[lullabY]

Hello!

(TL;DR below)

I've been lurking in this forum for a long time now and finally decided to register, since I could really use some advice.
Currently I have a Well MB03 with some modifications like a new 45-degree trigger, AA hop-up chamber, a stronger spring with a spring guide and piston. The sniper shot at about 535fps (163ms) the last time I chronoed it. After the last game I played it started slam firing and I took it apart. Now I've decided that I want to build a rifle with more durable and reliable parts, but I need a new base gun, since I've read that the cylinder diameter of the Well MB03 is different from TM VSR-10. Therefore, I need some help.

I have done a lot of reading and decided to go for the JG BAR-10 (with the suppressor), since it's a really good clone of the TM VSR-10, but a lot cheaper. I'm going to use the AA hop-up chamber from my current gun, since it's truly a great part, which improved my accuracy a lot.

I live in Europe and the max a BASR can shoot in my country with 0.2g BBs is about 607fps (185ms) and I'd like to get as close to that as possible WHILE still being accurate and without any of the parts breaking. Ideally I'd like to shoot at about 590fps (180ms) so I could reach as far as possible while being comfortably under the limit.

So far I've used 0.4g BBs with my gun, but I'm probably going to get 0.45g BBs for this new gun, since it could improve the accuracy.

My budget is about 500€ including the gun (so about 350€). Going a little over isn't an issue, I just don't want to get too crazy with this. The main goal is having a sniper rifle which I can count on and enjoy playing with.

The parts I'm thinking of getting:

• ACTION ARMY VSR-10 cylinder - 80€
• ACTION ARMY VSR-10 spring guide - 23€
• ACTION ARMY VSR-10 M170 spring - 12€
• AUTOBOT Hop Bucking 70° for VSR - 10€
• ACTION ARMY VSR-10 6.03 precision barrel 430mm - 30€ OR MAPLE LEAF CRAZY JET 428mm 6.01 inner barrel - 60€
• ACTION ARMY zero trigger (+piston) - 160€ OR SPRINGER S-trigger v.9 - 130€ + 6.5€ shipping OR AIRSOFTPRO zero trigger set gen. 4 (+piston, spring and spring guide) - 120€

NB! Prices are not 100% accurate!

I chose the AA cylinder because of the OK price and the easy bolt pull (don't want to be getting a workout by just cocking the gun).
AA spring guide because I really didn't know what to look for in a spring guide and it seemed OK.
Airsoftpro zero trigger comes with a spring, a spring guide and a piston. AA zero trigger includes a piston. I've tried to find out as much as I can about the triggers mentioned, but I still can't decide. The trigger has to be really durable and smooth+easy to pull. The s-trigger has made safety easier to use so that's a big plus, but the others have other parts included in the kit, so I could save some money.
The mentioned inner barrels also have a price difference of about 30€, but I've read some GREAT things about the Crazy Jet barrel.

My main questions are if the parts are compatible and which do you guys recommend. Maybe there's something even better available that I haven't noticed.

I want a longer barrel because of accuracy and according to 1tonne's really helpful guide I saw that I can still get a quiet rifle despite using a little bit longer inner barrel. I also read that the soft bucking is better for accuracy which is ultimately something a sniper rifle has to excel in.

I also plan to do some DIY mods like the ejection port cover mod and also using dental floss and tape to get better air seal between bucking and inner barrel. I also plan to fill the stock with something at some point (probably moldable clay).

TL;DR
Getting a new rifle - JG BAR-10 and looking to upgrade. Using 0.45g BBs and want to get it to shoot at about 590fps (180ms). Key words - durability, consistency, accuracy. Which parts should I get? The part list I put together is above (it's missing a hop-up chamber because I already have an AA one and I'm going to use that). ~500€ including the gun (~150€).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I could get close to 590fps (180ms) with a M170 if the air seal is good.

I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Socal_sniper]

With the money you can spend on upgrades definitely get the Crazy Jet barrel. I have it and it was awesome. Get the Maple Leaf Bucking, I use that same 70 degree one and it works great. Also don't forget to buy the concave nub for it: https://www.airsoftatlanta.com/products/maple-leaf-aeg-hop-up-tensioner-omega

M170 spring should work fine but might not get it shooting 600 fps with .2's, just fyi. My gun is shooting a little over 550 fps with an M170 spring in it. M190 would probably be way too much.

Idk if you really need the cylinder, personally i just bought some silicone grease and applied it to the cylinder/piston/trigger sear and that helped a lot with the bolt pull. People also sometimes run into issues with the AA cylinder it seems. Just food for thought.

All those triggers seem fine but I would recommend the Springer trigger and Airsoft Pro trigger over the AA trigger. I have the AA trigger and have always had issues with the bolt pull. I know how to cock it just right but other people that have shot my gun find it hard to use. Also plenty of other people have run into compatibility problems with it here on this forum.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you want a somewhat shorter barrel for heavier BB's and a longer barrel for lighter ones?

P.S. Appreciate you looking at plenty of posts beforehand. I think it's important to do the research yourself and look at plenty of posts instead of just asking what to buy right off the bat.

 

[lullabY]

Thanks for the response!

I haven't completely understood why I need the concave nub for. Is it just something that you have to have when you get the mentioned bucking?

Yeah, I was kind of afraid the M170 wouldn't get me to the desired fps... I've thought about other springs, but some have a larger diameter so that would probably cause issues. I read from a thread (http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/3.../12579-choosing-right-spring-making-work.html), that SP170 spring would be a good choice for the fps I ultimately want. What I can't read from that thread is how long it would take for it to be worn in. Also, is this the correct SP170 spring (asking because it says "AEG" in the title)?

I'll think about the cylinder. It's something that I can always get later if I feel I want to. Are there any other good cylinders out there?

I've also read that people have had to file something on their AA trigger - good thing you confirmed it for me. The difference between the Airsoftpro and the Springer trigger is the price.
The Airsoftpro trigger already has piston, spring and spring guide included (I've read a lot of bad reviews about their springs, so I would still buy another one) for about 120€. I haven't found many reviews about this trigger, but I understand it doesn't have the best pull. Could really use someone's opinion on this.
The Springer trigger seems tempting because of the reviews, but I'd have to get a piston and a spring guide, so it would total me about 200€. I would also really love to hear someone's opinion about this trigger.

About the barrel - I read 1tonne's "Advanced VSR Sniper Building Guide" and he states:
540fps upwards = 0.40gm-0.45gm
0.43gm bb use a 430mm barrel (12279 mm^3) = 2.92:1
0.45gm bb use a 400mm Barrel (11423 mm^3) = 3.13:1
So you're right, according to this I should get a 400mm barrel if I want to use 0.45g BBs. The closest I've found to 400mm are the ones I listed above, though (remembered that I also found a 410mm one). I think cutting the barrel a bit shorter could turn out to be really sketchy, so I rather wouldn't. Are those 30mm's to important that I shouldn't go for the Crazy Jet and get something as close to 400mm as possible? I think the fps output also plays a role and mine is going to be quite high. Or maybe just go with 0.43g BBs?

 

[Socal_sniper]

I haven't completely understood why I need the concave nub for. Is it just something that you have to have when you get the mentioned bucking?

That concave nub pushes up on the bucking properly giving the BB more surface area to get backspin on. Without it your gun just won't be as effective.

Also, is this the correct SP170 spring (asking because it says "AEG" in the title)?

That's the wrong spring. This is the correct one: https://airsoftpro.cz/en/gun-parts-...na-pro-odstrelovaci-pusky-m170-560-fps-detail Just remember you can only use that spring with the Airsoft Pro Spring guide and piston. Unfortunately the piston and spring guide are designed to accommodate 9mm springs. Other springs won't work. It's the same one included in the airsoft pro package.

I'll think about the cylinder. It's something that I can always get later if I feel I want to. Are there any other good cylinders out there?

You can always buy it later on. I don't mean to say the AA cylinder is bad! I'm just saying I don't think it's necessary.

The closest I've found to 400mm are the ones I listed above, though (remembered that I also found a 410mm one). I think cutting the barrel a bit shorter could turn out to be really sketchy, so I rather wouldn't. Are those 30mm's to important that I shouldn't go for the Crazy Jet and get something as close to 400mm as possible?

This shop sells 410 mm CJ barrels but they are currently out of stock: https://shop.jkarmy.com/maple-leaf-...ynamic-6-04mm-inner-barrel-for-tm-we-gbb.html

Yeah, don't cut your barrel. Also I don't think those 30mm are a big deal at all. It might make your gun slightly less efficient but I don't think you should wait weeks for a 410 mm barrel vs 428 mm one. The difference would be very minor. 43's are fine as well. I use .40's personally since they're $10 cheaper/1000 compared to .43's (depending on the manufacturer).

 

[lullabY]

That's the wrong spring. This is the correct one: https://airsoftpro.cz/en/gun-parts-...na-pro-odstrelovaci-pusky-m170-560-fps-detail Just remember you can only use that spring with the Airsoft Pro Spring guide and piston. Unfortunately the piston and spring guide are designed to accommodate 9mm springs. Other springs won't work. It's the same one included in the airsoft pro package.

Therefore the Airsoftpro trigger would be reasonable (although I can always buy a piston and a spring guide that are suitable if I got the Springer trigger). Currently, the trigger has a big question mark hovering above it as to which to get.

This shop sells 410 mm CJ barrels but they are currently out of stock: https://shop.jkarmy.com/maple-leaf-...ynamic-6-04mm-inner-barrel-for-tm-we-gbb.html

Yeah, don't cut your barrel. Also I don't think those 30mm are a big deal at all. It might make your gun slightly less efficient but I don't think you should wait weeks for a 410 mm barrel vs 428 mm one. The difference would be very minor. 43's are fine as well. I use .40's personally since they're $10 cheaper/1000 compared to .43's (depending on the manufacturer).

I agree, waiting so long would be pretty pointless. But overall, if both sizes are available - 428mm Crazy Jet or some 410mm barrel? I'd love to try out 0.45g BBs but if they won't make much of a difference over 0.43g BBs, then I see no point and would go for 0.43g and 428mm Crazy Jet.
Now I'm thinking of getting the Crazy Jet and 0.43g BBs...

 

[Socal_sniper]

Now I'm thinking of getting the Crazy Jet and 0.43g BBs...

There's really nothing wrong with that. If this is your first sniper as I suspect it is, you don't need maximum performance right off that bat. When we're talking about .02 gram or 18 mm on a barrel we're taking about very small improvements.

As long as your rifle is shooting straight you'll be fine, at first you should focus more on being able to get the rifle to shoot properly for you. Once you know how your rifle works you could start trying new things and seeing if there's an improvement. Obviously getting the right parts is key but at a certain point upgrades can be so marginal they are almost invisible to the average player.

 

[lullabY]

You're right. I can always ask someone for a few 0.45g BBs at a game and try them out to see if they make a difference.

Thank you for your input!

Now I'm still kind of stuck on the trigger. If the Airsoftpro trigger is good then of course I'll get that one because of the 80€ price difference. I'm not going to rush the purchase so maybe someone will comment on the triggers. Kind of decided I won't get the AA trigger.

 

[lullabY]

It has come down to 2 options.

NB! Total price does not include the hop-up chamber, because I already have it.

1)

• AIRSOFTPRO Zero Trigger (+ piston, spring guide) gen.4 - 103,58 €
• MAPLE LEAF DIAMOND Hop Bucking 70° - 8.11€
• MAPLE LEAF Omega HopUp Nub - 6.61€
• MAPLE LEAF Crazy Jet 428mm inner barrel - 56.16€
• ACTION ARMY hop up chamber - 0€
• ACTION ARMY VSR-10 CYLINDER KIT - 94€
• LAYLAX PSS10 SP170 spring - 25€

TOTAL ~ 294€

OR

2)

• Springer v9 Zero Trigger - 137€
• MAPLE LEAF DIAMOND Hop Bucking 70° - 8.11€
• MAPLE LEAF Omega HopUp Nub - 6.61€
• MAPLE LEAF Crazy Jet 428mm inner barrel - 56.16€
• ACTION ARMY hop up chamber - 0€
• MAPLE LEAF cylinder + piston + spring guide - 124.38€
• ACTION ARMY M170 spring - 14€

TOTAL ~ 347€

To be honest, I'm strongly leaning towards the second one, because:

1. the smaller diameter springs are more easily available for me
2. the trigger has a safety option (I have an old trigger with safety so I can take the lever from there)

I'd still love to hear opinions about both the setups.
I also have a question - are both setups compatible? What I mean is are the parts included compatible with the other parts included? I tried to take this into account, but I'm not a 100% sure.

 

[BoesBoes]

To be honest i'd just get the ASP trigger and black steel cilinder for your mb03, the ASP parts are actually made for the mb03. (plus the maple leaf stuff of course)

Also keep in mind that with an m170 and .2g you might not get 600 fps but with .43g you might be already over 600fps equivalent w/.2g due to joule creep.

However if you don't mind spending the moneys i'd say option 2.

 

[lullabY]

The reason I'm getting a new gun is I read that the cylinder diameter is a little bit different, so that could cause problems. Did I get it wrong?

 

[mistermist]

I have a setup very similar to your option nr. 2 it is working very well so far, had some amazing hits from around 70-80 meters with a strong side wind and with good weather i believe I could hit 90-95, maybe even a 100 if lucky. Springer trigger is awesome, he has two options, you dont need a safety anyways, so check if they have any other differences you might want to have. Though after using sp170 for about 500 shots I have noticed some damage on the trigger sears, which actually made the pull a bit harder, but by a very small amount, applying more greased fixed the problem.

I opted for laylax spring guide ans it unscrewed itself after every 50 shots, this bent my spring a bit. In an unscrevable spring guide always apply loctite to keep it together.

Now for the ASP trigger, I had version 1 I think some time ago, it was solidly built, though left much work for improvement on the trigger pull side. I think the gen. 4 has adjustable trigger pull so opt for that defitinitely if you go this route. The springs they give you can just be thrown away.

And definitely get ML CJ barrel, it is very good.

Also you might want to consider checking PDI parts on xfire site, they have sometimes very good deals, and their vacuum piston is something I would like to try out myself.

Another option is edgi directly, his piston seems better than aa or laylax but opt for 90 degree version and get springer trigger together with the remaining parts from the kit.

 

[lullabY]

I have a setup very similar to your option nr. 2 it is working very well so far, had some amazing hits from around 70-80 meters with a strong side wind and with good weather i believe I could hit 90-95, maybe even a 100 if lucky.

That's really good to hear!

Can I ask where did you buy the SP170 from? Is it the wide (13mm outer diameter) spring?
Also, is your cylinder working fine now? I read your thread and you mentioned some friction with the spring guide stopper.

 

[mistermist]

I have a setup very similar to your option nr. 2 it is working very well so far, had some amazing hits from around 70-80 meters with a strong side wind and with good weather i believe I could hit 90-95, maybe even a 100 if lucky.

That's really good to hear!

Can I ask where did you buy the SP170 from? Is it the wide (13mm outer diameter) spring?
Also, is your cylinder working fine now? I read your thread and you mentioned some friction with the spring guide stopper.

I bought my all parts from skirmshop, they had very good service, I can recommend them for sure. Spring is laylax, I am not sure wether it is 13 mm. The friction came from the spring guide unscrewing itself and bending the spring, that is why I suggested to use loctite, and quite a good amount of it to lock the two parts of the guide together.

If I would build this right now, I think I would go for edgi cylinder parts and springer trigger. Edgi or ML CJ barrels would depend entirely on the budget.

 

[BoesBoes]

As far as i know Airsoft pro parts won't cause problems in the mb03.
Also i can second on Skirmshop, great store.

Still if you don't mind spending that cash the jg build will be the nicer rifle, not by a whole lot but it will.

 

[lullabY]

Thank you all for your input!

 

[lullabY]

So, I ordered the parts yesterday.
This is what I finally went with:

• Maple Leaf 428mm Crazy Jet
• Action Army VSR-10 Blue Piston
• Action Army Cylinder Kit
• Action Army VSR M170
• Springer Custom works VSR-10 Budget S-trigger
• Laylax PSS10 Spring Guide with Smooth Bearing
• Maple Leaf Diamond Hop Bucking 70°
• Maple Leaf Omega HopUp Nub
• Action Army Hop-up chamber

I actually wanted a Laylax SP170/SP190(was going to cut it) spring, but it was out of stock and Skirmshop told me that they'll have some in a few weeks, but I really didn't want to wait that long. The M170 will have to do for now.
I chose the budget version of the S-trigger, because I don't think I'll need the adjustable trigger pull. The lack of safety option is not that big of an issue. It was a good way to save 40€ and invest it in something else.
I got the Laylax trigger guide because the price difference between the Action Army and the Laylax ones was 1€.

Thanks again for everything, guys!
I will be posting again when I get my items and assemble the rifle.

/E: I had a discussion about whether or not to get a cylinder right away. The reason I bought an AA cylinder now is simple - I had to pay for shipping anyway and since I can't get it from my country, I decided it would be best to get everything right away.

 

[lullabY]

I ordered from 2 different stores, since I couldn't find all the parts I wanted from one store.
Something quite funny happened with one of my orders.

This is my tracking info:

And I received the following e-mail yesterday:

:doh:

 

[Socal_sniper]

Send them an email? It might be a mistake? It's probably shipping from a different country, shouldn't arrive that fast.

 

[lullabY]

I was just writing a response to their e-mail, when I decided to take a picture of the tracking info and then discovered that it had been updated about 2 hours ago and the package has arrived in my country, so no need to send that e-mail. Their software might just be a bit faulty.

 

[SpecOpz84]

I ordered from 2 different stores, since I couldn't find all the parts I wanted from one store.
Something quite funny happened with one of my orders.

This is my tracking info:

And I received the following e-mail yesterday:

I am waiting on my ML Crazy Jet from Skirmshop too. I got the same email as soon as it said it arrived in my country. No shipping updates since "Released from customs" on Tuesday.