. I'm keeping it around 395 fps, it's going to be my "quiet" (close range) rifle. I'm sure there'll come a time when I'll upgrade the cylinder set and trigger group and drop in an sp170, but I'm keeping it lower powered for now.
I want to use the other $400 I'll hopefully be getting on a G&G M14 veteran. I should be able to find it for about $350. I'll likely skip the tightbore and just go with a stock TM bucking and a SCS nub in there, and polish the barrel. I'll probably go for a prommy 6.03 when I can. Sound like a plan to you? Also, what will be the most likely part in there to break on me, and how stable is the stock rifle? I'd like it to be skirmishable for a few months at least before I start upgrading.
Also, this is going to be my first time familiarizing myself overly much with an AEG. How difficult is it to work on an AEG gearbox
I want to use the other $400 I'll hopefully be getting on a G&G M14 veteran. I should be able to find it for about $350. I'll likely skip the tightbore and just go with a stock TM bucking and a SCS nub in there, and polish the barrel. I'll probably go for a prommy 6.03 when I can. Sound like a plan to you? Also, what will be the most likely part in there to break on me, and how stable is the stock rifle? I'd like it to be skirmishable for a few months at least before I start upgrading.
Also, this is going to be my first time familiarizing myself overly much with an AEG. How difficult is it to work on an AEG gearbox
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If you stick a 509mm Madbull V2 Python, A guarder black and a SCS in it you'll be good to go, no need for opening the gearbox
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(pretty much all I have in mine...... apart from all the other little tweeks that we can dicuss another time
As the Veteran should come with a solid wood stock the balance and rigidity are second to none, so long as you use normal 9.6v batts, all I would suggest is getting a King Arms scope mount, or any low level mount, as alot are quite high and only really usable with an EBR with an adjustable cheek rest.
As for breakages, I dowt you'll get any major ones unless you happen to get a piston strip :-/ And working on it is 100% easier than any TM or clone M14
Other mods I recommend, take off the fire selector cam to disable full auto, and fit an AB MOSFET and use either a 9.6 batt, or if your into them an 11v Lipo (will make it slightly front heavy). All other stuff is just nice to have and not strictly necessary
As the Veteran should come with a solid wood stock the balance and rigidity are second to none, so long as you use normal 9.6v batts, all I would suggest is getting a King Arms scope mount, or any low level mount, as alot are quite high and only really usable with an EBR with an adjustable cheek rest.
As for breakages, I dowt you'll get any major ones unless you happen to get a piston strip :-/ And working on it is 100% easier than any TM or clone M14
Other mods I recommend, take off the fire selector cam to disable full auto, and fit an AB MOSFET and use either a 9.6 batt, or if your into them an 11v Lipo (will make it slightly front heavy). All other stuff is just nice to have and not strictly necessary
So you don't think there's much real advantage to getting the prommy barrel? I've heard some good things about madbulls and I'm not opposed to saving some $.vindicareassassin said:If you stick a 509mm Madbull V2 Python, A guarder black and a SCS in it you'll be good to go, no need for opening the gearbox(pretty much all I have in mine...... apart from all the other little tweeks that we can dicuss another time![]()
As the Veteran should come with a solid wood stock the balance and rigidity are second to none, so long as you use normal 9.6v batts, all I would suggest is getting a King Arms scope mount, or any low level mount, as alot are quite high and only really usable with an EBR with an adjustable cheek rest.
As for breakages, I dowt you'll get any major ones unless you happen to get a piston strip :-/ And working on it is 100% easier than any TM or clone M14
Other mods I recommend, take off the fire selector cam to disable full auto, and fit an AB MOSFET and use either a 9.6 batt, or if your into them an 11v Lipo (will make it slightly front heavy). All other stuff is just nice to have and not strictly necessary
I use a guarder black in my L96, actually, and it's the best bucking I've used to date for consistency. So that's a go
Is the stock scope mount high? See, I use a PB mask b/c I'm 17 and it's required for the games I play at. It's very low profile, basically the smallest and closest fitting mask I could find that still fit the requirements (DYE I4, cost me a pretty penny). But I'm going to hold off on low profile mounts until I hit 18 in a few months and get some ESS goggles or something of the sort.
Would you suggest 9.6v's over 11v lipos? What are the advantages of each? I really am a complete newbie at AEGs. Like I said, I've used and tinkered with a few decent, mostly clone AEGs but over the past couple years I've been almost solely devoted to bolt action rifles. I know very little about how to optimize performance on a shiny new $350 M14.
And I've heard some horror stories about pistons.
But this IS a DMR
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The Madbull is an excelent barrel, and apparently according to sum actualy 6.01 rather than the 6.03 as advertised, but that has never been verified, but still Its what I got and no complaints here
As for scope mounts, even with the low profile mount and low mounts on the scope its still the side of your chin thats on the stock to look down the scope, add high mounts to both and you can shoot it from the hip and still see down the scope.... ok, a tad of a white lie, but you get the picture. If you look at any pic of real grunts using the M14 you'll notice pretty much all of them have taped a large cheek rest to the stock, even using low mounts. The other thing that I struggled with is eye relief, I just couldn't get the scope far enough back to get it any where near decsent, I'm looking into making a RIS extender in the next couple of days just so I can get my shooting position back to being comfy :-/
The difference between a 9.6 and lipo..... 9.6 will balance the stock better but the rate of fire will be slightly slower, 11v lipo trigger response will be shit hot but the gun will be slightly forstock heavy. For a more stable and therefore accurate weapon its recomended that 70% of the gun weight should be to the rear of the centre, one reason I swaped it back to an M21, as the EBR stock had what felt like 90% of its weight infront of the mag :-/
The advantage to pulling the selector off is, like you said, no temptation to turn into a full auto queen More over when you fit an AB MOSFET it means you can lose the
AR latch etc which makes the GB more efficient and, again like you said, it reduces the chance of something going 'pop' or more likely jamming
If it helps you get a feel for things, as the project I mentioned to you before xmas has been abandoned as a gap for an urban weapon would have been left in my arsenal, so I plan to rebuild my M21 over the next couple of days, disabling the pre cocking sector and accurising it to the point its only a step down from my VSR, I'll take pics and post in another dedicated thread what goes on, and woogie if your listening, might be worth you reading it to as if the EBR is the same GB and hop chamber as the CA M14 alot will be relavent to you too stay tuned
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As for scope mounts, even with the low profile mount and low mounts on the scope its still the side of your chin thats on the stock to look down the scope, add high mounts to both and you can shoot it from the hip and still see down the scope.... ok, a tad of a white lie, but you get the picture. If you look at any pic of real grunts using the M14 you'll notice pretty much all of them have taped a large cheek rest to the stock, even using low mounts. The other thing that I struggled with is eye relief, I just couldn't get the scope far enough back to get it any where near decsent, I'm looking into making a RIS extender in the next couple of days just so I can get my shooting position back to being comfy :-/
The difference between a 9.6 and lipo..... 9.6 will balance the stock better but the rate of fire will be slightly slower, 11v lipo trigger response will be shit hot but the gun will be slightly forstock heavy. For a more stable and therefore accurate weapon its recomended that 70% of the gun weight should be to the rear of the centre, one reason I swaped it back to an M21, as the EBR stock had what felt like 90% of its weight infront of the mag :-/
The advantage to pulling the selector off is, like you said, no temptation to turn into a full auto queen
More over when you fit an AB MOSFET it means you can lose the AR latch etc which makes the GB more efficient and, again like you said, it reduces the chance of something going 'pop' or more likely jamming
If it helps you get a feel for things, as the project I mentioned to you before xmas has been abandoned as a gap for an urban weapon would have been left in my arsenal, so I plan to rebuild my M21 over the next couple of days, disabling the pre cocking sector and accurising it to the point its only a step down from my VSR, I'll take pics and post in another dedicated thread what goes on, and woogie if your listening, might be worth you reading it to as if the EBR is the same GB and hop chamber as the CA M14 alot will be relavent to you too
stay tuned
Okay sounds good, I've got a good idea of what to do with the rifle once I get it.
One more question. I know you suggested the veteran, but what's the difference between
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/ER-GG-M14-VET.htm
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/ER-GG-M14-B.htm
those two. One's the veteran one is the "BK" (whatever that means).
One more question. I know you suggested the veteran, but what's the difference between
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/ER-GG-M14-VET.htm
http://www.airsplat.com/Items/ER-GG-M14-B.htm
those two. One's the veteran one is the "BK" (whatever that means).
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The 'BK' is the basic version. It has a plastic stock, plastic bushings, basic cylinder and piston head in the gearbox and a 6.08 barrel.
The 'Vet' comes with the solid wood stock, metal bushings their upgrade cylinder and piston set, which is now virtualy impossible to get aftermarket, and a reasonable tight bore.
'Vet' is much better buy, the wood stock is solid as a rock as opposed to the plastic 1 which twists and bends abit when you put a bi pod on it, plus it acts like a nice speaker box everytime you fire it :-/ and the piston/ cylinder head set aid consistency no end, the barrels a bit iffy but is better than a stock 1 and the spring that comes with it is all you'll ever need, ofcoarse I had to down grade mine to 350 fps
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On another front, mags, they are not TM compatable and no one makes cheap copies, so your more or less stuck with either CA or G&G ones. The plus side is they are relyable as hell, especially the mid caps, just a little difficult to find and a tad pricey :-/
As I use mine in a similar fashion to my bolty I only carry 2 mids per game, as its normaly plenty, and either a back up hi cap or a small pistol mag size speed loader to reload 1 mid cap with should the need arise
The 'Vet' comes with the solid wood stock, metal bushings their upgrade cylinder and piston set, which is now virtualy impossible to get aftermarket, and a reasonable tight bore.
'Vet' is much better buy, the wood stock is solid as a rock as opposed to the plastic 1 which twists and bends abit when you put a bi pod on it, plus it acts like a nice speaker box everytime you fire it :-/ and the piston/ cylinder head set aid consistency no end, the barrels a bit iffy but is better than a stock 1 and the spring that comes with it is all you'll ever need, ofcoarse I had to down grade mine to 350 fps
" title="" border="0"/>On another front, mags, they are not TM compatable and no one makes cheap copies, so your more or less stuck with either CA or G&G ones. The plus side is they are relyable as hell, especially the mid caps, just a little difficult to find and a tad pricey :-/
As I use mine in a similar fashion to my bolty I only carry 2 mids per game, as its normaly plenty, and either a back up hi cap or a small pistol mag size speed loader to reload 1 mid cap with should the need arise
Okay sounds good, I see why you recommended the vet. And it looks like it comes with one hi-capa mag. I'm only going to be using it on semi, so that's all I'll likely need (we're allowed to play with at max one hi-cap on the fields I play at). The extra mags will be handy but they can wait.
The steel gears, bushings, piston, etc. all sound very nice (It means I have to mess with the gearbox less, which is a big plus for me). As does the stock
The steel gears, bushings, piston, etc. all sound very nice (It means I have to mess with the gearbox less, which is a big plus for me). As does the stock
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It should be fine, but the barrel will be a little visible inside the flash hider.
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Uuum, actualy.... no it doesn't, infact a 509 is about 1/2" short of the flash hider :-/ after all tis what I got in minesilentfury214 said:
Pics of the scope mounts so you can see the hieght difference, top 1 is King Arms and iron sites work over the top of it, but cant be used once theres a scope on them, bottom is a chi com mount I bought cheap, iron sites work underneath it and can still be used when you got a scope on
What mine look like, top is my SOC16 front end and plastic stock, used as urban short range sniper rifle, actualy got round to painting the scope mount thisavo
bottom, my veteran, I use the same GB and trigger group in both Note - no barrel in the bird cage
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Sadly no, it just comes with a scope mount adaptor which doesn't suit any mounts that I know of
If your going to use a 50mm scope on it your going to need the high mount, as if you look at my 'Vet' the gap between the ob lens and the heat shield is only about 1/4" at the most, and thats a 40mm,....... unless of course your using high mounts on the scope then you should be ok
Pro-10?
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G-spec! my good man, G-spec!
Its a specialy modified Systema AEG barrel 6.04mm, cut down to 450mm in length from its original 509
If your going to use a 50mm scope on it your going to need the high mount, as if you look at my 'Vet' the gap between the ob lens and the heat shield is only about 1/4" at the most, and thats a 40mm,....... unless of course your using high mounts on the scope then you should be ok
Pro-10?
Its a specialy modified Systema AEG barrel 6.04mm, cut down to 450mm in length from its original 509
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