[blackfoot1]

I mentioned my idea for a diamond shaped inner barrel in another thread, so I thought I'd explain my idea a little further.
Be warned, Microsoft Paint sucks the big one...


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Blue = BB
Red = Three point hop bucking
Black= Inner Barrel

The BB contacts the inner barrel at four points (2,4,8 and 10 o'clock).
In my head this MIGHT reduce the amount of bounce or vibration in the BB as it travels the length of the barrel. The three point bucking means you can adjust for backspin and left/right.
The gap below the BB should let gas/air pass underneath which would cause backspin (so very little hop would be needed).
I have no idea about the physics of airsoft or any knowledge of how such a barrel would be machined. I just thought I'd put my idea out there and see what comes of it.

 

[becklr1]

I like it. It reduces contact on the bottom which is some thing that kills back spin. I like it.

Te good news is it is not a diamond it is a square that is rotated. Thus, as far as machining I bet you can find a square tube, meaning a hollow 4 sided box. Here is a 1/4" inch. It is inside an outer barrel, who cares if the inner barrel is not round.

I like this a lot actually.

 

[quigly]

For the 3 point hop up to work, the 3 and 9 o clock buckings would have to be more like 2:30 and 9:30. If they were directly on the side the BB would have resistance as it was trying to spin backwards going through, possibly warping the bucking (tearing it from the bottom up). Good concept, and with some technical trial and error it could have good qualities. Another thing about it though is the hop up would have to be very wide to accommodate three separate acting precise holding units. It would end up like the size of Becks current hop up.

 

[blackfoot1]

I thought "Diamond" sounded a bit fancier than square (I'm already thinking of marketing lol).
To be honest, the three point hop was really just to seal the three other gaps leaving the bottom open for the gas to pass under the BB. It might work just as well if it was a normal round barrel at the top and a V formed into it at the bottom.
It's basically just to guide the BB down the barrel rather than letting it rattle down and go where it pleases.

 

[inthetallgrass]

This is quite a cool idea. This sounds like a job for nananananana Beck-man.

 

[razgriz22]

Very good idea..... hmm hope this works out.

 

[tarmageddon]

I'm not sure... remember the BB doesn't actually touch the barrel as it goes down it, it floats in a moving cylindrical jacket of air. I think the corners of the tube would cause turbulence which would cause the flight of the BB to be unpredictable.

I like the idea of increasing the surface area of the hop, but I think this would be best achieved by using a 90 degree curved "nub" at the top of the BB rather than coming all the way down to the sides as interference from both sides like that would work against each other and cause nothing but resistance.

Sorry man, I am a big fan of new ideas but it would only be counter-productive not to point out potential issues.

Always happy to be proved wrong though

 

[blackfoot1]

Same idea, four points of contact, but this time it's sort of like a straight cut land and groove.
(I had to upgrade my imageshack account and pay $5 a month for this piece of artwork, so you better enjoy it )

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Not sure what affect the four points would have on a standard hop. I could see it preventing backspin rather than aiding it.

Tarmageddon -
I'm not convinced there is a pillow of air or any sort of floating going on at all. I think that was made up by someone trying to sell tightbore barrels.
I am always glad to be proven wrong

 

[becklr1]

I assumed he meant the points for a hop up were not full length just the first inch or so.

The pillow of air thing is really for larger barrels, according to PDI 6.08 is the most accurate. The theory is tighter bore worse results. I actually had better luck with bigger bores myself.

 

[quigly]

There is a pocket of air around the BB, but it doesn't ride it down the barrel. The BB actually bounces in the barrel(thus a TBB is more accurate, among other reasons. In a perfect world the BB would ride the top of the barrel seamlessly down the length of it. There are barrels they are angled downwards at the ever so slightest angle creating that effect, and increasing accuracy immensely. And barrel that has contact points at 90 degrees or greater with cause friction with the BB slowing it down, and ruining any accuracy. I like the 3 point hopup idea still, as long as it wasn't at a sharp angle.

 

[becklr1]

Wait so you mean the barrel in the gun is aimed down 2 degrees or so, not the barrel is made with asymmetrical taper inside, right?

 

[quigly]

I belive it is option number 1. I may be mistaken on the specifics of them, as I have never touched em, only read about them.

 

[awagg]

Ohh... that sounds pretty good.

Not really a fan of this idea though. I think you have the right thought, but this seems like you will have massive air leaks.

 

[metallicafatcat]

^You mean LRBs? There not angled, there arced at a small radius. Quigly: you reasoning for why TBB is incorrect, but why quality barrels are accurate. If your logic is thought out, you'd realize it's less accurate because the BB would bounce more in a TBB barrel introducing more off-axis spin making the rounds less accurate. Ever realize why people like the Bioval .27s? In addition to the rounds being very consistent, their diameter is much smaller than the norm, in the realm of 5.85mm which means there is less of a possibility that the round contacts the barrel meaning less imparted spin therefore more consistency and accuracy.

 

[quigly]

It may bounce more times, but the angle due to the bounces will be reduced. And I find YOUR logic flawed in the case of the BBs, as I have always been told otherwise. Who knows, maybe the 20 odd people that have said the same thing were wrong.

 

[mroverkill]

LRB's actually are angled, most of them anyways. There are a number of different ways to create an LRB effect, one is by making the breech end slightly higher than the muzzle, the other is the bend the barrel, and Sheriff used a third design which utilized a slot running the length of the top of the barrel which I am still unclear as to the operation of.

 

[metallicafatcat]

Quite frankly, it really is a mystery. I have contacts in America and Japan saying that wider is better. Also, the angle is a flawed reference for us snipers. As the range gets further the angle is magnified and that is what we don't want. The problem with TBBs is that there are masses of people out there and TONS of inconclusive tests which leads to false results. Unless they have everything without any variables, the test will be flawed, and the accuracy results skewered.

 

[awagg]

It may bounce more times, but the angle due to the bounces will be reduced. And I find YOUR logic flawed in the case of the BBs, as I have always been told otherwise. Who knows, maybe the 20 odd people that have said the same thing were wrong.

The problem with the bounces is that every time it bounces, the hop up backspin is thrown off. Therefore, and this has been said by manufacturers, and has been tested as much as people can with only their free time (no Ph.D airsoft scientists, I'm afraid), that the tight bore barrels will give great accuracy at close range, where the fine, fine spins of the hop up won't really matter. However, they start mattering once you get to a further distance... and it's beneficial to have a wider bore barrel.

Another thing is that on forums, most of what you see is regurgitation, and those people are just repeating what others say. Also, as of recently, the tighter is better theory has been disproven.

And, oooh, company idea! We could sell "sniper rifle" bb's, with a smaller diameter, and hype their accuracy and amazingness in sniper rifles, and then sell CQB bb's that we will also hype like crazy, about their higher fps attributes and accuracy close up.

 

[quigly]

he tight bore barrels will give great accuracy at close range, where the fine, fine spins of the hop up won't really matter. However, they start mattering once you get to a further distance... and it's beneficial to have a wider bore barrel.

That is a good point. The information I had was from people who are using AEGs, not bolt turners. Thank you for throwing that out there.

 

[sniperninja]

This is a pretty good idea, but I would think it would work better with a combination of #1 and #2.