Curious about Krythera
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Seems like a prett good engin for a competitive price, but I'd recommend a used Fusion Engine with an Amped Airsoft nozzle and poppet, and a QEV banjo fitting that is sold on evike and elsewhere.
The Redline N7 is a close contender, but the Fusion Engine seems to have everything beat.
That being said, I own the F2 and really like it, but it's basically a more compact Fusion a Engine with the efficiency of an FE with the mentioned parts, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at things.
I picked the F2 after tons of searching and planning as it will easily be compatible with an air stock, while the FE can only accept the Redline air stock, which I don't like the look of and don't trust after having a really bad SFR reg, and seeing as the UGS regulator is a smaller MRS reg which I own and like, I think that I'll definitely go for that when I can.
But, if you don't plan on getting an air stock except the Redline one, go for the Fusyion Engine instead.
The Redline N7 is a close contender, but the Fusion Engine seems to have everything beat.
That being said, I own the F2 and really like it, but it's basically a more compact Fusion a Engine with the efficiency of an FE with the mentioned parts, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at things.
I picked the F2 after tons of searching and planning as it will easily be compatible with an air stock, while the FE can only accept the Redline air stock, which I don't like the look of and don't trust after having a really bad SFR reg, and seeing as the UGS regulator is a smaller MRS reg which I own and like, I think that I'll definitely go for that when I can.
But, if you don't plan on getting an air stock except the Redline one, go for the Fusyion Engine instead.
@SiliconeSword
I’m still early in my HPA research, but as I understand it, the F2 is just a modern (most up to date) compact Fusion Engine right?
The price of the Kythera certainly has some appeal, but between getting the donor gun, UGS stock, tanks, barrel, hopup, I’m looking at 1100 (Kythera) vs. 1300 (F1 F2 Fusion)…which in the grant scheme of things…shouldn’t be the deal breaker
The thing that appeals to me the most is the all mechanical aspect. It’s advertised as “waterproof” and supposedly it’s even more efficient on air than all other polarstar systems (however as my research is going, no one seem to be giving consistent shot numbers)
What’s the variation on your joule numbers if you happen to know? From what I can tell, people only vary by about .02 joules. I don’t know if I’m splitting hairs, but my current AEG vary by about .04 joules shot to shot.
I’m still early in my HPA research, but as I understand it, the F2 is just a modern (most up to date) compact Fusion Engine right?
The price of the Kythera certainly has some appeal, but between getting the donor gun, UGS stock, tanks, barrel, hopup, I’m looking at 1100 (Kythera) vs. 1300 (F1 F2 Fusion)…which in the grant scheme of things…shouldn’t be the deal breaker
The thing that appeals to me the most is the all mechanical aspect. It’s advertised as “waterproof” and supposedly it’s even more efficient on air than all other polarstar systems (however as my research is going, no one seem to be giving consistent shot numbers)
What’s the variation on your joule numbers if you happen to know? From what I can tell, people only vary by about .02 joules. I don’t know if I’m splitting hairs, but my current AEG vary by about .04 joules shot to shot.
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Pretty much.
It is cheaper new, but more expensive used compared to an FE plus those parts, so it end up being roughly the same overall, the only differences being that the F2 is supposedly capable of higher joules, and it has a clicks microswitch trigger while the F2 has a switch with zero effort at all.
The F2 does have the advantage of auto aligning with your old gearbox, while the FE sometimes requires shimming to center the nozzle to your bucking entrance, but that doesn't occur nearly as much as you may think.
The F2 in theory is les efficient than the FE after those parts and tuning but is more efficient out of the box, and the Kythera seems to be a bit of an odd duck like you said as it's supposedly the most efficient due to all air being used to fire the BB instead of venting a valve for a millisecond, but nobody I've talked to seems to be liking their Kythera, and some have sold them and gotten other engines.
About the shot counts for any engine, I think it's reasonable to be really vague like Polarstar, Redline, Wolverine, Raven, and the other ones are as everyone has a different bucking, barrel length, barrel bore, BB size, BB weight, and literally everything imaginable different, they really cant give a precise number, so they lowball of be on the safe side.
I am currently trying to sell my HPA body so I can buy a cooler one that weighs less, plus a different inner barrel and maybe hop chamber, so I can't give you consistency as I forgot what it was.
I do recall it being bad as I was figuring out R-hop, different nubs, FCU settings, engine stability, different buckings, and everything else, but I do think there is potential to be good as I have a friend who gets +-2 FPS with an Elite Force .32g BB at like 1.7J.
When you start getting parts for your gun, I suggest the following from my own experience.
MAXX ME Sport(you only need the standard arm that takes regular nubs)
G&G Blue flat hopped
FOW nub from shapeways or H-nub style nub
Action Army 6.01X??? AEG barrel(I used a Lambda 6.01 and liked my AA more)
R-hop for Action Army barrel
Plastic gearbox or RetroArms gearbox(purely weight)
For mods I would suggest
Barrel spacers made out of clear packing tape
RTV glue your bucking to your barrel over your R-hop for 100% stability and seal
Shim your hop chamber to keep to centered
Line every hollow cavity with aluminum tape and some sort of foam, even that 2mm craft foam sheet.
Besides all that, I strongly recommend First Strike tanks with an SLP spring(200-400 PSI) and I would suggest .40g-.48g BBs as that's what gave me the best results in terms of vertical and horizontal consistency as well as effective range and efficiency(since you get more joules with a heavy BB you can lower you PSI and adjust your FCU so you end up using less air to get the same joules as a light BB.
If you do plan on using light BBs I'd suggest steer clear of R-hop and similar systems as they don't usually play well with HPA since they won't hold the BB in place consistently due to less required pressure to apply adequate backspin.
It is cheaper new, but more expensive used compared to an FE plus those parts, so it end up being roughly the same overall, the only differences being that the F2 is supposedly capable of higher joules, and it has a clicks microswitch trigger while the F2 has a switch with zero effort at all.
The F2 does have the advantage of auto aligning with your old gearbox, while the FE sometimes requires shimming to center the nozzle to your bucking entrance, but that doesn't occur nearly as much as you may think.
The F2 in theory is les efficient than the FE after those parts and tuning but is more efficient out of the box, and the Kythera seems to be a bit of an odd duck like you said as it's supposedly the most efficient due to all air being used to fire the BB instead of venting a valve for a millisecond, but nobody I've talked to seems to be liking their Kythera, and some have sold them and gotten other engines.
About the shot counts for any engine, I think it's reasonable to be really vague like Polarstar, Redline, Wolverine, Raven, and the other ones are as everyone has a different bucking, barrel length, barrel bore, BB size, BB weight, and literally everything imaginable different, they really cant give a precise number, so they lowball of be on the safe side.
I am currently trying to sell my HPA body so I can buy a cooler one that weighs less, plus a different inner barrel and maybe hop chamber, so I can't give you consistency as I forgot what it was.
I do recall it being bad as I was figuring out R-hop, different nubs, FCU settings, engine stability, different buckings, and everything else, but I do think there is potential to be good as I have a friend who gets +-2 FPS with an Elite Force .32g BB at like 1.7J.
When you start getting parts for your gun, I suggest the following from my own experience.
MAXX ME Sport(you only need the standard arm that takes regular nubs)
G&G Blue flat hopped
FOW nub from shapeways or H-nub style nub
Action Army 6.01X??? AEG barrel(I used a Lambda 6.01 and liked my AA more)
R-hop for Action Army barrel
Plastic gearbox or RetroArms gearbox(purely weight)
For mods I would suggest
Barrel spacers made out of clear packing tape
RTV glue your bucking to your barrel over your R-hop for 100% stability and seal
Shim your hop chamber to keep to centered
Line every hollow cavity with aluminum tape and some sort of foam, even that 2mm craft foam sheet.
Besides all that, I strongly recommend First Strike tanks with an SLP spring(200-400 PSI) and I would suggest .40g-.48g BBs as that's what gave me the best results in terms of vertical and horizontal consistency as well as effective range and efficiency(since you get more joules with a heavy BB you can lower you PSI and adjust your FCU so you end up using less air to get the same joules as a light BB.
If you do plan on using light BBs I'd suggest steer clear of R-hop and similar systems as they don't usually play well with HPA since they won't hold the BB in place consistently due to less required pressure to apply adequate backspin.
@SiliconeSword
Thanx for the feedback, super helpful
+-2 FPS is amazing…that’s below .01 joule variation – that’s as "laser beams" as you can get
I hadn’t considered the plastic gearbox route, I’ll have to consider that as far as weight.
Currently I’m thinking:
-EMG Colt Licensed M4 SOPMOD Block 2 Airsoft AEG Rifle with Daniel Defense Rail System (Model: 9.5" MK18 350 FPS / Black) OR CYMA Platinum SR-25 QBS Airsoft AEG Designated Marksman Rifle (Model: 14.5" M-LOK)
-PolarStar "Kythera" HPA Engine (Or some other of PolarStar engine)
-PolarStar Universal Gas Stock UGS HPA Stock System (Model: Type 2 / TM Spec Receiver)
-Ninja Paintball 13/3000 HPA System Air Tank w/ Ninja Pro V2 (Color: Black) or First Strike 15ci/4500
-PDI barrel
-Maxx Model CNC Aluminum Hopup Chamber for M4 / M16 Series Airsoft AEG Rifles (Model: ME - PRO)
-Maple Leaf MR hop and omega tensioner
I don’t think I’d be willing to shoot .40 - .48g, that’s pushing 2 cent per bb…where as I’m doing around .5 cent per bb on .32. I hate to sound like the cheap guy… but that’s the different between a 40 dollar day of airsoft and 70 dollar day (my field is 30 dollar entrance fee)
Thanx for the feedback, super helpful
+-2 FPS is amazing…that’s below .01 joule variation – that’s as "laser beams" as you can get
I hadn’t considered the plastic gearbox route, I’ll have to consider that as far as weight.
Currently I’m thinking:
-EMG Colt Licensed M4 SOPMOD Block 2 Airsoft AEG Rifle with Daniel Defense Rail System (Model: 9.5" MK18 350 FPS / Black) OR CYMA Platinum SR-25 QBS Airsoft AEG Designated Marksman Rifle (Model: 14.5" M-LOK)
-PolarStar "Kythera" HPA Engine (Or some other of PolarStar engine)
-PolarStar Universal Gas Stock UGS HPA Stock System (Model: Type 2 / TM Spec Receiver)
-Ninja Paintball 13/3000 HPA System Air Tank w/ Ninja Pro V2 (Color: Black) or First Strike 15ci/4500
-PDI barrel
-Maxx Model CNC Aluminum Hopup Chamber for M4 / M16 Series Airsoft AEG Rifles (Model: ME - PRO)
-Maple Leaf MR hop and omega tensioner
I don’t think I’d be willing to shoot .40 - .48g, that’s pushing 2 cent per bb…where as I’m doing around .5 cent per bb on .32. I hate to sound like the cheap guy… but that’s the different between a 40 dollar day of airsoft and 70 dollar day (my field is 30 dollar entrance fee)
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At least on my team we have iirc 6 kytheras and everyone loves them. Once adjusted properly they are dope as hell! Super quiet, consistent, efficient, and no batteries whatsoever.
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I'd go for the First Strike 13/3000 as I think it's probably the best bang for the buck.
The Lambda barrel I had was very nice, but like I mentioned, my AA barrel was exactly as good in terms of performance, but 35% of the cost.
I imagine that the same can be said for PDI as the are extremely similar to Lambda.
The MAXX chamber is good because it is tight and has a good air seal, the nubs and arms aren't very important as R-hop in an HPA gun with light BBs is not good, so you're definitely better off with a FOW nub, roller nub, or H-nub and a bucking like the G&G blue as it is an improved version of the PDI W-hold.
So I'd just get the SPORT as it costs less and doesn't even need the concave nubs and their arm.
That is understandable, but like I mentioned, R-hop and R-hop style buckings don't play well with HPA as they require less pressure to apply hop, so when the nozzle loads a BB(HPA loads harder and faster than an AEG) the BB will be kicked forward different amounts each time, resulting in widely varying hop.
You can solve this with either heavier BBs so there's more pressure required to add hop and stop the BB in the same place, or you can switch to a mound style bucking or similar with a nub similar to a roller nub or H-nub so there's less surface area and more pressure to stop the BB while applying the right amount of hop to your BB.
That's good to know
@SiliconeSword
Do you have any suggestion on an exact plastic gearboxes? I feel like the ones I’m coming across are way too flimsy (or I don’t understand how little reinforcements HPA needs), as well tolerance being so low that I’d have shimming issue. What weight id your HPA setup right now if you happen to know?
I’ll have to research a bit more on your hopup, bucking, and nub suggestion. I don’t fully understand the mechanics of HPA enough to know why Rhop or Rhop like patch systems isn’t ideal. Based on what you said thought, would longer hop patches solved this issue? Would a krytac barrel window being a solution (it’s my understanding they default to using longer windows)?
@Pretzel
My only consider about krythera is FOMO…I fear I might want auto or burst and I’m out of luck. Even though I rarely use auto or burst now on my AEG
Do you have any suggestion on an exact plastic gearboxes? I feel like the ones I’m coming across are way too flimsy (or I don’t understand how little reinforcements HPA needs), as well tolerance being so low that I’d have shimming issue. What weight id your HPA setup right now if you happen to know?
I’ll have to research a bit more on your hopup, bucking, and nub suggestion. I don’t fully understand the mechanics of HPA enough to know why Rhop or Rhop like patch systems isn’t ideal. Based on what you said thought, would longer hop patches solved this issue? Would a krytac barrel window being a solution (it’s my understanding they default to using longer windows)?
@Pretzel
My only consider about krythera is FOMO…I fear I might want auto or burst and I’m out of luck. Even though I rarely use auto or burst now on my AEG
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There's some on Aliexpress that should fit, I'll find the link and DM you
HPA requires like zero strength, so plastic is perfect.
My gun weighed less than 4 pounds without a scope and mag, which is pretty awesome.
It's a 14.5 inch M-LOK handguard SPR, so it's pretty big.
HPA nozzles move faster and hit harder than an AEG nozzle, so they will push the BB in different depths each shot if there is not enough resistance.
R-hop gives more hop for less resistance, so it won't work well with HPA unless your hop is on really high or you are using sniper BBs.
You want the least surface area possible with HPA, not an ER-hop style window, as you want all the resistance of the hop condensed so it will hold the BB in place.
If you are even considering full auto, get something else.
HPA really isn't as complicated as you think, you basically just drop the engine in your gun and adjust your PSI and your fire control unit until you have good results.
It's definitely less complicated than an AEG as there's nothing that wants to get out of place or whatever.
HPA requires like zero strength, so plastic is perfect.
My gun weighed less than 4 pounds without a scope and mag, which is pretty awesome.
It's a 14.5 inch M-LOK handguard SPR, so it's pretty big.
HPA nozzles move faster and hit harder than an AEG nozzle, so they will push the BB in different depths each shot if there is not enough resistance.
R-hop gives more hop for less resistance, so it won't work well with HPA unless your hop is on really high or you are using sniper BBs.
You want the least surface area possible with HPA, not an ER-hop style window, as you want all the resistance of the hop condensed so it will hold the BB in place.
If you are even considering full auto, get something else.
HPA really isn't as complicated as you think, you basically just drop the engine in your gun and adjust your PSI and your fire control unit until you have good results.
It's definitely less complicated than an AEG as there's nothing that wants to get out of place or whatever.
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It's semi only pretty much everywhere around here, so... no worries for me hah.
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