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Best VSR-10 build, No budget

14K views 26 replies 13 participants last post by  BlackDogAirsoft 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey all! So I've been lurking here for a while doing a ton of reading, watching videos, and research in general. I have a Phatco Customs high end AK style AEG, but I've been wanting something a little more satisfying. I've been doing a ton of research on the VSR-10 style rifle, and I have a few things I'm pretty set on. I'm pretty sure on the Maple Leaf style bucking, vs an R-hop or something similar, then the action army hop up chamber. But as far as the rest of the build I'm seeing alot of differing opinions, most of which vary based on budget. Now if I was going to build the BEST VSR-10 money can buy, what would you guys reccomend? PDI vs Laylax? Edgi vs Prommy? What build list would give me the most consistency and durability? I apologize if this is a frequently asked question, I did quite a bit of searching most of what I was finding was questions about already built, or an idea of a built VSR. looking to be at a 500fps limit. I'm starting at square one, with no budget. Thanks all!
 
#2 ·
SSG10...

Im kidding. Kind of.

There is no ultimate parts list. Stop obsessing over a 6mm plastic bb gun.

You could gucci build a rifle. EDGI parts. SM parts. Laylax. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

IF you screw up just ONE aspect of the assembly and tuning it will perform worse than an SSG10.

IF you get it right. It will only perform MARGINALLY better than an SSG10. I'm saying the SSG10 is good, here.

So, is spending an extra 500+ on a gucci rifle worth it to you still?

Great. It is. Ok. You should still use cheap AA parts for the majority of the build and go from there. Or just buy an SSG10. Seriously.

The difference is marginal. The expensive parts don't commensurately improve performance, and even those that say they do can't prove it. Build the rifle you want the cheapest way you can, then swap parts from there till you're happy. You will save money.

Or buy an SSG10.
 
#4 ·
SSG10...

Im kidding. Kind of.

There is no ultimate parts list. Stop obsessing over a 6mm plastic bb gun.

You could gucci build a rifle. EDGI parts. SM parts. Laylax. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

IF you screw up just ONE aspect of the assembly and tuning it will perform worse than an SSG10.

IF you get it right. It will only perform MARGINALLY better than an SSG10. I'm saying the SSG10 is good, here.

So, is spending an extra 500+ on a gucci rifle worth it to you still?

Great. It is. Ok. You should still use cheap AA parts for the majority of the build and go from there. Or just buy an SSG10. Seriously.

The difference is marginal. The expensive parts don't commensurately improve performance, and even those that say they do can't prove it. Build the rifle you want the cheapest way you can, then swap parts from there till you're happy. You will save money.

Or buy an SSG10.
I've had expensive rifles built for me before, and I've bought prebuilt rifles, I want to put it all together and tune it myself, and I don't want to buy parts twice.
 
#3 · (Edited)
No budget options for barrels/hopup:

A. If you have time/patience/no rush because of corona
I personally would and am waiting a few weeks until airsoft philosopher releases their new chamber: https://www.facebook.com/2080926842126379/posts/2608400799378978/?sfnsn=mo

They are a really cool company taking a no-compromises approach to building their product. What this means is, while they are very expensive, they are making the highest quality products to the highest tolerances you will find in airsoft. They have a really cool new innovative hop-up chamber with a perfect built in tdc settup that has not been seen before in the sniper community. They're making barrels, buckings, and hop-up chambers that are precisely designed for each other, and when we get some reviews/tests on their product after release, there is a chance that that will hands-down be the best build possible.

B. If you want to have the theoretically best possible build with current parts out now, that will take about 2 weeks, and save you a little money
If you don't want to wait, I would look into getting a lambda (one or five, doesn't really matter,) unbridging it, and getting a professional rhop install. That plus a flathopped autobot, assuming everything is done and installed perfectly, plus a shimmed action army chamber w/ a panthera nub, should give you close to the best possible performance out that is currently achievable (view first option for potential rebuttal).

Obviously these two suggestions don't really account for any sort of budget, and are likely a little unnecessary, but hey, if you have no budget and want the theoretical best rifle you can build, there they are... standard ml buckings + aa chamber & barrel should give you results pretty close though I guess. Just either lacking in consistency or airseal. Imo, every inch off target counts.

Everything else: In my opinion, Bulltrigger and SCW make the best triggers right now. For the cylinder, everyone agrees that laylax and Action army do great cylinders. I would just run with one of their cylinder+nozzle. Both are identical, it just comes down to which you can get cheaper. Next, one of the most important and most overlooked things in the rifle is the guide rings. If you aren't getting a bulltrigger one-piece receiver or VSR-U receiver, I would go on skirmshop and get their new orange guide rings, or bulltrigger's guide rings. Either works fine I believe. Finally, for a piston, SCW or WASP pistons are great!
 
#5 ·
No budget options for barrels/hopup:

A. If you have time/patience/no rush because of corona
I personally would and am waiting a month or two until airsoft philosopher releases their new chamber: https://www.facebook.com/2080926842126379/posts/2608400799378978/?sfnsn=mo

They are a really cool company taking a no-compromises approach to building their product. What this means is, while they are very expensive, they are making the highest quality products to the highest tolerances you will find in airsoft. They have a really cool new innovative hop-up chamber with a perfect built in tdc settup that has not been seen before in the sniper community. They're making barrels, buckings, and hop-up chambers that are precisely designed for each other, and when we get some reviews/tests on their product after release, there is a chance that that will hands-down be the best build possible.

B. If you want to have the theoretically best possible build with current parts out now, that will take about 2 weeks, and save you a little money
If you don't want to wait, I would look into getting a lambda (one or five, doesn't really matter,) unbridging it, and getting a professional rhop install. That plus a flathopped autobot, assuming everything is done and installed perfectly, plus a shimmed action army chamber w/ a panthera nub, should give you close to the best possible performance out that is currently achievable (view first option for potential rebuttal).

Obviously these two suggestions don't really account for any sort of budget, and are likely a little unnecessary, but hey, if you have no budget and want the theoretical best rifle you can build, there they are... standard ml buckings + aa chamber & barrel should give you results pretty close though I guess. Just either lacking in consistency or airseal. Imo, every inch off target counts.

Everything else: Bulltrigger makes the best trigger right now. More fps for a lighter spring, and it's probably the smoothest on the market. For the cylinder, everyone agrees that laylax and Action army do great cylinders. I would just run with one of their cylinder+nozzle. Both are identical, it just comes down to which you can get cheaper. Next, one of the most important and most overlooked things in the rifle is the guide rings. If you aren't getting a bulltrigger one-piece receiver or VSR-U receiver, I would go on skirmshop and get their new orange guide rings, or bulltrigger's guide rings. Either works fine I believe. Finally, for a piston, SAP or WASP pistons are great. The SAP will require you to use laylax springs, the WASP PDI or RAPAX.
Thanks for the detailed response! I didn't see that chamber coming out! I'll probably wait around for that one! Thanks again for the suggestions!
 
#10 ·
As said above, wait for the airsoft philosopher chamber.
Otherwise.
Action army masumne cylinder
Wasp piston
Rapax spring
Springer Custom Works trigger

Vsr-X reciever and barrel from Careful (comes with edgi barrel, action army hopup unit and rhop preinstalled)
Or
Vsr-R reciever and barrel from Reliku Customs and then install edgi barrel, action army hop unit and rhop
Or
Vsr-U receiver and barrel from Masada and install edgi barrel action army hop unit and rhop.

The thing about airsoft philosopher is that their barrel and bucking have a very long hop up patch. So long in fact that it does not work in the action army hop up unit! So for maximum effect wait for their own hopup unit.
Also, instead if all the crap with the cylinder and trigger you could just install a wolverine bolt and install the mods blind snipes has on his youtube channel.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk
 
#11 ·
One of the challenges of soliciting a 'no budget' VSR is that build parts are only the start. There is a lot of skill that goes in to crafting an airsoft gun that is lost. To get around this, you could contact one of the people who has a reputation for successful long shots and commission them to build, but even then you are not guaranteed performance of any kind.

So I kinda had a fun idea . . .

10 entries, 1 reputable forum member to film their assessment/testing and a $3000 prize for the best rifle. The 9 'losing' rifles would be auctioned off with the proceeds (minus a cut for the tester and sponsor) going back to the builder.

Rifles would be tested with builder supplied BBs and assessed on the same criteria.

1) Fieldability (failure is disqualification)
· Must demonstrate the ability to pass the sponsor's intended chrono rules


2) System Operation (10 pts)
· Bolt pull strength
· Logistics of operation (spring/hpa/co2)


3) Range (30 pts, scaled based on the furthest and nearest shots)
· Score scaled based on total distance at a prescribed holdover angle


4) Accuracy (1 pt per hit, 50 pts max)
· # shots out of 10 hitting a torso sized target at 100ft
· # shots out of 10 hitting a torso sized target at 200ft
· # shots out of 10 hitting a torso sized target at 250ft
· # shots out of 10 hitting a torso sized target at 300ft
· # shots out of 10 hitting a torso sized target at 350ft


5) Appearance (10 pts)
· Scored based on survey votes from the community
 
#14 ·
I like this idea. I've always been curious how other peoples builds compare directly to each other. It's almost impossible to get a real comparison between even a couple guns in most normal scenarios. Getting 10 together would make for a really interesting comparison. Not that I think I put together particularly good guns, but I do make parts...
 
#12 ·
I always thought it would be cool to have an “airsoft sniper’s ball”. Well kind of a nerdy outlook but essentially a huge swap meet for the forums. Putting rifle builds to the test would be activities held there. But, think about trying to set something up for people in multiple countries to attend. Possible, but would need tons of planning and I think a reputable receiving location for people to ship their rifles/gear. Since airlines can be a hassle when transporting airsoft stuff.

Either way, however you look at it...

Set it up Corriander 🙂 you have my vote! Cheers!
 
#15 ·
I heard somewhere that dimpled bbs will make your barrel and bucking commit die. Does anyone know anything about this.
Also. The airsoft sniper build contest sounds cool, but, I suspect sponsors would be hard to find as I think they would demand that we use only their parts.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk
 
#17 ·
Others have more input on dimpled bbs on this forum than I do. However I don't remember any of the input being positive...

As far as a TDC with outside magwell adjustability. Sure. Way more convenient. I've often thought bout adding that to my rifle, but I haven't found any manufacturers making the mod "easy" and "fool proof" yet. That may change as I've seen quite a few TDC kits on the bookface recently that show some promise. All 3D printed of course.

I'll state again though, I see those mods as purely convenience based, and not performance related in any way over a standard AA chamber.

I'll also say I see no difference in the AP chamber TDC and an AA chamber thats been modded with an outside TDC like we're discussing when it comes to ease of use. I'll also say I've seen nothing to indicate any improvement in performance either as they are still both TDC style chambers. The nub being attached to the arm, in my opinion, is a minor point. That mod has been available for a while through stalker arms and similar, and most still use the AA arm with a panthera or similar nub. If there was a significant difference in performance, I would think the word would be out by now and we would all be using single arm units.

At the end of the day, the max range isn't going to change, and I doubt the consistency at x distance will either vs what's currently available. Very pessimistic viewpoint, yes, but as discussed ad nauseam in other areas of this forum, we really have reached the maximum potential of this ammo with the power levels most of us play at (and I'm running 4J).
 
#18 · (Edited)
Yeah yeah. I guess I don't want to accept that we're at the limit. You guys said the same thing about the autobot... and then Mr. hop came out...

You may be right about no difference between AA and AP if an external tdc is added to the AA. I just like the idea of a TDC built into the chamber as you can't screw up alignment then. Also, all this stuff:

The difference between previous single piece nub arms and this may be that those all came in and pushed at an angle, while this system may push the patch straight down perfectly. Something like that has not been done before with any commercially available parts. I believe that's the kinda thing that Cheeseman of the old guard used to do to his rifles. Every nub out has either pushed straight down but not been stable on all axes, or has been attached but pressed at an angle. None have been both rigid and linear.

Also worth noting: No idea if this is what they are actually doing. This is all speculation atm.
 
#19 ·
Yeah yeah. I guess I don't want to accept that we're at the limit. You guys said the same thing about the autobot... and then Mr. hop came out...
Agree on that. I don´t think we´ve quite reached the full potential of our rifles.

The difference between previous single piece nub arms and this may be that those all came in and pushed at an angle, while this system may push the patch straight down perfectly. Something like that has not been done before with any commercially available parts.
Funny enough, this was actually my plan for the AA hop up chamber. Making a nub/arm, that goes straight down, with two ridges on the sides, to ensure it doesn´t get canted. Of course combined with a tdc adjuster. Sadly, I didn´t have the tools to make such a system and kinda lost interest. Then the maxx hop up unit came out, with exactly this design...

From APs latest picture it seems, that his chamber uses this design as well.

While I like the idea of the nub moving straight down, since it would the apply the same pressure along the whole length of the patch, the traditional design may not be as bad as you think. In traditonional arm setups, the arm can apply more pressure to the front of the hop up. This will have a similar effect to the way zero roadster does his r-hops. It creates a "ramp" for the bb to roll into the patch, therefore making the transition from barrel to hop up smoother. However this does not ensure a smooth transition from hop up to barrel. It will also require more hop. In a straight down system, this could all be easily controlled and adjusted, by adjusting the patchs or the nubs shape.

Also, do people on here believe cheeseman?

To quote him: "Get the wobble out of your backspin and you have yourself one hell of a rifle." Or a least something similar was what he said...
How would you get the wobble out of your backspin? Isn´t that only depended on the center of volume of your bb and the center of mass? How would changing something on your rifle have an effect there?
 
#20 ·
I dont think it would be all that hard to get some well known rifle builders from the forum together. Hell last Starburst there was 4 confirmed members there. Me, Corriander, Masada, and (I think...) mwrose77. (I am terrible with names, also I have drank and slept since then.) Getting the people together is not the hard part. Its the sponsors that will be. I already have a few builds I could bring out.

============

While you guys say there is no chamber that does what Fynn64 said, well there is. Its just not VSR compatible. That would be the RealSword SVD hopup chamber. Which is one of the reasons I strongly suggest them over others.

Ammo is the biggest limitation.
 
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#23 ·
I dont think it would be all that hard to get some well known rifle builders from the forum together. Hell last Starburst there was 4 confirmed members there. Me, Corriander, Masada, and (I think...) mwrose77. (I am terrible with names, also I have drank and slept since then.) Getting the people together is not the hard part. Its the sponsors that will be. I already have a few builds I could bring out.

============

While you guys say there is no chamber that does what Fynn64 said, well there is. Its just not VSR compatible. That would be the RealSword SVD hopup chamber. Which is one of the reasons I strongly suggest them over others.

Ammo is the biggest limitation.
Lol I was there with Masada, but I'm no builder. Masada has been teching my guns for over 10 years. I'm getting better at doing basic things, but usually turn to him to make sure it's done right.
 
#22 ·
I don´t think a two arm hop up chamber would be a good idea. PDI makes one, and it seems like you just can´t get it adjusted right.
If your bb curves to one side or the other, just sand the nub accordingly.
With a bit of fine tuning, you can get any chamber to seal perfectly and get the wobble out of the hop arm.
The only thing that can be improved on hop up chambers in my opinion, would be if the nub moves straight down instead of at an angle, because it will make adjusting your nub in an r-hop sytem or similar easier.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I think that 90% of PDI problems come from the fact that the screws are super hard to find and that it takes ages to adjust. I once did get mine accurate (I had a replica from JJ Airsoft) but I just binned that because it underhopped. Severely.

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this is by far the worst. Just kidding. It is actually quite good. It does suffer from overhop so the only bbs I can effectively use are .48+. Otherwise it is quite good. I even managed to get the 45 degree trigger right.
 

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#25 ·
I got myself a SSG10 and upgraded it where it was needed:
Inner Barrel: Crazy Jet 300mm
TDC: TDC 2.0 Pro
After that i made some mods to support the operation:
Smooth bolt pull mod
Some silencing mods
I am very happy with my build now (even thou, it would have cost less with another VSR10 clone) :
 
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