[phearairsoft]

Hey guys,

So I am starting to try to prep. for my next big project and I have fallen in love with the idea of a DMR. Right now I have two different plans that will be centered around two different guns.

1st- Base gun will be a KWA KM4-SR10
Upgrades:
-Madbull 6.03 509mm tightbore barrel with a madbull barrel extension to cover it up
-Shim it with systema shims
-G&P m160 motor or JG blue motor
-Would like to find some 9mm bushings, so I don't have to use bearings
-Most likely a Guarder SP130 (target FPS is around 470-480)
-Systema area 1000 cylinder type 0 (or any other non ported cylinder)
-will also wire to deans and add an AB Mosfet
-Firefly flat nub (or whatever is needed for the flat hop mod) or systema bucking with mound removed and SCS nub
Total cost: about $220 as I all ready own the base gun

My second plan that I have at the moment uses an G&G m14 vet. as the base gun
Upgrades:
-JG gears
-G&P m140 motor or custom G&P m160, though maybe a systema
-Prometheus Polycarb piston and polycarb ported piston head with baring
-Maybe a Systema Cylinder I'm not sure on how the stock one does
-Guarder SP130 spring (with a target FPS of 470-480)
-AB Mosfet wired to deans
-Not 100% sure if m14 hopups are able to use normal nubs or buckings, so the plan at the moment is Systema bucking with mound removed and SCS nub, or flat hop mod
-Madbull 6.03 500mm Tight bore barrel
Total cost: about $600

Do you guys think that the sr10 could be converted into an DMR that can hit targets at 250-275 feet? Both guns will have the normal DIY mods done such as compresion tests and stuff of that nature. I would pref. to make the sr10 into a DMR so that way I dont have to pay $350 for the base gun alone, and I can spend that on sr10 upgrades. Also did I miss anything?

Thanks

"Texan" from PHEARairsoft

 

[the3rdeye88]

The G&G veteran already has a 6.04 and an m130 spring. It will reach out there accurately. Look up some reviews for it before you make an order.

And you need to make an intro post in the beginners section. I am not a mod, but they will tell you to anyway.

 

[explosive]

Hey guys,

So I am starting to try to prep. for my next big project and I have fallen in love with the idea of a DMR. Right now I have two different plans that will be centered around two different guns.

1st- Base gun will be a KWA KM4-SR10
Upgrades:
-Madbull 6.03 509mm tightbore barrel with a madbull barrel extension to cover it up < stock barrel will out perform
-Shim it with systema shims < WHY? no real need for this. If you know how to properly shim, inspect the gears. You may or may not
need a single shim.
-G&P m160 motor or JG blue motor < not needed
-Would like to find some 9mm bushings, so I don't have to use bearings Some 9mm bushings will not fit or work with a 2GX mechbox. You can purchase every brand to see what works and what doesn't, or leave the stock KWA bearing bushings alone and not have any issues
-Most likely a Guarder SP130 (target FPS is around 470-480) more than likely your FPS will be over 500-520 with a SP130 in a KWA. A regular M130 will put you in the high 400's.
-Systema area 1000 cylinder type 0 (or any other non ported cylinder) Save your money! Spend it on bb's.
Stock KWA compression parts are outstanding. Why tinker???
-will also wire to deans and add an AB Mosfet thumbs up on the Deans. Will increase ROF. AB mosfet, really not required, but if you want to spend the money on a mosfet, go for it!
-Firefly flat nub (or whatever is needed for the flat hop mod) or systema bucking with mound removed and SCS nub buckings and barrels when it comes to a KWA is a lengthy discussion. kwa forums has a ton of post already up on the subject.
Total cost: about $220 as I all ready own the base gun

My second plan that I have at the moment uses an G&G m14 vet. as the base gun
Upgrades:
-JG gears rock solid gears. check out SHS gears too
-G&P m140 motor or custom G&P m160, though maybe a systema
-Prometheus Polycarb piston and polycarb ported piston head with baring
-Maybe a Systema Cylinder I'm not sure on how the stock one does
-Guarder SP130 spring (with a target FPS of 470-480)
-AB Mosfet wired to deans
-Not 100% sure if m14 hopups are able to use normal nubs or buckings, so the plan at the moment is Systema bucking with mound removed and SCS nub, or flat hop mod
-Madbull 6.03 500mm Tight bore barrel
Total cost: about $600

Do you guys think that the sr10 could be converted into an DMR that can hit targets at 250-275 feet? Both guns will have the normal DIY mods done such as compresion tests and stuff of that nature. I would pref. to make the sr10 into a DMR so that way I dont have to pay $350 for the base gun alone, and I can spend that on sr10 upgrades. Also did I miss anything?

Thanks

"Texan" from PHEARairsoft

^orange

Funny, I own both a KWA SR10 and G&G M14. I've tuned both of them and achieve solid results from both of them. The M14 requiring more DYI mods and internal upgrades vs. my SR10.

I put a SP120 spring and PDI barrel into my SR10 and was able to hit a 4' tall utility box @ 273ft multiple times. I ended up installing a Matrix M113 spring into my SR10 & current FPS is 398-405fps.
Basically my SR10 is having an identity crisis. Doesn't know if it wants to be a DMR, or assault rifle. With the M113 spring and 433mm PDI barrel I can land bb's at 220-230 feet.

My G&G M14 I did some of Vindi's holygrail DYI mods. A couple of my own mods I experimented with. Also put some heat shrink on the trigger lever & made the trigger pull a bit better. I really like the G&G short torque motor in mine and would recommend. I have a Element M120 spring installed (max 460 fps).
Stock compression parts and gears. I immediately upgraded the tappet plate and air nozzle, but I found during inspection the plastic was brittle. I bought a G&G reinforced V4 tappet plate and a Aluminum Deepfire AUG air nozzle. Bought a cheap 520mm Systema barrel. Put a PDI W-hold bucking on with stock nub and I ended up with a highly accurate M14. I can 100%, easily hit the back side of a regular aluminum mail box over and over again at 190 +/- feet.
I measure my shots and have some known distance targets. The plus/minus on distance is the exact spot I stand. I have an area I shoot from, but that can vary with in 3 feet.

SR10 even with a 425 barrel can be an outstanding DMR.
With different style flash hiders that conceal the inner barrels
inside them, you can fit up to a 455mm barrel in a SR10 without
a mock suppressor, or new outer barrel installation.

My guns:

 

[phearairsoft]

^ Lol both of the guns I'm debating on

What one would you personally recommend taking into account cost, weight (tall and skinny here

), ease of upgrading, and performance? I really like the look of that m14 you have there. Also thanks for the input on upgrades, will change around list accordingly.

Thanks

 

[explosive]

The SR10 I barely had to do a thing with it and it's performance was very good.

The M14 with just a few minor upgrades it's performance was very good also.
Though the M14 has better accuracy and a flatter shot over 200ft, but there
is also a 60fps difference.

SR10 cost more up front, but gives you much more flexibility and you can spend more on rail accessories than you would a M14.

M14 is about $255 (off the top of my head guess-ti-mate).
I put installed:
Guarder V3 spring guide
Deepfire aluminum AUG air nozzle
Element M120 spring
G&G Reinforced V4 Tappet plate
G&G short torque motor
Systema barrel 520mm - amazing for $30
PDI w-hold bucking.

G&G mid caps are difficult to find. I believe Classic Army mid caps even more difficult to come across these days. I used both in a G&G M14 and prefer G&G mids anyway. Still a difficult magazine to come across and pricey.

To me, both guns are really easy to work on. The G&G M14 being a bit more intimidating at first & slightly over whelming until you become familiar with 'em. That could be said about KWA SR10's, but I was very familiar with Armalites and then V2 mechboxes when I got my SR10.


SR10 is lighter in weight and a bit more flexible in all around usage. Shooting a M14 can be a pure joy and really give you that sniper rifle feeling.

 

[dhm078]

I would actually agree with what the OP said regarding some of the mods to the KWA. The motor will provide better trigger response than the KWA motor, which is just your average ferrous magnet motor, wound neither for much torque nor speed. I agree with shims too. Those zinc-alloy gearbox shells aren't cast to the best tolerances. There is variation, so KWA's self-shimming of sorts errs on the loose side a bit. I however would opt for thinner shims than Systema though, such as G&P. I have used enough Madbull barrels and KWAs to feel that the Madbull will outpreform the KWA. However, the KWA is still pretty good. To that end, if you're going to switch it, I would suggest going all the way and get a Prometheus, PDI or Edgi. I also see no need to go all the way to 509mm, I'd keep it around 455mm. The type 0 cylinder's extra volume will probably help a bit with heavy ammo and longer barrels. And I agree that bearings in high-power guns is never a good idea, but you sadly don't have much of a choice since the only 9mm bushings are the oil-retaining ones which are known to eat gear axles. I will also add that while I do recommend trying different things with the hop-up, you'll probably have difficulty as the KWA chamber is rather tight. The supposed solution being the "k-cut" barrels which have a narrower outer diameter at the hop-up end, but personally I see it as just another way in which KWA limits your parts choices. The stock setup is quite accurate, but the 2GX bucking doesn't like high power so much. I suggest trying it, but if it doesn't work, it may be advantageous to get a new chamber to allow you your choice of bucking and barrel (this may require modifying or replacing the nozzle). I would also suggest getting a non-metal piston head and perhaps using sorbothane on the cylinder head. The reason being, despite that the stock parts seal well, using a metal piston head at high power risks cracking your mechbox shell, despite the heavy reinforcement. I have seen it happen with KWAs several times.

Your parts list for the M14 looks solid to me. The hop-up uses normal buckings, nubs and barrels. I agree with Explosive that upgrading the nozzle is a good idea. You want one with an o-ring, and the stock one doesn't have one. I don't think you need to replace the cylinder though. Like the KWA, the G&G comes stock with a nice barrel that I wouldn't bother changing unless you're going all the way to Prometheus, PDI or Edgi.

If I were you, I'd also look into some of the cheaper ACM motors. The G&P M160 is good, but quite overpriced as compared to similar torque motors from SHS, Element, JG, 5KU, and a bunch of others. Since you mentioned them, I'd stay away from the Systema motors, as they are flawed in several ways and outrageously overpriced. The G&P M140 as I recall uses ferrous magnet motors, the M160 which uses neodymium magnets is far superior, as are the aforementioned ACM torque motors.

Hope that helps.

 

[explosive]

With high fps set ups in kwa, sure a better motor & shims.
Agree with SHS motor & G&P shims.

Mid to upper 400's I had no issue with aluminum piston head.
Pushing 500 plus fps I do agree on better motor, a shim or two & different piston head.
Correct about 2Gx bucking issues with high fps builds.

My experience with madbull barrels in kwa's has been mediocre.
I install madbulls into g&p, classic army, g&g etc and see better results.
A stock kwa barrel that's well broken in had better accuracy then a new 455mm madbull barrel.
I ensured proper installation of both barrels.

I polished the stock g&g m14 cylinder. Silicon glued the cylinder head in the cylinder & new oring on piston head.
Achieved very good compression. I replaced the stock air nozzle mainly because the stock nozzle snapped in two almost immediately. Deepfire nozzle comes with an oring. Really performs well.

 

[the3rdeye88]

Mine is completely stock, for now.

 

[explosive]

Mine is completely stock, for now.

Can I borrow for an up coming 'Nam game?

**or at least your magazines!

beautiful classic look!
very nice

Veteran? though looks like the standard M14 with (fake) wood stock.

 

[the3rdeye88]

It's a Veteran alright and that is a real walnut stock. Sadly my high cap broke and I can't even use her.