Groupings?
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Sorry to rain on your fire so early on in the proceedings matey, but I've never shot a groupings test, and never will, because it means absolute squat when your face down in the dirt taking on moving targets. What I believe is important is weapon familiarity. I haven't changed the set up of my rifle for nearly 3 years now, and that was only when I changed the hop bucking, and a month ago to lower the power to 350fps, but I know that I can hit a man sized target out to 250 yards using my 500fps set up, that is all that counts. As I've covered in other topics, after 50 yards there are so many other variables at work on the BB that past that point everything else is knowing and understanding how YOUR rifle fires, yes to a degree this can be learnt firing at targets in your back garden from a reasonably supported position, but then place you and said target in an unknown environment, with unpredictable atmospherics, at roughly the same distance and move said target approximately 3/5 feet for every shot you take and you begin to see what I'm getting at 
In short there is no substitute for getting your arse in the grass if you want to learn how to shoot your rifle accurately
Just my 2p, if anyone wants to post their groupings, please carry on
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In short there is no substitute for getting your arse in the grass if you want to learn how to shoot your rifle accurately
Just my 2p, if anyone wants to post their groupings, please carry on
I completely agree with everything you said. I'm just posting this to get an idea of people's success with different rifle builds, in case I want to try a new one.
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Umm...250 YARDS, or feet?
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I also don't do strict groupings, those are estimates to give other people an idea. Honestly, I'm just getting antsy because I've been out of commission for 4 months, and it'll be another month or so until I can start playing again. So...this and target shooting are my substitutes for "getting my arse in the grass".
Umm...250 YARDS, or feet?
I also don't do strict groupings, those are estimates to give other people an idea. Honestly, I'm just getting antsy because I've been out of commission for 4 months, and it'll be another month or so until I can start playing again. So...this and target shooting are my substitutes for "getting my arse in the grass".
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Yards bud, I'm a builder by trade so am aware of the difference
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I've done it twice now at similar ranges and both were confirmed by the self designated spotter with me at the time, the shot was more aimed like a mortar, with the target being only just visible in the scope with the amount of hold over required to get out to such ranges.
The rifles used were my old CA M24, 550fps, fixed hop, TM bucking, 6.08mm x 509mm barrel, plus my usual tinkerings to improve seal and consistency, .43g Digi straights
Place was a site called 'The Rock' which is held in a Hooooooge quarry in the south of england, and the terrain resembles something from A'stan mountains.
The second was with my current VSR, 504fps, latex/durex/laylax internals, nineball hop bucking, custom modded Systema 6.04mm x 445mm barrel, again with my usual tinkerings, .43g Digi straights
Place was at 1 of our club training days, open woodland and fields, target shooting practice sniper challenge. 2 of us started shooting at a lucky, and I feel privileged, 'Volunteer' standing out to 175 yards we would then get 5 shots to hit him move back 10 yards and repeat. Our other team sniper did use, he has now retired from playing, a Sun projects M40A1 firing at I believe 525fps and again .43g Digi straights.
There you go matey, 3 back to back rifle comparisons for you all tested to a 250ish yard range
EDIT for speelung n greymar
I've done it twice now at similar ranges and both were confirmed by the self designated spotter with me at the time, the shot was more aimed like a mortar, with the target being only just visible in the scope with the amount of hold over required to get out to such ranges.
The rifles used were my old CA M24, 550fps, fixed hop, TM bucking, 6.08mm x 509mm barrel, plus my usual tinkerings to improve seal and consistency, .43g Digi straights
Place was a site called 'The Rock' which is held in a Hooooooge quarry in the south of england, and the terrain resembles something from A'stan mountains.
The second was with my current VSR, 504fps, latex/durex/laylax internals, nineball hop bucking, custom modded Systema 6.04mm x 445mm barrel, again with my usual tinkerings, .43g Digi straights
Place was at 1 of our club training days, open woodland and fields, target shooting practice sniper challenge. 2 of us started shooting at a lucky, and I feel privileged, 'Volunteer' standing out to 175 yards we would then get 5 shots to hit him move back 10 yards and repeat. Our other team sniper did use, he has now retired from playing, a Sun projects M40A1 firing at I believe 525fps and again .43g Digi straights.
There you go matey, 3 back to back rifle comparisons for you all tested to a 250ish yard range
EDIT for speelung n greymar
250 yards? That's 750 feet. In situations like this it's good to have photo or video evidence. Did there happen to be zero wind the day you pulled this shot off?
I too go by the range at which one can accurately hit a man-sized target to classify accurate groupings. I've never had the distances measured out because almost all of my longer shots have been in combat. But measured shots from the range I can confirm are 8" groupings at 230ft using Airsoft NW .43's.
I'm using the following:
CA M24 at 535fps (Never got around to testing out my 600+ setup)
-Laylax Teflon cylinder
-Laylax 3-element piston
-Laylax red piston cup/head
-Laylax cylinder head pro
-Laylax 7/9mm bearing spring guide
-Laylax SP150 spring
-Laylax zero trigger
-PDI M24 hopup
-KM TN 509mm 6.04 barrel
I too go by the range at which one can accurately hit a man-sized target to classify accurate groupings. I've never had the distances measured out because almost all of my longer shots have been in combat. But measured shots from the range I can confirm are 8" groupings at 230ft using Airsoft NW .43's.
I'm using the following:
CA M24 at 535fps (Never got around to testing out my 600+ setup)
-Laylax Teflon cylinder
-Laylax 3-element piston
-Laylax red piston cup/head
-Laylax cylinder head pro
-Laylax 7/9mm bearing spring guide
-Laylax SP150 spring
-Laylax zero trigger
-PDI M24 hopup
-KM TN 509mm 6.04 barrel
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It does have to be said the conditions were favorable on both days, on the first occasion the guy with me is also within the building trade so is also oh-fay with not getting his feet and yards mixed up but the conversation did revolve around 'Look at 'im over there, hes spotting for those in the valley, do you reckon you can hit 'im from here?', 'Don't know, I'll give it a go.' 8 or 9 shots later 'Fuck me, you hit 'im!', 'Really?', 'Yep, buggers got his hand in the air and is walking!', We then sat there and discussed how far we both estimated it was, and taking into account that we where surrounded by stone blocks of almost identical size, that were also between us and him, we came up with about 250 yards. I had to ask my spotter to confirm the shot and call where the BB was landing for me to make adjustments, as the target was literally only just in the scope for me, so there was no real way for me to track the shot, and non of our team where any where near in range to of shot him
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I also commend the guy for actually taking the hit, there aint many grunts out there that would of at that distance : but he must of known he was being targeted as I must of got atleast a couple close
The second occasion was measured at 230 yards, the target taking extended strides, equating to approx. 3 feet per stride on the average adult. We both managed to hit him at that range and there was about 20 witnesses, I'm fairly sure there was money changing hands too We had absolutely no wind that day, so it was ideal and the field did dip down slightly by about 3 feet, which could well of aided abit
but the conversation did revolve around 'Look at 'im over there, hes spotting for those in the valley, do you reckon you can hit 'im from here?', 'Don't know, I'll give it a go.' 8 or 9 shots later 'Fuck me, you hit 'im!', 'Really?', 'Yep, buggers got his hand in the air and is walking!', We then sat there and discussed how far we both estimated it was, and taking into account that we where surrounded by stone blocks of almost identical size, that were also between us and him, we came up with about 250 yards. I had to ask my spotter to confirm the shot and call where the BB was landing for me to make adjustments, as the target was literally only just in the scope for me, so there was no real way for me to track the shot, and non of our team where any where near in range to of shot him
but he must of known he was being targeted as I must of got atleast a couple close The second occasion was measured at 230 yards, the target taking extended strides, equating to approx. 3 feet per stride on the average adult. We both managed to hit him at that range and there was about 20 witnesses, I'm fairly sure there was money changing hands too
We had absolutely no wind that day, so it was ideal and the field did dip down slightly by about 3 feet, which could well of aided abit
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Did you want a list that is a general/coverall/can be done to most? or something for a more specific weapon? If I get time in the next couple of days/weeks, I may put together a basic how to and why for those that are in need of doing some tinkering and put it in the tech thread. I may do it with just links to the stuff I've posted throughout the forum so it doesn't end up massive/boring and so I don't have to repeat 90% of what I have already written would that be any good to you?
would that be any good to you?
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Vindicare.. I'm not going to say I flat out don't believe it was possible, but I'm with Embed on this. I'd really need to see a video or photo proof, because legitimately I've sat outside on zero wind days or wind coming in at full value to my six, and I still can't fathom touching anything over 125 yards, and the only time I've ever hit something past the 100 mark was when I was pop shooting at an electrical box from my window with Oakey.
Anyways, groupings really can't be consistant with airsoft, unlike with real weaponry, where my M4 was sighted in (BZO'd) at 200 yards in less than 10 shots. The problem is that the bb's are too light in the grand scheme of things, and wind can come into play far too often. If you could however get in one of those big dome buildings where there is zero wind and no elements (One of those football field ones) you could probably get some clean shots off and see where you're at.
Anyways, groupings really can't be consistant with airsoft, unlike with real weaponry, where my M4 was sighted in (BZO'd) at 200 yards in less than 10 shots. The problem is that the bb's are too light in the grand scheme of things, and wind can come into play far too often. If you could however get in one of those big dome buildings where there is zero wind and no elements (One of those football field ones) you could probably get some clean shots off and see where you're at.
Hop-up set-up or settings? The adjusted the settings so it would fly straight for each weight. A different (or better) set up only serves to extend the range that the BB remains stable and straight. At the ranges the tested, I bet you would see a similar result regardless of the hop unit used.
After all, that's the point of an experiment using controls. It doesn't necessarily judge best performance with whatever parameters, but it does serve to illustrate the variations that are present in each weight of BB.
After all, that's the point of an experiment using controls. It doesn't necessarily judge best performance with whatever parameters, but it does serve to illustrate the variations that are present in each weight of BB.
I see what you're saying. For one, heavy weight bb's require a different build material, and then you get back into the bubble issue of .12's through .25's (sometimes), for instance to create .36's. Also, manufacturing is just plain better on BB's like SGM's and KSC's (above, say, madbull).
Still, gotta make do with what you have. =)
Still, gotta make do with what you have. =)
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