[shooter891]

Everyone,
A bill is being passed in California that makes every airsoft gun be made with bright colors to help distinguish their look from real firearms.

This all started when a 13 year old kid, at 11:30 in Los Angeles, was confronted by police. Now this kid was holding a replica of a Barreta 92, and ran from the cops. When the cops told him to give up and com out, he drew his weapon and a police officer shot and paralyzed the boy. Give the details, this boy was the size of the Average male adult, and the officer could not logically believe that the weapon he was holding was an airsoft gun.

We need to stop this bill before it comes into affect, which could be a while(The government is low at everything). However, if this bill passes it will be a domino affect, and many states are predicted to follow along with it. We need to stop this bill. not only will it ruin the airsoft business in California, it will also ruin the community.

Go to:
http://www.change.org/petitions/say-no-to-california-state-sb-798-the-anti-airsoft-bill
to help stop the bill. Make sure to sign it. we need your help

Thanks,
Shooter

 

[gunfather6]

This law was passed by the California State Senate a few days ago. I believe it is just awaiting the Governor's signature and he is going to sign it. This law torpedoes the entire airsoft industry in California, which is the vast majority of the vendors. Once again Californians pass feel good legislation that has disastrous effects on their economy. And people wonder why they are going bankrupt.

 

[hidden187]

And for those of you who dont have a friend who has a law degree, if the airsoft company's sue CA for imposing a unjust law, as long as they have a on going case any new laws enacted wont be put in affect against said company. But who knows what is going to happen, most likely criminals will paint there guns yellow to make cops think there fake when there not. Most likely as well no one thought of that when making this law.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

I posted a topic on this the day it came out, but good job posting the petition link. There area actually a number of them out there, some of them started by real steel shooters as well off of calguns.net.

And no, the bill is NOT going to the governors desk, it has to go through the state Assembly first. Ideally that would be the easiest place for us to stop it since the assembly likens to the House of representatives, and should be more influenced by their constituency, particular the financial repercussions of this bill.

Lastly I believe that Hidden has a really good point. I was thinking about this yesterday and I vaguely remember there being a court decision that basically stated that it being in the interest of the state (state being governing body) to preserve the well fare of its people, the state could not issue law that would be detrimental to an existing industry; similar to the idea that if you do something that later becomes a crime because of a law that passes you can't be incriminated for it. But then again, its been a long time since I've taken business law...

 

[gunfather6]

And no, the bill is NOT going to the governors desk, it has to go through the state Assembly first.

Yeah that was my fault for trusting internet sources and not understanding the checks and balances of the California legislature.

This is an update from Arniesairsoft. I don't have a law degree but I do spend a lot of time reading and enforcing law. It seems to me that the intent here is to push some level of liability ($10,000 fine) onto the airsoft vendors whose airsoft guns are used outside of legitimate, sanctioned, regulated airsoft events. Such as stupid kids having "backyard wars" in their local city park.

I have now seen that SB798 was amended. The coloration requirement has been removed entirely. Rather, the bill will now simply redefine airsoft guns as "imitation firearms" and not as "BB devices." There WILL be repercussions to that, but here's the critical sections of the law on imitation firearms, as best as I can uncover to be true and current:

Quote
20165. (a) Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases,
sells, manufactures, ships, transports, distributes, or receives, by
mail order or in any other manner, an imitation firearm, except as
authorized by this section, is liable for a civil fine in an action
brought by the city attorney or the district attorney of not more
than ten thousand dollars ($10,000) for each violation.
(B) The manufacture, purchase, sale, shipping, transport,
distribution, or receipt, by mail or in any other manner, of an
imitation firearm is authorized if the device is manufactured,
purchased, sold, shipped, transported, distributed, or received for
any of the following purposes:
(1) Solely for export in interstate or foreign commerce.
(2) Solely for lawful use in theatrical productions, including
motion picture, television, and stage productions.
(3) For use in a certified or regulated sporting event or
competition.
(4) For use in military or civil defense activities, or ceremonial
activities.
(5) For public displays authorized by public or private schools.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Ok, allow me to clarify this for you: first of all here is the website you need to track the bill:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sb_798&sess=CUR&house=B&search_type=email

Here is the SB798 text as it is being presented in its most current format:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_798_bill_20110413_amended_sen_v97.html

If you read through the current rendition and take into account the outside sections that are referenced and the parts that have changed this is what they are doing.

1. They have separated airsoft and pellet guns from replicas and toys, taking them one step closer to real steel. They have done this by defining "BB Device" and redefining "imitation firearm".

2. They are making it illegal to manufacture, transport or sell "BB Devices" that could be construed as "imitation firearms".

3. In amending PC 16700 (b) (2) they are back handily saying that if you DO paint the ENTIRE exterior of your "imitation firearm" in one of the colors provided then its OK to have as an imitation firearm.

So they still do have the color consideration in there. the good thing is that since they have amended it, it will have to pass both houses again until the same version passes both houses, then it will go to the governors desk. They have taken a straight forward bill that was bad, and made it worse and more complicated hoping that people wouldn't catch it.

Edit:

They also got rid of the barrel length consideration, which means they are going after ALL airsoft guns, so the sniper rifles that were essentially exempt from the original bill becaues of their barrel length are now included. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

[fuzzywolly]

I firmly believe this bill will not solve any issues at all. If anything, its going to make things worse. Not only will the CA economy be affected, but more danger will arise because of this bill. Now criminals will paint their real guns yellow and orange, cops will assume that what a person is holding is an imitation firearm, and people will get hurt.

The cops that confronted the 13 year old (see first post) made the right choice. I would have shot the kid as well. After all, the kid pulled out a gun, and whether it was real or fake, the cops had to make a judgement call. Last time I checked, if someone knowingly was confronted by police and pulled out a gun, then they should be shot.

Now criminals will be running around with yellow firearms. Perhaps another 13 year old kid is running around, this time with a REAL gun, but it is painted yellow. The cops confront him, the kid pulls out the gun. Should the cops shoot?

That is the question many people will have to worry about now. I know us airsofters should be worried, but if anything, I feel bad for the police forces in CA. I would not feel any safer if a kid pulled out a "yellow" gun on me rather than a "black" one.

 

[vindicareassassin]

Just to put all this into perspective for you, we in the UK went through all this a couple of years ago.

We were, and still do, live under the threat of having our hobby banned, due to the 'do-gooders' not understanding, or caring for that matter, what we do, which is why dressing up in flouresent boiler suits and playing paintball will always be acceptable, and dressing up like a soldier and shooting each other with a RIF will not :

We now have 2 seperate systems in effect, they are....

1/ Those of us that already have RIFs (Replica Fire Arm) were allowed to keep them, If, after the laws were passed, we required to purchase another RIF we had to prove we were a genuine airsofter and not some crim needing a gun to jack the nearest bank by passing a test to become registed with a unique number that goes on a regester, which you then have to quote when buying a new RIF.

The test...... Play 3 times at the same registered site within 2 months, this then lasts for a year, when you then have to go through the same process or be deleted.

2/ If you are over 18, baring in mind some sites here allow 14 year olds to play, anyone can purchase what are known as '2tone' guns, these are half black and half neon coloured plastic.

This has resulted in nothing more than making a RIF harder to purchase legaly, than your average farmers 12 bore or air rifle, yet jonny-no-good can still pop down the rough end of town and pick up a hand gun as easy as before the law was passed :

Also, since the introduction of this law, we have seen sites either be very strict on the modification/painting of these '2tone' weapons, or saying they must be wrapped in scrim but not modified in any way, or completely banning them altogether. This then limits new players to either where or when they play, or being left with no option than to hire a gun until they are registered, nice and profitable for the sites, not so for the poor 16 year old trying to save for his first RIF :-/

I know to sensible people these laws regarding multi coloured vs RIFs are stupid, and in alot of cases conflicting, and especialy when you consider they are so say to 'protect' the innocent few in what is essentialy, over here, a completely gun free society.

Just to throw another angle on it, my brother in-law is a british fire arms police officer, upon holding my G36 his words to me were, and I quote ' Fair play bruv, you wouldn't know the difference between this and the one I got in the back of me car, are these things legal?!', so going back to post 1, any trained police office in the world would of done the same.

My heart is sadened that yet again the 'few' manage to completly [email protected] it up for the sensible 'many', creating a knee jerk reaction by the 'ignorant' in power, but as they say 'thats life!' we just need to live with it , or work around it :-/

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Thanks Vindi! I have been curious as to how some of you have been able to play airsoft (i.e. members from the UK, France, Aus etc.). I had been a real steel shooter for years before I really got into airsoft and followed the issues closely through high school and college.

I am not sure what the field situation is like over in the UK, but in California it is pretty sad. The LA area has many many more fields, probably because the industry has really taken a home there. Up in my area (SF Bay Area) fields are scarce unless you are willing to drive 100-150mi for a game and most fields are lucky to get field time once or twice a month due to most of the fields being privately owned, shared land with paintballers or the fields simply can't turn a profit because of location or being so far apart.

As for the reasons this bill is being proposed, I don't think that anyone is confused by the reasoning. I have been following this topic in many places and have yet to find someone that disagrees with the premise of the legislation, just the method by which they are going about it. There are already laws in effect that should have prevented this kind of thing, and in the situation the officer acted correctly; alas the government feels the need to regulate stupidity and attempt to take the place of proper parenting.

 

[shooter891]

Alright, So the final conclusion is that it has been ammended, and needs to pass through the CA Congress again??

All I care about is that this bill doesn't get passed. Like many of you have said, it would tank the airsoft industry in CA.

^^ And i must definently agree with bobgeng. This whole incident goes to the roots of bad parenting. The teenager was not old enough to purchase his own gun, making the responsibility fall on the vendor of the gun, most likely the kids parents.

It makes me sad to think that one very good thing can be ruined by ONE PERSON, like vindicareassassin said. However, when your brother in law said that he wouldn't tell the difference, that makes sense. there is a demand for these kinds of guns because people want to get serious, like us, with MILSIM and "Playing Soldier".

People that but these guns however, like us, also need to realize that we can't go playing in a canyon, or public property.

 

[fuzzywolly]

I am not sure about where the 13 year old was able to get a hold of this gun, but my guess is he got it from a sporting goods store or Wal-Mart. Most kids that are walking around the street packing heat, whether real or fake, most likely did not buy it from an online store. Excuse me for the stereotype, but my guess is that these kids are from broken homes and have little to no money, their parents are not involved in their lives, and have little to no education (hence the stupidity). Therefore, I highly doubt they were able to purchase a GBB from an online store.

If anything, ban these toy guns from wal-mart, Dicks, and other places where they sell these crap toys. Most serious airsofters purchase their gear online, not at Dicks Sporting Goods. Serious airsofters do not run around aiming guns at people, let alone the police. So why doesn't the people who are trying to fix this "imitation gun problem" get their heads out of their ass and start thinking?

 

[shooter891]

^^ Agreed entirely. Nothing puts it better
~Shooter

 

[hidden187]

I firmly believe this bill will not solve any issues at all. If anything, its going to make things worse. Not only will the CA economy be affected, but more danger will arise because of this bill. Now criminals will paint their real guns yellow and orange, cops will assume that what a person is holding is an imitation firearm, and people will get hurt.

The cops that confronted the 13 year old (see first post) made the right choice. I would have shot the kid as well. After all, the kid pulled out a gun, and whether it was real or fake, the cops had to make a judgement call. Last time I checked, if someone knowingly was confronted by police and pulled out a gun, then they should be shot.

Now criminals will be running around with yellow firearms. Perhaps another 13 year old kid is running around, this time with a REAL gun, but it is painted yellow. The cops confront him, the kid pulls out the gun. Should the cops shoot?

That is the question many people will have to worry about now. I know us airsofters should be worried, but if anything, I feel bad for the police forces in CA. I would not feel any safer if a kid pulled out a "yellow" gun on me rather than a "black" one.

Yes im not the only one who thought of that, but really what is keeping someone from doing that.

Just got an email from redwolf and they are helping with trying to prevent the bill, nice to see help from across the pond. here was the pic i n the email if no one else got it.

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Alright, So the final conclusion is that it has been amended, and needs to pass through the CA Congress again??

Kind of... The bill must pass both houses in the same version. However, each house has the right to amend the bill before passing it. The idea is that eventually a 'middle ground' or acceptable rendition will be found and it will pass both houses and then go to the governors desk. From what I was following last night it had apparently passed the assembly; so now it is back to the senate, if it passes there without any changes it will go to the governors desk.

This said, perhaps it is time that the airsoft community starts writing directly to Jerry Brown and try to get some media on this to focus on the industry issues...

 

[vindicareassassin]

^^ its what we did, we petitioned virtualy everybody, from local councilers, to the Prime minister, the cheif of police, and on, and on..... It was a country wide affair. In the end they backed down from an all out ban and implemented the laws we now live under, though the threat still exists, as do-gooders will be do-gooders, and really cant help themselves, especialy if they dont understand, sadly they are the most dangerous of dangerous things :-/

 

[woogie]

Why don't those that make the laws understand that those that are going to do wrong wont follow the law anyway?!

The only thing they are doing is hurting those that are trying to follow the law and keep to them selves. But then again you have stupid people that try to get the police and LEO's to do things, just so they can turn around and sue someone for a quick buck.

 

[shooter891]

I hate that about America, not to be mean I live here, but really no one is willing to take responsibility for anything.
There was the guy that sued McDonalds for 30 million dollars because he spilled hot coffee on himself. It was all his fault and now there is a warning on every hot beverage because of it. People are not willing to take responsibility for thei own actions, and it's sad.

I have been to Europe several times, been all over, and I never noticed on warning sign. I like america's system no doubt about it, but I definently don't like the face that everyone can sue anyone for anything.

 

[sniper4ever]

I live in California, I have done a lot to try to stop this. Please tell friends and your Airsoft community to please try and help.

 

[vindicareassassin]

Why don't those that make the laws understand that those that are going to do wrong wont follow the law anyway?!

Ah, now, on a completly different political tac.... because they are all pretty much selfserving, power tripping, arseholes, with only a popularity contest to win at the forfront of their mind or they are just 1 of us, that, if you ask me are only missing 1 thing..... a ligature mark around their kneck

" title="" border="0"/> tiz why I've made it this far in life and never voted, and never will , and why I truely believe Guy Faulks had the right idea*

Anyone get the idea politics is not high in my top 10 things to talk about down the pub :-/

* To save anybody who doesn't know who Guy Faulks is, a breif history..... He was part of a group of people who tryed to blow up the houses of parliment and everyone in it, in London, England, sadly they failed, had they of succeded life in this country would be a whole lot different it also the reason we celabrate 'bonfire night' with fireworks etc

 

[bobgengeskahn]

Ah, now, on a completly different political tac.... because they are all pretty much selfserving, power tripping, arseholes, with only a popularity contest to win at the forfront of their mind or they are just 1 of us, that, if you ask me are only missing 1 thing..... a ligature mark around their kneck

" title="" border="0"/> tiz why I've made it this far in life and never voted, and never will , and why I truely believe Guy Faulks had the right idea*

Vindi, you are awesome. I spent university studying political science, namely international relations; hoping to see a light at the end of the mess... I ended up just falling down the rabbit hole, now I'm just a realist... but most would call me pessimistic