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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. zero trigger and orange piston
2. laylax cylinder head
3. laylax spring guide
4. laylax 190 spring

All I can say is holy cow. First off it is performing amazingly well aside from a bolt pull that would test Arnold. Secondly the installation took about 45 minutes and the modding of the trigger guard is child's play just need a pocket knife and a pair of needle-nose pliers. Thirdly anyone attempting this should install their zero trigger last. The piston sear eats up the cylinder if you try and put it in after the trigger, but laylax designed the trigger assembly to wear you only have to remove one small cap screw and it features a hinge action. Overall amazing day! I can't tell you how much range I'm getting because I don't have lots of area, but its GOT to be up there.
Edit: This is on my Bar-10
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've got the edgi 6.00 and a KA hard bucking. I'm pretty inconsistent right now and trying to figure out why. I shimmed the hop up arm and that helped but still not up to par.

Edit: the list is just what I splurged on yesterday.
 

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That may well be your problem right there :( 6.00mm is way to tight and dump the KA rubber. Like alot of people it appears you, sadly, have fallen into the ' tighter is better' trap and waisted your money doing so :( Through alot of practical experience and testing we over here have found that the best barrel/ rubber combination for a VSR/BAR is a 430mm x 6.03 barrel combined with either a nineball or firefly rubber. This combo gives the best combination of consistency and range. I could go into the physics of it but I just don't want to bore you :-/.
 

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vindicareassassin said:
That may well be your problem right there :( 6.00mm is way to tight and dump the KA rubber. Like alot of people it appears you, sadly, have fallen into the ' tighter is better' trap and waisted your money doing so :( Through alot of practical experience and testing we over here have found that the best barrel/ rubber combination for a VSR/BAR is a 430mm x 6.03 barrel combined with either a nineball or firefly rubber. This combo gives the best combination of consistency and range. I could go into the physics of it but I just don't want to bore you :-/.
Which is better the nineball or the firefly rubber though ;)
 

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I use a nineball with a personal modification because I've heard good and bad reports about the firefly, but that could of been them badly fitting it ::) Nineball rubbers generaly have to use more hop to get the same level flight as a firefly, hense my little mod ;) but I find the nineball is also very consistant which is a good thing :) and your also more likely to find one in the shops as fireflies have now reached mythical god like status and sell out within hours of a shop getting them in ( atleast thats what happens over here :( )
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well explain these physics to me. TCF found that Edgi 6.01 barrels give him the best consistency. I honestly got the 6.00 because they were out of 6.01.

Edit:
I am thinking that I am having a problem with spin because I am getting curvature all over the place never in the same direction so I think I am going to be getting the nine ball. We'll see.
 

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Ok, get your self comfy, and I'll try to explain as best I can, as short as I can ;)

The basis of any accurate airsoft gun is a combination of consistent output power, and hop consistency. All the barrel needs to be is highly polished, straight and tight enough to hold the air propellant to give the BB its motive power. I'm going to assume you know and understand, basically at least, how a hop up works. When the BB is fired through the hop it begins its path down the barrel, the first couple of inches of which it vibrates violently in the barrel until the hop effect stabilizes it, when it has become stable the BB from that point on runs along the top of the barrel, but to help maintain that stability the BB needs an even cushion of air traveling around the remaining bit that isn't running on the barrel. Now imagine, if you will a 5.95(average) BB traveling down a 6.08, a 6.04 and now your 6.00 barrel in section with the BB touching the top and a thin crescent of air around it, on the 6.08 it would be well cushioned but we would expect a fair amount of leakage, and therefore waisted power, on the 6.04 the cushion would still be there maintaining stability, but a little bit more air is remaining behind the BB to help push it along, this is all good, now we have your 6.00 barrel and a roughly 5.95 BB, so as you can see not alot of cushioning going on, all it would take is a slight defect in the BB to cause it to drop out of its cushion, not a problem in the other barrels as there is some slack to help get the BB back on course, on the 6.00 though if the BB wavers a bit the next thing it hits into is the barrel side/ bottom, because there is next to no cushion, causing it to start rattling in the barrel at a point where it should actually be at its most stable. Most people are aware of the TK Twist barrels for AEGs, these take the air cushion a step further and put the cushion all round the BB this then provides the BB with the best possible flight path down the centre of the barrel meaning that the hop effect isn't scrubbed off by contact with the barrel roof, therefore improving both range and accuracy, the only down side is they are only designed for 1 Joule rifles. There is a theory in Japan at the moment that an 6.08 is infact the most accurate and you should only use less if you are struggling to get the required FPS. And just so you know I half agree, as I am currently using 1 in my SPR and it is as straight as my VSR and EBR which has a Systema 6.04 and Madbull black python 6.03 in it respectively, out to 50 metres, after that distance your BB is then in the lap of the gods, with all the variables that entails, and all the uber gear in the world is not going to change.

So is there a best size to get I here you cry, well no, is the honest answer the best average would be a 6.03/6.04, a 6.08 will get your BB down range but with less power behind it, and a 6.00 will improve your FPS and your short range groupings.

Just a quick word on ammo. The heavier your ammo the faster it will stabilize post hop and, as every player worth his salt will know, on through its flight path.

I think I've covered everything, but if your unclear about or need more info on it, just ask and I'll see if I can explain.

VA

EDIT - Just something I remembered reading and worth a look ;)

http://infectedairsoft.wordpress.com/tech-info/how-to-choose-a-new-inner-barrel/

As he mentions, don't forget that these people that offer all this uber gear are firstly in it to make money and secondly to satisfy customer needs. Just because they write a load of BS saying it will do wonders for your accuracy/constancy doesn't mean its true, and only with the proper knowledge can you then make an informed choice. It sadly looks like you have been stung my friend, put it down to experience and move on ;)

2nd EDIT something else to read from guys that know their shizzle ;)

http://forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=891.0
 

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That was an excellent explanation. I was curious about the TK twist barrel and how they worked with the hop-up unit. I'm am enlightened. I'm sure if you organized this post and added a few diagrams this would be stickied as well as make the forum very popular.
 

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Thank you, *takes a bow*, I'd of done diagrams but sadly I'm only a nut and bolt whiz not an electronic tech whiz, so don't know how, posting pictures from a host is about as clever as I get when it comes to these computer things :-[ If someone who understood what I've written, and wants help an old man (when I was a boy the PC hadn't been invented, and a computer was the size of an average room in a house ;)) out by doing them for him, they could PM them to me and I'd modify my post accordingly and give praise where praise is due ;)
 

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Vindicare: Those links were really enlightening! I'm off to buy some gun polish and testing it on my KM(480mm) and stock TM VSR(303) barrels.

As far as the diagrams go, if you want to make a graph there are online graph makers that do most of the work for you(you need the info).

We used this one in math last year: http://nces.ed.gov/nceskids/createAgraph/default.aspx

If your diagrams end in a .jpg code you could just host it like an image.

sticks
 

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Just a quick recap before you all go charging off to fit different barrels ;) Don't forget to polish the life out of it first, any wax based car polish is good personaly I use Auto Glym blobbed on the end of a swab fitted to a bore cleaner, which is then spun in an battery powered drill. Do this 5/6 times renewing the swab every time. You'll be suprised how much crap comes out on the first couple ;)

Sticks- thanks for the link, I'll have to try it tommorow, as its our club AGM tonight, so I'm off to blow the froth of a few with the lads ;)
 

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Yeah i hand polished it allot, I used a car polish called Nu finish or Nu shine or something. I got great results. I haven't tested it with my KM TBB but with a CA stock 509mm barrel, I reduced my grouping size by a little over half. I'll post pics when I'm done with the KM barrel.

Saw the world news, been getting some snow over there yes? Lol have fun!

sticks
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well I took everything apart and cleaned everything up reinstalled the hop up being careful to take my time and everything, and now it seems like everything is good so far. I am going to get some heavier bb's and really put it to the test.
 

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sticks13 said:
Saw the world news, been getting some snow over there yes? Lol have fun!

sticks
Fortunatly I live in the south west, so we didn't get it to bad, about an inch at most ;) The North and East have coped it worst and the boffins are saying its the worst snow we've had here for 18 years, call me cynical but I'm sure they said that last year, and probably the year before that to :-/ ;)

EDIT Sticks- sadly the graphics generator didn't do what I needed it to do ie. draw circles within circles to represent bore and the bb traveling on the top of the bore :'( I did a search and the only free stuff would write my name reeeeal fancy but nothing of any constructive use ;)
 
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