ENGLAND!!
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HAHA I'M IN IRELAND. We don't need neon guns, clear guns or orange tips. We also don't have to over a certain age to play. We have FPS restrictions though 
(I was only kidding on the Haha part)
Well then get your UKRA license as soon as possible and cover your gun in gunwrap in game.
Oh and watch you capitol I's
(I was only kidding on the Haha part)
Well then get your UKRA license as soon as possible and cover your gun in gunwrap in game.
Oh and watch you capitol I's
Wrap the neon!, thats what I do. Get some of that Crepe bandage (the stuff you wrap a sprain with, tescos sell it for a quid) and spray it in earth tones. check out picks of In the tall grasses L96 (particularly the scope) in his silencing a rifle guide to get the general idea. You'll want a rifle wrap anyway even if you had one of the sexy paint jobs you see on here.
Where abouts in England do you play?
Where abouts in England do you play?
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127 Posts
Are you sure you're not allowed to paint the gun?
I also live in England and although I must admit I haven't done thorough research into the exact wording of the law (as I am in the process of applying for UKARA now) but the way I understand it UK retailers are not allowed to SELL you a RIF without the Kermit spray job unless you are UKARA registered, but I don't believe that extends to what you do with it after.
Remember, UKARA stands for United Kingdom Airsoft RETAILERS Association, so with the emphasis on retail their involvement ends once the weapon is sold. Of course you would not be allowed to brandish the gun in public without the neon paint job, but that applies to UKARA members as well.
Examples of similar laws in the UK:
Alcohol, where it is illegal to SELL alcohol to under 18s, but it is not illegal to allow an under 18 to drink in the privacy of your own home, provided the alcohol was not procured specifically for their consumption.
I also own a Jaguar with a bonnet (hood in the USA) emblem. Jaguar aren't allowed to SELL the car with the emblem fitted as they are considered a danger to pedestrians, but it is perfectly legal to fit the emblem after you have bought the car (although still illegal to run people over in it
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The other consideration to take into account is that UKARA members are registered with the local police, so that if they get a call from the neighbours complaining that they have seen you putting "the gun the terrorists have on the news" into the back of your car, they don't send the local TFU down to show you what a REAL 9mm round hurts like.
So in summary the way I see it you wouldn't be breaking any laws by painting your gun, and as long as you don't use it in such a manner that provokes the local police to kill you, you should be fine, however I would check this information either with the citizens advice bureau or your local police first, and if you DO confirm it's legal and you DO paint it I would strongly advise telling the local police that you have a Realistic Imitation Firearm to prevent any misunderstandings.
Good luck,
T
I also live in England and although I must admit I haven't done thorough research into the exact wording of the law (as I am in the process of applying for UKARA now) but the way I understand it UK retailers are not allowed to SELL you a RIF without the Kermit spray job unless you are UKARA registered, but I don't believe that extends to what you do with it after.
Remember, UKARA stands for United Kingdom Airsoft RETAILERS Association, so with the emphasis on retail their involvement ends once the weapon is sold. Of course you would not be allowed to brandish the gun in public without the neon paint job, but that applies to UKARA members as well.
Examples of similar laws in the UK:
Alcohol, where it is illegal to SELL alcohol to under 18s, but it is not illegal to allow an under 18 to drink in the privacy of your own home, provided the alcohol was not procured specifically for their consumption.
I also own a Jaguar with a bonnet (hood in the USA) emblem. Jaguar aren't allowed to SELL the car with the emblem fitted as they are considered a danger to pedestrians, but it is perfectly legal to fit the emblem after you have bought the car (although still illegal to run people over in it
The other consideration to take into account is that UKARA members are registered with the local police, so that if they get a call from the neighbours complaining that they have seen you putting "the gun the terrorists have on the news" into the back of your car, they don't send the local TFU down to show you what a REAL 9mm round hurts like.
So in summary the way I see it you wouldn't be breaking any laws by painting your gun, and as long as you don't use it in such a manner that provokes the local police to kill you, you should be fine, however I would check this information either with the citizens advice bureau or your local police first, and if you DO confirm it's legal and you DO paint it I would strongly advise telling the local police that you have a Realistic Imitation Firearm to prevent any misunderstandings.
Good luck,
T
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127 Posts
I have looked into this a little more, I have to admit that the best answers I found were on Wikipedia, which, being a Wiki (a page that can be altered by anyone) and therefore NOT a watertight source of information, however in general the information can be deemed to be fairly accurate as it would be moderated if it were flagged as not so.
There is a LOT of jargon on there and it is clear that the position regarding airsofters using RIFs in UK law is somewhat vague, however this paragraph is most relevant to your cause in my opinion:
"As long as a person can prove that they are an airsoft skirmisher, they may purchase RIFs. This can be done successfully by either joining UKARA (although this is not a legal requirement, and as such, is not recognised by the Home Office as having any legal authority over airsoft skirmishers) or other means, such as ordering a RIF from outside the UK and ensuring the parcel is marked in such a fashion that if Customs were to stop the parcel they can check the purchaser's validity to purchase said RIF."
Now, a RIF is NOT a painted "Kermit" gun. A RIF is the realistic looking version, whether black or camo or whatever. Basically the gist of the above statement is that you may own a RIF so long as you can prove you are an airsoft skirmisher. UKARA is ONE way of proving this, and happens to be the one recognised by UK airsoft retailers, however UKARA is NOT legally recognised and as such is NOT a legal requirement for owning a RIF.
To put it in even MORE basic terms, you can paint your gun, or buy a non-kermit gun from whoever will sell it to you, as long as you can PROVE you use it for airsoft and not robbing banks.
EDIT: As a foot-note to this UKARA themselves make the point that painting a kermit to look like a RIF could probably be construed as manufacture. The specific law that applies is the VCRA (violent crime reduction act) which prohibits "sale, import or manufacture" of RIFs, but which makes a "specific defence" for airsoft skirmishers. UKARA is the easiest and most recognised way of proving you are an airsoft skirmisher, but not the ONLY way.
Also, UK law is based largely on common sense interpretation, and remember, the law only get involved if you give them reason to (they dont go door to door looking for crime) If you draw attention to yourself and your gun (especially by using it in a threatening or criminal manner) and the police find out that you have never been airsofting in your life they will probably throw the book at you. However if they make a routine stop and find you and your mates en-route to a registered airsoft site with your RIFs and a whole ton of pictures of you skirmishing the previous week you will most likely be told to have fun.
Bottom line, if you are who you say you are and your motives are genuinely innocent you'll be fine.
There is a LOT of jargon on there and it is clear that the position regarding airsofters using RIFs in UK law is somewhat vague, however this paragraph is most relevant to your cause in my opinion:
"As long as a person can prove that they are an airsoft skirmisher, they may purchase RIFs. This can be done successfully by either joining UKARA (although this is not a legal requirement, and as such, is not recognised by the Home Office as having any legal authority over airsoft skirmishers) or other means, such as ordering a RIF from outside the UK and ensuring the parcel is marked in such a fashion that if Customs were to stop the parcel they can check the purchaser's validity to purchase said RIF."
Now, a RIF is NOT a painted "Kermit" gun. A RIF is the realistic looking version, whether black or camo or whatever. Basically the gist of the above statement is that you may own a RIF so long as you can prove you are an airsoft skirmisher. UKARA is ONE way of proving this, and happens to be the one recognised by UK airsoft retailers, however UKARA is NOT legally recognised and as such is NOT a legal requirement for owning a RIF.
To put it in even MORE basic terms, you can paint your gun, or buy a non-kermit gun from whoever will sell it to you, as long as you can PROVE you use it for airsoft and not robbing banks.
EDIT: As a foot-note to this UKARA themselves make the point that painting a kermit to look like a RIF could probably be construed as manufacture. The specific law that applies is the VCRA (violent crime reduction act) which prohibits "sale, import or manufacture" of RIFs, but which makes a "specific defence" for airsoft skirmishers. UKARA is the easiest and most recognised way of proving you are an airsoft skirmisher, but not the ONLY way.
Also, UK law is based largely on common sense interpretation, and remember, the law only get involved if you give them reason to (they dont go door to door looking for crime) If you draw attention to yourself and your gun (especially by using it in a threatening or criminal manner) and the police find out that you have never been airsofting in your life they will probably throw the book at you. However if they make a routine stop and find you and your mates en-route to a registered airsoft site with your RIFs and a whole ton of pictures of you skirmishing the previous week you will most likely be told to have fun.
Bottom line, if you are who you say you are and your motives are genuinely innocent you'll be fine.
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205 Posts
If you bought the gun as a Two-Tone and you're not a registered player and then you paint it, you are breaking the law.
Permanently modifying a non realistic imitation firearm (painting it) to make it look like a RIF is looked at in the same way as someone modifying a deactivated firearm to fire live rounds.
This is why you can't order spray paint at the same time as ordering a Two-Tone gun online (from any reputable retailer).
Permanently modifying a non realistic imitation firearm (painting it) to make it look like a RIF is looked at in the same way as someone modifying a deactivated firearm to fire live rounds.
This is why you can't order spray paint at the same time as ordering a Two-Tone gun online (from any reputable retailer).
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127 Posts
This is semi-true, only you dont have to be a REGISTERED player, you just have to be able to prove that you are an airsoft skirmisher. UKARA is NOT a legal requirement or a legally recognised governing body. It IS one method of proving you are a skirmisher but NOT the only way.blackfoot1 said:
Yes and no. It IS considered to be "manufacturing" a RIF, and therefore dealt with under the 2006 Violent Crimes Reduction Act which prohibits the sale, manufacture and import of RIFs. However airsoft skirmishers have a specific defence under the VCRA which allows them exemption providing they can prove they are skirmishers.blackfoot1 said:
An airsoft skirmisher would have no defence however against modifying a de-activated weapon to fire live rounds as this would make it a firearm, not a RIF, and would come under firearms licencing laws worded in the 1997 Firearms Act not the 2006 VCRA, so saying that you would be treated in the same way for each "offence" is not strictly true as they are actually dealt with under totally different sections of the law.
This is true in the sense that anyone selling either RIFs, or the facility to manufacture RIFs (a two-tone gun and paint could be seen as manufacturing components for a RIF) have to make sure that they take appropriate and responsible steps to ensure that the person they are selling either a RIF or the manufacturing components to is an airsoft skirmisher (in the same way that an off-licence has to take appropriate steps to ensure they are not selling to someone under the age of 18) however it is not actually ILLEGAL for the retailers to send you a two-tone gun and some paint, providing they are 100% sure you are a skirmisher.blackfoot1 said:
The reason UK retailers all ask for UKARA now is because it is an industry-standardised way of proving you are a skirmisher. In theory you could send them some ID and a whole ton of photos, witness statements or other supporting evidence and this would be just as good as UKARA membership, but the man-hours required to process that sort of information would be impractical so they use UKARA instead.
So again, just to summarise:
1) Painting a two-tone gun to look like a real gun consitutes "manufacturing" a RIF (Realistic Imitation Firearm)
2) Manufacturing RIFs is illegal under the 2006 Violent Crime Reduction Act.
3) The VCRA allows for manufacturing, selling or importing RIFs, providing the end user of the RIF is an airsoft skirmisher and the RIF is to be used as such for skirmishing.
4) The skirmisher must be able to prove their status as a skirmisher in order to be allowed the above exemption from the VCRA
5) UKARA is the method that almost every UK airsoft retailer will now use for you to prove your status as a skirmisher, however it is NOT a "licence" for a RIF, nor is it the ONLY way of proving you are a skirmisher.
I am not saying I am against UKARA or anything like that. UKARA is a fantastic tool that is used by airsoft skirmishers and retailers to cover each others backs and make sure that they are on the right side of the law, specifically the VCRA. It is also supportive to our sport for anyone airsofting in the UK who CAN join UKARA to do so, because it demonstrates that airsofters are responsible people who do everything they can to operate within the law, not try to circumvent it.
However the belief that UKARA is the ONLY legal way to own a RIF as opposed to a two-tone gun is false. If you are GENUINELY an airsoft skirmisher and have SOME means of proving as such then you are still covered by the specific defence allowed under the VCRA, however this does NOT mean that you can buy a two-tone gun, paint it black, hold up your local HSBC at gunpoint and then claim that you are an airsofter so you are allowed the gun because that sort of behaviour is the EXACT reason that the Violent Crime Reduction Act banned RIFs in the first place.
The last consideration to take into account is age. Under 18s may NOT own an IF or RIF under the VCRA, and they are NOT covered by the specific defence of being an airsoft skirmisher. Therefore if you can't join UKARA because of being under 18, then please do NOT mis-construe any of the above post to mean that you can still paint a gun, or even own one with the way the law stands currently.
IF YOU ARE UNDER 18 YOU CANNOT OWN ANY IMITATION FIREARM, WHETHER IT BE TWO-TONE, TRANSPARENT, REALISTIC OR OTHERWISE. (2006 Violent Crime Reduction Act, Provision 40)
[quote author=tarmageddon board=lounge thread=3052 post=26928 time=1310909462IF YOU ARE UNDER 18 YOUR GUN MUST BE A TWO-TONE GUN UNDER UK LAW.[/quote]
under 18 you are not allowed to own a IF or RIF, only borrow one, the under 18 two tone myth is that most parents (who aren't UKARA registered) buy a two tone for their child to "borrow" when they skirmish. the VCR is a mine field, the best advice is "DON'T PAINT UNLESS YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC DEFENCE (UKARA or film crew etc)" cause bring the sport into disrepute ruins it for the rest of us.
under 18 you are not allowed to own a IF or RIF, only borrow one, the under 18 two tone myth is that most parents (who aren't UKARA registered) buy a two tone for their child to "borrow" when they skirmish. the VCR is a mine field, the best advice is "DON'T PAINT UNLESS YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC DEFENCE (UKARA or film crew etc)" cause bring the sport into disrepute ruins it for the rest of us.
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127 Posts
Yes, this is true and I apologise for being misleading. The rule under the VCRA phohibiting under 18s INCLUDES two tone Imitation Firearms, so in fact as an under 18 you are not allowed to actually OWN ANY airsoft weapon. Also the fact that an under 18 is legally allowed to "borrow" an airsoft weapon does not appear to be specific as to whether it is an IF or a RIF, so I will strike the comment you highlighted from my post above.deviant said:
I would wholly agree with the above statement, although I would still condend that simply BEING an airsoft skirmisher, and able to PROVE as such IS a specific defence as allowed for by the Home Secretary regardless of whether the skirmisher chooses UKARA as their preferred method of proof.deviant said:
Again, I am not trying to discredit UKARA, it is an industry recognised, legally accepted and police endorsed method of proving that you are a law abiding airsoft skirmisher. It is also most likely going to end up being a legally recognised governing body of airsoft in the UK, at which point I would expect that UKARA would become mandatory for any airsoft skirmishers owning RIFs, however the original statement in this thread was:
And I just wanted to clarify that this is actually a common mis-conception by airsofters of the way the law currently stands.jamface54 said:
I guess the question we should have asked from the start is "Jamface, WHY are you not a UKARA member?"
If you are under 18 and own a two-tone gun you are breaking the law whether you paint it or not (and more to the point so is the person who bought it for you.)
If you have not fulfilled the UKARA required 3 skirmishes in more than 2 months then you are not an "airsoft skirmisher" as defined by the Home Secretary, and you WOULD be breaking the law by painting the gun.
And if you HAVE fulfilled all the UKARA joining requirements but just haven't bothered joining then.... uhh... JOIN!!
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127 Posts
Well that interpretation is actually completely incorrect. There is a specific reference on the UKARA website to people making that exact mistake.
With that said you should be able to get around that quite easily. Ask UKARA for your own application form and then get the site to simply stamp and sign the back of it for each occasion you attend. Once you have got your three stamps in MORE than two months it doesn't matter in the slightest what they think because you can just send the UKARA form off your own back.
In the meantime print the section off the UKARA website that specifically points to this mistake and give it to the site management. If they are giving proof of site membership to people who have done their three skirmishes WITHIN 2 months they are seriously in contravention to the VCRA and could lose their airsoft site status and even be prosecuted.
(By giving people site membership contrary to the law, they are effectively facilitating people obtaining Realistic Imitation Firearms under false pretences as their "version" of the criteria for full site membership is not considered full membership under the law)
Also, as a point of interest if you are caught with a kermit gun whether you are UKARA or not as long as you are over 18 it is totally legal as it then falls under the category of a toy. In theory (although I strongly discourage it!!) you and your mates could wander round Asda with your "toys" and be totally within the law (for the good of the sport in the UK PLEASE don't try this!!!) but the general point I am making is if you are over 18 and not shooting cats or pensioners or whatever, I wouldn't worry at all about being pulled over with a boot (trunk) full of kermit.
T
With that said you should be able to get around that quite easily. Ask UKARA for your own application form and then get the site to simply stamp and sign the back of it for each occasion you attend. Once you have got your three stamps in MORE than two months it doesn't matter in the slightest what they think because you can just send the UKARA form off your own back.
In the meantime print the section off the UKARA website that specifically points to this mistake and give it to the site management. If they are giving proof of site membership to people who have done their three skirmishes WITHIN 2 months they are seriously in contravention to the VCRA and could lose their airsoft site status and even be prosecuted.
(By giving people site membership contrary to the law, they are effectively facilitating people obtaining Realistic Imitation Firearms under false pretences as their "version" of the criteria for full site membership is not considered full membership under the law)
Also, as a point of interest if you are caught with a kermit gun whether you are UKARA or not as long as you are over 18 it is totally legal as it then falls under the category of a toy. In theory (although I strongly discourage it!!) you and your mates could wander round Asda with your "toys" and be totally within the law (for the good of the sport in the UK PLEASE don't try this!!!) but the general point I am making is if you are over 18 and not shooting cats or pensioners or whatever, I wouldn't worry at all about being pulled over with a boot (trunk) full of kermit.
T
lol I just have paraniod feelings regarding the boys in blue! if they asked what was in the bag I would hand the ba to them as say "toy guns but, I will let you open them so there isn't a missunderstanding". (I once made an offical visit to the Natural history museum, alittle after 7/7 compleate with my disection kit, the security on the door asked the question "is there anything sharp in your bag sir?" while it was all sorted in 20mins, the first 10mins of explaining I had a legitimate reason were a little uncomfy!)Tarmageddon said:
On the plus side this week I use my Ghillie and rifle wrap for the first time, the site owner came up to me as we were leaving the safe zone and said "Mate you look the mutts nuts... apart from the fucking green gun!"
still the other side couldnt see me in the bushes and sprayed every bush they saw!
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