[Doctor Jest]

No problem, glad to point you in the right direction.

Outer Barrels: whichever you like. As long as the inner barrel is stable and stays aligned with the hop unit etc, it's just cosmetics.

Springs: the RMS 100% fits the VSR, I'm not sure about the Hulk. This seems to indicate that they do fit but I have no experience of them personally.

RAPAX Hulk Spring and some cylinder/barrel ratio musings

So I've been sitting on a Hulk spring for a few weeks and haven't bothered messing with it much until now. I had an SBA M170 spring installed on my build and was getting 3.3J with .43g and 3.45J with .48g (more on this later). The bolt pull is what I would call relatively easy, but I haven't...

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As far as the weight of the BU piston, I think you're right - it's not mentioned.

 

[SiliconeSword]

You'll need to add weight to the piston yourself with lead or copper wire and heat shrink. Not too difficult, and you can pretty much make a Wasp or Scorpion piston for a third the price.

For springs, I think the RMS is shorter and meant for VSRs as the normal springs sometimes will cause catching issues in some VSRs.

The tapered "Pro Sniper" outer barrel houses a 430mm inner barrel. The G-spec isn't tapered and houses a 303mm inner barrel. The SSG10 and Maple Leaf guns have a 430mm G-spec style barrel. If you want to make a one piece receiver you'll absolutely need a G-spec style barrel, as you install your hop chamber and barrel through the muzzle end of the barrel.

 

[Swollen.D]

No problem, glad to point you in the right direction.

Outer Barrels: whichever you like. As long as the inner barrel is stable and stays aligned with the hop unit etc, it's just cosmetics.

Springs: the RMS 100% fits the VSR, I'm not sure about the Hulk. This seems to indicate that they do fit but I have no experience of them personally.

RAPAX Hulk Spring and some cylinder/barrel ratio musings

So I've been sitting on a Hulk spring for a few weeks and haven't bothered messing with it much until now. I had an SBA M170 spring installed on my build and was getting 3.3J with .43g and 3.45J with .48g (more on this later). The bolt pull is what I would call relatively easy, but I haven't...

www.airsoftsniperforum.com

As far as the weight of the BU piston, I think you're right - it's not mentioned.

Just read that post you linked, seems those barrel to spring ratios are still unexplored, people seem to conduct experiments and tests in order to reduce power (with 3j and less springs) which is exact opposite of what I'm trying to achieve. In that post they figured 0.43bb was the better suited for 430mm ? I think Barrel to BB ratios are provided in those guides also try to stay in specific joule limit, so I might be repeating myself, but wouldn't doing opposite of what those people are doing be more powerful ? 480mm or 490mm for .48/.49 BBs? I'm not a scientist, but like using longer barrel with with heavier BB, wouldn't it make BB more accurate at longer range and more powerful ? Since more of the Air from cylinder is pushing it out and isn't wasted.

 

[SiliconeSword]

I think that at higher power the ratios change, as somebody I was talking to had their highest power with 5.98X490 with .48g at 3.9J with a weighted piston, which does seem different than the stated numbers.

I think bore diameter, power, and piston weight are all variables in the cylinder to barrel ratio thing.

 

[Sodium]

According to 1tonne, the piston weight has 0 effect on the barrel ratios he tested. He tested that too. I believe his ratios were taken with a 6.03mm id, so you you'd have to compensate for a tighter barrel. I think I calculated that a with a 5.98, 430mm is close to ideal.

 

[SiliconeSword]

Yeah, 430mm is probably a bit better, but I've run undervolumed barrels on my guns and it isn't really any worse. Unless you have like 100mm extra barrel, where you will probably lose power and accuracy. You'll find variations in all this stuff as there's still other variables, so none of this stuff is guaranteed really.

 

[Swollen.D]

I think that at higher power the ratios change, as somebody I was talking to had their highest power with 5.98X490 with .48g at 3.9J with a weighted piston, which does seem different than the stated numbers.

I think bore diameter, power, and piston weight are all variables in the cylinder to barrel ratio thing.

Interesting, that's what I am saying, more research is needed in more powerful builds.
I will be Pre-Ordering that 5.98 Barrel from Italy, but before that more research is needed to find the optimal size for 0.49BB and strongest spring. Also it being tighter 5.98 barrel, air should be more efficent and should be pushing BB further.
I wonder is that Hulk/RMS 4j+ As strong or stronger than Novritsch's M220 ? His springs have bad rep tho, they loose power a lot after little use.
Think I have my build mainly figured, it's just optimal inner barrel size is a mystery with 0.49BB and strongest spring, since no one is doing such builds and tests.

 

[Sodium]

Good idea on the m220 spring. Forgot about that. It's a 5J spring, so definitely a lot stronger than the RAPAX. Lot's of people here have achieved great results with overvolumed guns, as long as it's not excessive. You'll notice exactly 0 performanxe difference between a 370mm and 430mm barrel, save for minor fps changes maybe. While my calculatioms show 370 as ideal still, just grab the 430 if you wanna be sure. This way it'll also go to the end of the barrel. You can throw on a supressor after if you like as well. Typically I go for perfect ratios not for accuracy but instead to reduce the length of the gun as much as I can while maintaining power. This requires a custom outer though.

Also .49 are just .48. It's been shown time and time again that they actually only weigh .48. Idk why novi says otherwise.

 

[Swollen.D]

Good idea on the m220 spring. Forgot about that. It's a 5J spring, so definitely a lot stronger than the RAPAX.

Indeed, So does 5j spring change the equasion ?
Is 430mm still optimal or do we need to find The X in new equasion xD
M220 + 0.49BB + 5.98 Xmm = Optimal

 

[Sodium]

Indeed, So does 5j spring change the equasion ?
Is 430mm still optimal or do we need to find The X in new equasion xD
M220 + 0.49BB + 5.98 Xmm = Optimal

Probably not. 1tonne also tested different spring strengths. They all yield the same ratios. It's not worth obsessing over when it'll make 0 difference. Unless you wanna dedicate thousands to proper experimentation. In which case, just get a VSR-X and shoot ceramics.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Aye, all you'll see with that behemoth spring is more power. There's always some leeway around "perfectly optimal" and as sodium points out, whilst 370mm would be perfect, 430mm works absolutely fine.

 

[RonSwanson]

Just to set some expectations a 200 newton spring is going to the feel of pulling 21kg which would be about an m190 maybe m200 going higher will make the bolt pull real tiring over a day and forget quick follow up shots.

And if your BB FPS is too high the flight path will be erratic as the force's acting against its flight will be too much for it's inertia to likely handle.

 

[Doctor Jest]

I reckon an M220 would be sheer pain after a couple of games.....that's from a guy who lifts regularly and doesn't even notice an M150.

What I am pondering is exactly how much power you could get with that Bore up kit, a 5.98mm, and an M220. Has to be 5.5j or more........or you could go Cripplegunner's route and make life easier with a pimped DMR

 

[SiliconeSword]

I think that Rapax is 100% a better choice, they probably make the best VSR springs. I hope they move into AEG springs and stuff like that, probably an untapped market.
I've used a couple Novritsch springs in a friend's SSG10 and they were weak. The M220 he got was more like a 2.4J spring, since they sent him the wrong thing. Still hard to cock though, my shoulder hurt after 2 mags and I'm used to dumping like 50 shells of 12 gauge in a sitting. The other spring was supposed to be like 500 FPS, but it was like 1.7J. pretty annoying how a wrong spring and a weak spring were sent.

Beyond M170 I don't think that you'll have a super good time playing, as it's just really hard to cock. Funny how the best springer is way harder to use than a $170 .22lr.

 

[Doctor Jest]

.22LR is my god because rimfire is the only caliber in the UK where we can actually enjoy things like 10/22s........otherwise no semi-auto for us!

The Rapax I had was (admittedly my fault) the wrong length but it was an excellent quality spring. I'll certainly be picking up an RMS very soon as I felt the quality was superior to all the others I've used, be they Laylax, Guarder or whatever else.

 

[Swollen.D]

From all the info I've gathred from you kind people I think I've got the perfect build here:
Base - Novritsch SSG10.
Cylinder - Stock.
Piston - Whatever weighs 80grams (Let me know).
Trigger - Stock.
Spring - Rapax Hulk/RMS 4j (Being easier to pull than SBA M170 but stronger fps).
HopUP - AA Red.
Bucking - 85 Autobot.
Nub - Masada cnc arm.
Barrel - ESCWorks 5.98 430mm.
BBs - 0.49g
Let me know if anything else is needed and some DIY improovements. Thanks again.

As for DMR route what do you mean ? wouldn't 100m+ shots require HPA ? I have no experience with HPA systems, I hate the idea of corded gun & tank on the back pyro style.

 

[Doctor Jest]

You might want a TDC as I mentioned above but it's not essential with the setup you're proposing - it looks good!

As for DMR route what do you mean ? wouldn't 100m+ shots require HPA ? I have no experience with HPA systems, I hate the idea of corded gun & tank on the back pyro style.

You can absolutely make a DMR without HPA but the internal stress is significant. Forum user "Cripplegunner" has one or two.....check out some of his threads. The SCW piston is about 40g but it is sensationally well-made. For an 80g piston, you might have to look at adding weight to another piston as SiliconSword mentioned above....short of the Scorpion or WASP which are, IMO, too expensive but they might work for you.

 

[Swollen.D]

You might want a TDC as I mentioned above but it's not essential with the setup you're proposing - it looks good!



You can absolutely make a DMR without HPA but the internal stress is significant. Forum user "Cripplegunner" has one or two.....check out some of his threads. The SCW piston is about 40g but it is sensationally well-made. For an 80g piston, you might have to look at adding weight to another piston as SiliconSword mentioned above....short of the Scorpion or WASP which are, IMO, too expensive but they might work for you.

AEG dmr ? Stress is horrifying if you want to match vsr performance with it, I had my aeg shell cracked on M170 spring. Stress aside, the build cost is huge, you are looking at good 1k$ which is my 200% of my monthly salary 😂

As pistons I'll try to get those fancy ones as second hand for cheaper. And sorry what was TDC.

 

[SiliconeSword]

For the piston I'd recommend just adding weight to the stock one.

HPA is good, that'd let you get a cheap rifle and the barrel, bucking, and chamber.
I'd recommend the Wolverine BOLT, a 26/3000 tank, and whatever line and regulator. EPeS and the new Wolverine CAT5 regulators are supposed to be great, but they came out after I'd already bought a Polarstar MRS.

 

[Doctor Jest]

Top Down Center - it's a method of hop adjustment where you change the setting from directly above the hop unit, you can find it in some pistols and AEGs too.

TDC 2.0

Arguably the best TDC on the market. A must-have for every SSG out there!

tridos.design

As for AEG DMR.......here we go, M180 spring and 5j.

Another monster DMR completed and breathing

Here is my latest DMR project completed . The base system is APS ASR-110D Guardian . May be the easiest replica to convert . Short description what was done : Stock 380 mm aluminum 6.04 mm barrel exchanged with 605 mm stainless steel 6.02 mm one. A 16" handguard extension from "Nuprol" installed...

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