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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently my friend's Double Eagle AX-15 arrived which I helped him pick out, and while adding a Maple Leaf 2021 80° bucking to it, I noticed this really odd feature that I will start to experiment with, which is this odd groove below the hop window.
I recall that the Poseidon something or other, a TNT😬 barrel, an Italian barrel, maybe an EdGi barrel, and a $40 gimmicky 3D printed barrel lap thing from HS5 back in the day, all of which claimed better accuracy.
Now I don't doubt that this could boost accuracy as I have been learning that BB placement is EXTREMELY important for maximum performance, but all of these systems claim to achieve the same thing, but with different methods.
For example, the Poseidon has a full length groove on the bottom of the barrel, the TNT had a nub, and a different one with two nubs side by side, and the Italian barrel and HS5 shit had three full length grooves, which HS5 claimed the top two to add backspin. I don't doubt the backspin thing, but that's sort of a dumb thing to say as that's also what an LRB AND a hop do, both of which don't tank your gas efficiency or trigger response/bolt pull. Also, the HS5 shit was said to work with the two of these three grooves on the bottom and the single on the top and the other way around, while the Italian one had the two on the bottom, not the other way around you'd expect.
But anyways, here's pictures of the thing, these were difficult to take with my phone since macros are hard.
One more thing, this barrel is REALLY DAMN NICE, like really nice. The window doesn't impress me, neither do the grooves(grooves are grooves are grooves are grooves though), and I'm not sure how on spec the OD are, or what ID is, but the bore is really damn good. Like, with a tissue and fine metal polish it would essentially be perfect.
I will try and get this gun to a decent level without doing anything to the barrel, and I will then use it as a test gun as well as compare lapping on it since the barrel seems like a Prometheus BC Bright or an EdGi, almost no improvement from lapping.

The groove is not centered if you're using the bottom alignment groove as a guide point, or the window isn't centered, or the bottom groove isn't centered, but this is obviously not 100% legit. The groove is also not straight, it seems to hook to the left, as it was likely done by an intoxicated Chinese sweatshop ape with a Dremel from Wish.
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Note the deformed edges where it looks like where the BB goes, I'm not sure if this is from BBs deforming this, or if it was purposeful. It does have about 3 mags through it in this picture though, so maybe 450 rounds.
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Hmmm that’s interesting. I feel like it COULD help with aligning the bb before it’s fired. Since applied hop kind of holds bb in place, it would keep it in that groove, being perfectly centered. Add in perfect nozzle length to that equation and consistency would improve in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think that it's a very interesting and possibly promising idea, but could have had a better execution. I do agree with the scratches, as it is proven that octagonal/forged and FX Smooth Twist barrels shoot further than normal rifled barrels since they form the outside of a bullet to be a smooth shape instead of 3 to 14 square grooves with rough edges, dramatically lowering the actual BC of the projectile. No reason this can't apply to airsoft in this scenario.

I think that if the edges were rounded more it would achieve the same thing but be more BB friendly, and would last longer, especially with ceramics. I have a feeling that a 5.95 lapping rod to make a groove with the exact curvature of a BB would be ideal so you get 100% support on the bottom. With this there's two points of contact, where with some barrels there's a single point but maybe more contact. This would mean that a widebore would be worse since there's a smaller point of contact, while maybe a 5.98 barrel would be more accurate since there's more contact/centering.

I will definitely be trying out various things with this, as I've reached the point where I'm running out of things to do, and I'm almost done building a homemade MTW, and am starting a new bullpup sniper project.
 

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Wasn't something like this tried with the miracle barrel and was almost universally accepted as trash? Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, I can't recall. Either way, one would be able to achieve the same effect with the bucking (assuming the contact patch is wide and long enough) and the right arm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh yeah, not much info on that, and not many owners talking about it, or they're all hiding from me.

Some guy messaged me on for barrel lapping services and wanted me to lap two Poseidon Air Cushion barrels and said that he decided they were his favorite. Those have a full length groove, what looks like a decent finish, and a chrome plating over what is probably brass. I don't think that this guy was some master tech or barrel Jedi since he was paying me to lap barrels, but it sounded like he had used a number of regular barrels and took a liking to those Poseidon ones.
This gives me confidence that there is some truth to the idea, plus it actually makes physical sense compared to the now aged widebore vs tightbore debate.

For the doing the same thing with a contact patch or nub, I think that it can be done since R-hop and that style bucking plus fang buckings do this to an extent already, and nubs that are concave or essentially concave should also achieve that, but I do not see a piece of rubber being as rigid as a smooth groove in metal, so I think that better results should be found with a barrel groove. Obviously you'd want to use both, which is what I will be trying out.

One thing with this is I think it must kill FPS by a good bit, especially the Poseidon with the full length grooves, but I think that a very wide and shallow groove like I mentioned would probably be the ideal thing overall.
 

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Honestly with how rough it looks are you sure it's not a manufacturing error?

If it was smooth I could see why someone would think it would aid feeding. Although surely this channel becomes irrelevant the moment you use full auto? I would think a BB doesn't have enough time to centre before it's fired if anything it's just causing additional unintended friction which may mess with the hop settings?

Semi auto if it was smooth and straight maybe it would help if using a standard hop rubber nub design. As the BB would enter the hop rubber feed lips than centre itself under hop nub (although a concave nub probably achieves a similar action anyway) and try to repeat spin being achieved directly vertically each shot.

Looks like a waste of metal and FPS to me though.
 

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I have one of these poseidon barrels, wide bore at the muzzle and had this groove.
I 100% buy the theory of it "centering" the bb, however as long as your bore is close to perfectly round and the hop pressure come from top center, your bb will be centered too. This groove in reality just adds more liability as it has to be dead center and symmetrical.
compared it to a Prometheus gen2 barrel, didn't notice any difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, I think that if the whole barrel was done with more care and a tighter bore it would be a much more significant thing, but as it is I don't think it's too much more than a regular barrel. I do think that the idea behind this is 100% worth looking into for me, but this example doesn't seem too great.
Still, I'm glad that Double Eagle is innovating in airsoft, something I see very little of anymore.
 

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Yeah, I think that if the whole barrel was done with more care and a tighter bore it would be a much more significant thing, but as it is I don't think it's too much more than a regular barrel. I do think that the idea behind this is 100% worth looking into for me, but this example doesn't seem too great.
Still, I'm glad that Double Eagle is innovating in airsoft, something I see very little of anymore.
After handling a double eagle utr45 I'm shocked at the quality and value they are putting out (in a good way). The fact it had more features than any other stock gun even 2x it's cost is insane and it felt rock solid build quality. They are putting a lot of manufacturers to shame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, the thing 100% feels like a real AR-15 save for how the receiver doesn't suck the heat out of my hands, and everything seems great. Obviously the hop chamber isn't top tier, but with half an hour of mods it can outdo any other chamber I bet. Overall, this is 100% the best AEG for less than $300 right now, as the CYMA Platinum is now really expensive. Also, Combat Machines cost like $320 now for a poly gun, and I doubt they have any of these parts, especially the mosfet with adjustable fire modes and pre cocking.
 
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