[Swollen.D]

Hey hey there good people!

~ Here's little info before I get into build details:
I've been reading through forums, guides and anywhere that I could get as much info possible on VSR-10 builds, but I've got plenty more questions, becouse all those builds are limited by the joule rules of their respected country of origin or their local field. I am not bound by such limitations. I've seen crazy builds from Philippines, those guys easily reach over 750fps measured with .20bb, but I don't understand a single word they say, All I figured is that they use long 540mm+ inner-barrels and some hella strong springs, also it doesn't help that they don't list parts.
You might be asking, why would I need such a build ? Well, we aren't your average 14 year old go brrr with HPA in some CQB warehouse with music blasting. We are based in Asia. At my field we do realistic engaments / mil-trainings/ operations in forest and we have different weapons for different occasions. Average joe on my field with an AEG hits targets consisantly at around 80+ meters, so my Vsr-10 build should be relaiably hitting hitting targets over 200 meters. That's what we need for future event.

~ The build:
Budget: Don't have a fixed one, will pay for decent parts but won't overpay for parts that offer diminishing results over price creep.
Base: I've read that JG Bar-10 is the best base weapon, it being 100% TM Vsr-10 clone and having 100% aftermarket part compatibility. Also I've looked into CM701 but I'm not sure if it's as compatible as JG. Might get used or boneyard ones since 90% of internals will be replaced anyways.
Cylinder set: Whichever is best for strong springs like Rapax 4j+, leme know.
Trigger unit: Think of S-trigger v9.2 by Springer custom or Maple leaf's Gen 3 Vsr, haven't looked into other ones,whichever is better.
Spring: Rapax Hulk 4j+ and or Rapax RMS 4j+, they are both advertised as 4j and both for VSR10 but I've read somewhere that it ain't 100% fact.
Piston + Spring guide: I am at loss here, there's conflicting information, some say heavier is better but some say lightergets more fps ? No clue, I'll get which ever you kind folks recommend, I want to squeeze every fps available from it. As for spring guide 9mm ofc.
HopUp Chamber: Good old Red Action Army with masada's cnc arm.
Nub: built in masada's cnc arm.
Bucking: Whichever is best suitible for 0.49bbs, Whatever's latest and greatest?
Inner-barrel: Correct me if I'm wrong, but longer the more fps ? So 540mm but which brand ? I've heared EdGi is the Gucci equivalent in airsoft, but it costs twice what other brands cost,110$ for a barrel ? Don't think it offers twice the performance now would it ? Also figured that I need bridgeless one.

Am I missing any other parts ? let me know. Thanks for your time! Hope I can get some answers and recommendations.

 

[RonSwanson]

Average joe on my field with an AEG hits targets consisantly at around 80+ meters, so my Vsr-10 build should be relaiably hitting hitting targets over 200 meters. That's what we need for future event.[/I]

Stopped reading here, If you had been researching you would know a 200m shot with a spherical Airsoft BB isn't going to happen and in a country with no power limits than an AEG is the meta in every way.

 

[Swollen.D]

Stopped reading here, If you had been researching you would know a 200m shot with a spherical Airsoft BB isn't going to happen and in a country with no power limits than an AEG is the meta in every way.

AEG with no limits might sound meta, but it isn't once you factor in build cost and chance of failure(with all the strein on shell and gears from m190+ springs), haven't heard AEGs being able to effectivly use 0.48bbs+, in range and in effective range snipers remain on top from my experience.

Also, 200m shot isn't out of realm of possibility here's one such Example

 

[Sodium]

Barrel length isn't going to help you as a longer barrel only increases energy output for lighter bbs. .48 stop accelerating past 370mm. The only way to really achieve the speed and range (and you still will probably max out at like 150m if your extremely lucky) like you're suggesting is a super tight barrel (like 6.00 or less), a strong ass spring (RAPAX RMS 4J with fps spacers or a custom super steong edgi one, which is probably the way to go), a heavier piston (WASP or Stalker piston should be fine,
), and .69 ZrO2 ball bearings (this is by far the most important part). They're gonna run you like $.25 a shot, and you have to buy them from special manufacturers on ali-express.

I think I read somewhere that the VSR-X, which is designed for heavy weigh rounds, has a 300mm barrel because heavies stop accelerating past that. Regarding the piston, the ideal piston weight to accelerate a .48g bb is around 65g. I believe .69 should be around 100-150g. I know the VSR-X uses a 150g piston. Any weight adjustable should be good for you as these weights fall in their adjustable range I believe.

With that setup and a RAPAX spring, you should get about 4.5 J with .69g bearings, aka 700 fps with .2s. If you want more, you're gonna have to go edgi, which is a little worse as I don't think his springs are 13mm (so you'll have a tougher/less smooth bolt pull)

 

[SiliconeSword]

Number one, you will not reach 200m, best you will do is like 140-150m, and that's if you use .69g ceramic BBs.

Gun - Novritsch SSG10
Cylinder - stock SSG10
Trigger - stock SSG10
Spring - Rapax 4J
Piston+guide - stock SSG10, maybe with piston weights
Hop chamber - AA red is what I'd use, good choice
Nub - Masada nub is good, but take a look at the SS-nub tutorial in my signature
Bucking - I'd go with either a Maple Leaf 2021 80* or 85* Autobot, or an R-hop and a flat bucking
Barrel - ESCW 5.98, EdGi, or lapped PDI, DaVinci, or Lambda 6.01
DIY stuff - one piece receiver, tape barrel spacers, cylinder sleeve, bolt handle lockup stabilizing

 

[Swollen.D]

Number one, you will not reach 200m, best you will do is like 140-150m, and that's if you use .69g ceramic BBs.

Gun - Novritsch SSG10
Cylinder - stock SSG10
Trigger - stock SSG10
Spring - Rapax 4J
Piston+guide - stock SSG10, maybe with piston weights
Hop chamber - AA red is what I'd use, good choice
Nub - Masada nub is good, but take a look at the SS-nub tutorial in my signature
Bucking - I'd go with either a Maple Leaf 2021 80* or 85* Autobot, or an R-hop and a flat bucking
Barrel - ESCW 5.98, EdGi, or lapped PDI, DaVinci, or Lambda 6.01
DIY stuff - one piece receiver, tape barrel spacers, cylinder sleeve, bolt handle lockup stabilizing

Much thanks for info! I will be using 0.49bbs due to cost, I'll take whatever range it will achieve.
Already have both Red AA and Masada's arm. As for barrel ESCW 5.98 is easliy sourceable for me.
Bucking I'll get both and see whichever works the best.

Is ssg10 the way to go ? If I managed (I might do actually) to source JG or Cyma for like 50$ Couldn't I get better Cylinder, Piston and trigger unit in 250$ that otherwise would have been invested in SSG10 ? And if so which ones would you recommend ?

 

[Sodium]

Much thanks for info! I will be using 0.49bbs due to cost, I'll take whatever range it will achieve.
Already have both Red AA and Masada's arm. As for barrel ESCW 5.98 is easliy sourceable for me.
Bucking I'll get both and see whichever works the best.

Is ssg10 the way to go ? If I managed (I might do actually) to source JG or Cyma for like 50$ Couldn't I get better Cylinder, Piston and trigger unit in 250$ that otherwise would have been invested in SSG10 ? And if so which ones would you recommend ?

With .48, you're maxing out at 100mm. Also yeah if you can get a cyma or JG for $50, that's a no brainer.

 

[Swollen.D]

With .48, you're maxing out at 100mm. Also yeah if you can get a cyma or JG for $50, that's a no brainer.

I might and I was wondering which Cylinder Piston and trigger unit should I opt for ?

 

[Doctor Jest]

You might want to consider a TDC - either Tridos or the TTI chamber.

For the trigger and piston, I've gone for the Springer Custom Works but I can't address their performance at that sort of power level, we're limited to 2.3j over here. With that noted, they are at least as good as the Laylax Zero Trigger units I've used in the past...sorry I can't be more helpful.

That video posted above...I doubt it's 200m. In fact, I'm 99% sure it isn't! The BB travel time is too fast, and the trajectory is too flat for even a heavily upgraded rifle - not to mention the fact that you hit such diminishing returns when projecting a spherical projectile that the first-round accuracy is highly suspect too, or at least for a claimed 200m. I've seen shots out to 140m but that required a specialized periscope to be added to the scope in order to produce something like another 20 or 30 MOA of adjustment, and a tripod for stability.....OR.....see below.

I'm not saying that 200m isn't achievable but I would happily assert that the gun needed to reach that level of performance and accuracy hasn't been built yet - and I have seen footage of a 900fps VSR. Actually, on that subject.....this is from some while back and I don't remember the full details but almost every part had been custom-made to handle the internal strain, and shooting at around 140m his BBs didn't have the speed and trajectory of that video above. On the subject of ammunition, you'd need to use either .69 ceramic or .9 steel BBs to keep the velocity sensible or the atmospheric drag would be catastrophic, and the accuracy would be abysmal. Even with super-heavyweight ammo, you're facing the task of building a rifle to handle ridiculously powerful springs (which would make cocking an awful task) and perform accurately way past anything I've seen over 20 years in the hobby.

In short, I don't feel 200m is realistic. Perhaps aim for 120m initially and see exactly which parts provide the longevity you require with the .49BBs you plan on using.

 

[Swollen.D]

You might want to consider a TDC - either Tridos or the TTI chamber.

For the trigger and piston, I've gone for the Springer Custom Works but I can't address their performance at that sort of power level, we're limited to 2.3j over here. With that noted, they are at least as good as the Laylax Zero Trigger units I've used in the past...sorry I can't be more helpful.

That video posted above...I doubt it's 200m. In fact, I'm 99% sure it isn't! The BB travel time is too fast, and the trajectory is too flat for even a heavily upgraded rifle - not to mention the fact that you hit such diminishing returns when projecting a spherical projectile that the first-round accuracy is highly suspect too, or at least for a claimed 200m. I've seen shots out to 140m but that required a specialized periscope to be added to the scope in order to produce something like another 20 or 30 MOA of adjustment, and a tripod for stability.....OR.....see below.

I'm not saying that 200m isn't achievable but I would happily assert that the gun needed to reach that level of performance and accuracy hasn't been built yet - and I have seen footage of a 900fps VSR. Actually, on that subject.....this is from some while back and I don't remember the full details but almost every part had been custom-made to handle the internal strain, and shooting at around 140m his BBs didn't have the speed and trajectory of that video above. On the subject of ammunition, you'd need to use either .69 ceramic or .9 steel BBs to keep the velocity sensible or the atmospheric drag would be catastrophic, and the accuracy would be abysmal. Even with super-heavyweight ammo, you're facing the task of building a rifle to handle ridiculously powerful springs (which would make cocking an awful task) and perform accurately way past anything I've seen over 20 years in the hobby.

In short, I don't feel 200m is realistic. Perhaps aim for 120m initially and see exactly which parts provide the longevity you require with the .49BBs you plan on using.

Thanks for info, what about upcoming Full Thrust kit for SSG10? 0.62g 6.44bbs sound interesting 🤔 but spherical shape being a problem I wouldn't expect more range out of it ? Also all the parts in kit being proprietary makes it less appealing.

 

[SiliconeSword]

You'd be cutting it pretty close to get a trigger, cylinder, cylinder head, piston, and spring guide of equivalent quality for $250. SSG10 is easy, and just as good, with the trigger being the same Bulltrigger that is sold for VSRs and considered good.

The receiver is aluminum, lighter and stronger than the standard monkey metal, and the outer barrel is a little nicer than average and you're able to make a 430mm one piece receiver out of it which you can only do with bull barrel style outer barrel like the G-spec, or some of the stuff Laylax, PDI, Action Army, and Maple Leaf make.

If you wanna get a Bore Up cylinder set from Airsoftgunseurope for $60 I'd recommend that, and if you do that then you may be better off building an SSG10 without the Nov cylinder set, hop chamber, or inner barrel.
I'd recommend doing that anyways if you're gonna replace those parts as it could save you money, but if you're not gonna use his cylinder set then that kinda pushes it over the edge.

As for the Full Thrust system, it is in fact good, but I'm not sure how well worth it all the stuff is. Being stuck with proprietary mags and maybe buckings is annoying to say the least, but if you're stuck with proprietary ammo, then that's bad. This is bad if the ammo is out of stock for a while and you run out, but even worse if shipping is very expensive or the company goes out of business. This happens to people in the firearms world a great deal, as there is a large list of cartridges that were a fad that then lost popularity, and eventually disappear, or go way up in price. Then you're stuck with a gun and it's accessories which would require you to convert it to another caliber if you're lucky, and if not you're out a bunch of money and have a gun and stuff you probably couldn't sell.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Thanks for info, what about upcoming Full Thrust kit for SSG10? 0.62g 6.44bbs sound interesting 🤔 but spherical shape being a problem I wouldn't expect more range out of it ? Also all the parts in kit being proprietary makes it less appealing.

It's a bit of a gimmick, my dude.

You don't necessarily get more accuracy with a heavier, larger BB....accuracy is more a factor of the BB quality, the consistency of the hop-up and power, and the concentricity/stability of the inner barrel. You do get less air resistance as the velocity is lower (depends on the power source, of course, you can only cheat drag for so long) but if both the .46g and .58g BB are fired at the same power, with the same hop settings that diagram is misleading - you would theoretically see more effective range, but not dramatically so.

Or to put it another way, not enough difference to make a difference.

 

[RonSwanson]

Why not get the ICS tomahawk, bigger volume so easier to get higher power as a longer barrel can be used, 3 way TDC to fine adjust BB flight path. Or a tac41/SRS.

Any part installed a few degrees of dead perfect will show exponentially more the further the range and if you aren't 100% sure of how to build errors will happen, they won't show at 40-50m range but will when you start to increase.

Not being mean but it sounds like your new to sniping/building yet you come with the objective to reach distances that haven't been recorded even by the best tinkerers and minds which would likely require perfection if not custom made parts at stages.

Maybe aim for 100m and see how that goes.

You can't just jack up power and get more range to match, because you need exponentially more power for every 10m range increase in range. A 3j AEG would likely match a 4j sniper for all purposes for any real shots as bb's just aren't designed for accurate, long range flight.

 

[Doctor Jest]

You'd be cutting it pretty close to get a trigger, cylinder, cylinder head, piston, and spring guide of equivalent quality for $250. SSG10 is easy, and just as good, with the trigger being the same Bulltrigger that is sold for VSRs and considered good.

The receiver is aluminum, lighter and stronger than the standard monkey metal, and the outer barrel is a little nicer than average and you're able to make a 430mm one piece receiver out of it which you can only do with bull barrel style outer barrel like the G-spec, or some of the stuff Laylax, PDI, Action Army, and Maple Leaf make.

If you wanna get a Bore Up cylinder set from Airsoftgunseurope for $60 I'd recommend that, and if you do that then you may be better off building an SSG10 without the Nov cylinder set, hop chamber, or inner barrel.
I'd recommend doing that anyways if you're gonna replace those parts as it could save you money, but if you're not gonna use his cylinder set then that kinda pushes it over the edge.

Also this.

The SSG is a good, solid platform, the bore up cylinder option could certainly increase your power a little but budgetary constraints might start to bite you depending on the route you take. It's kinda difficult to predict what sort of power you'll see ultimately until you finalise the build, and that should in turn give you an idea of the effective range......

In the UK a good AEG at 350fps (measured with a .2g BB) can certainly throw a .3g BB out to about 65m, perhaps a little more. A sniper rifle sitting at 2.3j and throwing a .48g BB is probably going to have something like 25m more effective range - roughly - on a good day. I don't think it's unreasonable to try to build a VSR to outrange your guys hitting 80m with an AEG but realistically, and considering the constraints of the materials, you might push 110, or 120m. Cripplegunner runs a 5j DMR for target shooting and even that struggles much beyond 110m for reference.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Why not get the ICS tomahawk, bigger volume so easier to get higher power as a longer barrel can be used, 3 way TDC to fine adjust BB flight path.

Any part installed a few degrees of dead perfect will show exponentially more the further the range and if you aren't 100% sure of how to build errors will happen, they won't show at 40-50m range but will when you start to increase.

Not being mean but it sounds like your new to sniping/building yet you come with the objective to reach distances that haven't been recorded even by the best tinkerers and minds which would likely require perfection if not custom made parts at stages.

Maybe aim for 100m and see how that goes.

You can't just jack up power and get more range to match, because you need exponentially more power for every 10m range increase in range. A 3j AEG would likely match a 4j sniper for all purposes for any real shots as bb's just aren't designed for accurate, long range flight.

ALSO this!

We're at the mercy of physics and aerodynamics - the same as high-performance cars or airplanes - and each little step beyond the established limits requires huge leaps in technology, as well as time and finances.

 

[SiliconeSword]

@Cripplegunner , I bet you have something wise to say

 

[Sodium]

Thinking about it, you may also want to consider an SRS. This wouldnt have the same trigger scraping issues that you'll likely run into with most other platforms at that power level. All you'd need to do is add a heavier spring, and maybe a tighter barrel.

I've heard that fullthrust really does help a decent bit. Never got into it because sourcing them would be scary if they get discontinued.

Also check out rhop patches. I've heard people gain energy from using rhop. You'd get a modify silicone flathop bucking and an elvish tactical or faceless rhop patch.

Regarding VSR triggers, check out the link in my bio

 

[Swollen.D]

Got some lingering questions, excuse my language barrier:

Pistons, how does piston's weight affect the performance ? Which ones provide more power ? This one here "ZERO FRICTION AIR KIT FOR VSR10 BY ESCWORKS" Very good price 50$, wonder if it's ssg10 compatible as well.

Cylinders, silly question, but are they all the same volume or do they differ like AEG cylinders do, with their cut outs ?

Barrels, Did I correctly understand that heavier the BB shorter the barrel is needed ? 430mm being perfect for .48 .49 does it mean I will be losing power and accuracy with longer barrels like 490-550 ? Asking coz, since I will be using supressor on top of it in order to be able to shoot through foliage, there's room for longer inner barrel. Will grab one from ESCworks 5.98.

Sound, any way to make the build more quiet ? or is it just another gimmick that isn't worth investing and losing power over ? That air kit I mentioned seems to have noise reduction ?

Bucking, Where I'm from Temps in winter are below 0c (freezing) and in summer over 36c to 42c+, shouldn't I have 2 of them ? Which ones should I get for winter and summer ? will be shooting 0.49bbs.

And final question, should I opt for a cheaper second hand SSG10 (150$ +/-) or boneyard JG / Cyma (50$ +/-) ?

 

[Doctor Jest]

If you check the VSR build guide, it does a far better job of answering those questions than I could in a post. It is on the long side but it does cover all those answers

Advanced VSR Sniper Building Guide

Sniping can be hard especially if you have a stock standard gun. In fact, you will not have a chance if you use a standard gun. As soon as you fire, you will most likely have about 4-5 bb's heading your way before you can finish cycling your next round. Even if you think that you are out of...

www.airsoftsniperforum.com

Cylinders - they are all the same for the VSR except for something like: Upgrade cylinder set VSR BU, stainless, Bore Up, AirsoftGuns

The trouble is, you can chase piston weight vs. BB weight vs. Cylinder Volume vs. Barrel Volume round in circles. I use .48g BBs with an Edgi 430mm barrel - no problems at all.

Sound - most of your sound reduction is achieved with getting the correct cylinder to inner barrel volume. If you then add a decent suppressor on top you should be fine. If you're shooting at 80+ m no-one is going to hear you anyway

Bucking - Maple Leaf 2021 80 or something similar to that.

 

[Swollen.D]

If you check the VSR build guide, it does a far better job of answering those questions than I could in a post. It is on the long side but it does cover all those answers

Advanced VSR Sniper Building Guide

Sniping can be hard especially if you have a stock standard gun. In fact, you will not have a chance if you use a standard gun. As soon as you fire, you will most likely have about 4-5 bb's heading your way before you can finish cycling your next round. Even if you think that you are out of...

www.airsoftsniperforum.com

Cylinders - they are all the same for the VSR except for something like: Upgrade cylinder set VSR BU, stainless, Bore Up, AirsoftGuns

The trouble is, you can chase piston weight vs. BB weight vs. Cylinder Volume vs. Barrel Volume round in circles. I use .48g BBs with an Edgi 430mm barrel - no problems at all.

Sound - most of your sound reduction is achieved with getting the correct cylinder to inner barrel volume. If you then add a decent suppressor on top you should be fine. If you're shooting at 80+ m no-one is going to hear you anyway

Bucking - Maple Leaf 2021 80 or something similar to that.

That answers a lot! Thanks.
Seems like I need 70g to 80g piston for the 4j spring that I'm going for. That BU cylinder you mentioned doesn't say how heavy the piston it comes with, that or either I'm blind. If anyone knows good piston to pair with Rapax 4j+ let me know. Also there's 2 types of 4j Rapax, one called RMS other one Hulk, which one should I opt for,their descriptions aren't really helpful.
Will keep to 430mm 5.98 barrel seems optimal for .49bb and 4j spring.
As for outer barrels, What is better Normal or G-Spec variants, gspecs seem to have same length barrel all thet way while normal ones get narrowtowards the end.