Help with gathering information about HPA for AEG

950 Views 55 Replies 7 Participants Last post by AsianGuy, 3 d ago

AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · 24 d ago

Howdy Everyone!
So I been away for nearly a year, mainly because I started Medical School and all hobbies were put on the backburner.
I’d like to get some games in this summer before Fall starts, but I’m honestly tired of how often my “gun is in the shop”. So I’m just going to bite the bullet so to speak and convert to HPA in the hopes it will resolve the various issues on my AEG
The problem is I know NOTHING about HPA and was wondering if anyone knew a resource that gave them a good foundation to get started – similar to the comprehensive TheAirsoftTech tutorials on youtube. The cursory search I’ve done was incredibility overwhelming (programming FCU, picking nozzles, deciding what PSI to operate on – didn’t even realize this was a thing, etc.)

Right now I’m strongly leaning on:
polarstar UGS as my HPA system
polarstar kythera or F2 engine – I really like the kythera being strictly mechanical, but I fear I’d miss the option of having auto/burst. Any feedback on the pro and cons of either system would be greatly appreciated

21 - 40 of 56 Posts

Plazmaburn

· #21 · 23 d ago

I have not heard of SparkLabs. With current exchange rates, the 500 euro is 545 USD, add shipping and that will likely be around the 600 usd mark. And that is just for the engine. Even their Raven engine is still 500 usd roughly.

I have not seen anyone in the US with one or really talking about it. (If they are then I must be in the wrong groups or something)

At least with most of the other engines, (probably not the pulsar yet) you can find data sheets and detailed performance evaluations.

I did fill out their give me info thang but I haven't heard anything from them. Did that back in December.

SiliconeSword

· #22 · 23 d ago

wyz2285 said:
I can't even find data sheet of these engines, how do you define it as the best?
From what I understood from their company page, the engines are handmade. I can not imagine hand wind solenoids (with at least 6mm travel!) going for anything above 20 rps.
The only spec they boast is the high air efficiency, which also is very misleading as they are talking about 0.2g bb with a decent length barrel. Once you up the BB weight and hop resistance I doubt that engine will be any good.

I was talking to an old member from here, Jeppe, and he was saying how his is pretty awesome and all that. I didn't ask about RPS, but that is an interesting point that I hadn't even considered. He offered to include me in a group buy, but the whole not compatible with the UGS thing was a total deal breaker. I think it's probably a better option if you're in the EU as I've seen Fusion Engines going for like $700, where the WOLF would actually end up being cheaper.
The I forget the air efficiency numbers they gave, but Joppe said he was using like 1.5CI of air per shot, whereas the F2 uses 2.74CI per shot going off of the Polarstar numbers. Not sure how much I'd trust that as I feel like the Polarstar numbers are purposely low so people don't get disappointed, while the WOLF could have been reaching and all that. But, from a couple other owners I have talked to, the shots per fill is very high compared to the other P* and Wolverine engines they've owned.

I took signed up on the email thing about a year and a half ago before I knew about the UGS thing, and I've still heard nothing. I think you have to know a guy who knows the guy to figure out anything, but rn I don't really care as my gun is doing pretty well.

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AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · #23 · 23 d ago

I've since realize the fields in my new local area won't allow full auto on non LMG...so it makes alot more sense for me to go down the kythera system route (and investigate full auto hpa system when maybe more information comes out on the gate pulsar)

In the meantime, I found this:

cults3d.com

Polarstar Kythera V2 cocking Lever for CGS/UGS users (8mm gearbox ver.)

This part allows you to cock your kythera with the AR15 charging handle. It is designed to be mounted with the gearbox bearing holes, and locked to the charging cable with a standard M3 flat head screw and nut. This is designed for UGS and CGS (and other airstock users) ONLY. It won't work...

cults3d.com

since we were also talking about 3d printing on this thread, I figured it might help someone down the line. It's a much more clever design to the charging handle mod IMO

I can't be sure it will work...as I never tested it...but I can't see how it can't functionally.

A lever is just more mechanically stable than the two spring method I been seeing people use

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Whamhammer

· #24 · 22 d ago

SiliconeSword said:
I think that your two best options would either be a UGS with a modified A1 stock that just fits over the tank with friction, or maybe you could have a Polarstar MR reg facing towards the rear of your stock with an air line routing back and through your castle nut or sling plate area, whichever is easier. The UGS would be more expensive, but you'd be able to swap tanks a bit faster compared to popping off your butt pad and fishing out your tank and line from the stock.

@AsianGuy
I probably should have mentioned it earlier, but unless you REALLY want a self contained gun, I'd just get an MR clone and a normal tank and line and run it from a CamelBak style backpack. It's a good deal cheaper than an air stock, and unless you run my mini tanks or CO2(CO2 is terrible) it's gonna be a lot more comfortable than trying to shoulder a 13/3000 tank.

If you can be convinced to go with the line without much effort, I'd go and get one of THESE and one of THESE, and a couple 7.4 HPA batteries, and of course the F2. Probably your best bet, as you could always sell the stuff and maybe even turn a lil profit on the tank to fund an air stock down the road.

I am not sure what you are meaning by a castle nut, the M16A1's full fixed stock doesn't have a castle nut, are you speaking about a collapsible stock?

Plazmaburn

· #25 · 22 d ago

You can easily semi lock any HPA, and then turn on FA at places that allow it. I run my fusion engine on semi only. Even though I do have the option to run it with full auto.

SiliconeSword

· #26 · 22 d ago

Whamhammer said:
I am not sure what you are meaning by a castle nut, the M16A1's full fixed stock doesn't have a castle nut, are you speaking about a collapsible stock?

I just mean like that area on a receiver, idk what it's called. Like your line would go through the center of that area right into your engine.

AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · #27 · 21 d ago

@Plazmaburn

I was more thinking along the lines of future proofing the investment. It’s likely once I go down this route I’ll likely get another HPA engine down the line. Seeing how F2 is about 5 years old, kythera has an implied auto version in the future, and pulsar has no real reviews yet – I figured I can just go with a step down downed version that I can throw into another AEG (perhaps a DMR) when I make an upgrade. I’ve notorious been unlucky with buying something and then 3months later, something better comes out at the same price point.

Collat3ral

· #28 · 21 d ago

Whamhammer said:
I am not sure what you are meaning by a castle nut, the M16A1's full fixed stock doesn't have a castle nut, are you speaking about a collapsible stock?

On a adjustable AR buffer tube there is a castle nut that applies pressure on the internal threads to lock the buffer tube in place.
As for the airstock option, this is my take. A modified ASA adapter with a 90° threaded hole for on/off (easier tank install, becaues there is no backpressure to ruin your threads), high pressure PA tubing (good for 90 bar), mancraft HRR regulator and some couplings and rods. The output from the regulator goes trough the bottom hole of the sling plate into the engine.

As for the Wolf, @SiliconeSword, I think we've disscussed on FB. In the EU it's comparable to other engines (F2 is arround 520€). I own a Raven and a Wolf, so if you have any questions I can anwser you. Loving them

. The only limitation is the RPS, max i've got from a raven is 27 and 32 from the wolf. Other than that, they simply work. And allso adjustable in more ways that I can use them: rps, fps (trough valve opening time with active valve position detection, can be set on selector position with the right FW), trigger pull, semi lock, burst, wolf allso with open/closed bolt, variable nozzle strenght, binary trigger,...)
My current shot count is 1700bb from a 13cu 3000 psi bottle @ 1,5J with a 270mm barrel and using .28g bbs.

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Whamhammer

· #29 · 15 d ago

Collat3ral said:
On a adjustable AR buffer tube there is a castle nut that applies pressure on the internal threads to lock the buffer tube in place.
As for the airstock option, this is my take. A modified ASA adapter with a 90° threaded hole for on/off (easier tank install, becaues there is no backpressure to ruin your threads), high pressure PA tubing (good for 90 bar), mancraft HRR regulator and some couplings and rods. The output from the regulator goes trough the bottom hole of the sling plate into the engine.

As for the Wolf, @SiliconeSword, I think we've disscussed on FB. In the EU it's comparable to other engines (F2 is arround 520€). I own a Raven and a Wolf, so if you have any questions I can anwser you. Loving them . The only limitation is the RPS, max i've got from a raven is 27 and 32 from the wolf. Other than that, they simply work. And allso adjustable in more ways that I can use them: rps, fps (trough valve opening time with active valve position detection, can be set on selector position with the right FW), trigger pull, semi lock, burst, wolf allso with open/closed bolt, variable nozzle strenght, binary trigger,...)
My current shot count is 1700bb from a 13cu 3000 psi bottle @ 1,5J with a 270mm barrel and using .28g bbs.

Yes, but the whole crux of what I was writing about was the use of a full sized, fixed, M16 stock; pointing to parts on an adjustable stock is counterproductive to that end.

SiliconeSword

· #30 · 15 d ago

Whamhammer said:
Yes, but the whole crux of what I was writing about was the use of a full sized, fixed, M16 stock; pointing to parts on an adjustable stock is counterproductive to that end.

I'm not 100% sure how an A1 stock attaches to an AEG, but I know that with ARs there's still a buffer tube that is inside of it, and that has to attach somehow. It would make sense that companies use the same types of receiver with different stocks, so you'd hopefully be able to attach a UGS and then modify your stock so it will slip over a mini tank or a CO2 rig.

As for worrying about threads on HPA tanks and what they screw into, I find that some good PTFE grease meant for bicycle bearings is very good on those threads, and I'd assume that any other similar grease would be just as good. The only issue with that is you'll want to keep it away from sand, but you should already be keeping that stuff away from sand to begin with. Doing so lowered my screwing force by like 75%, and I'm able to screw I further than ever before. No pun intended 😇

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Leo Greer

· #31 · 15 d ago

SiliconeSword said:
Doing so lowered my screwing force by like 75%.

My dude... are you alright?

Reactions: 2

AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · #32 · 14 d ago

Follow up question...
Do I need to confirm when buying a carbon fiber (or any tank for that matter) that if it's bottle only? Or has the, not sure what you call it, top?

I'm aiming to purchase a first strike hero 2 13/4500...but a couple of places state it's bottle only (like the first strike website themselves). I wouldn't have the faintest idea where to get the "top" separate

I'm only asking cause I'm seeing a wide gap in prices, from 140 to 230...and am wondering if one comes with the "top" and another not?

Leo Greer

· #33 · 14 d ago

I don't know anything about the first strike tanks, but you need two regulators total: the On-Tank regulator, which goes on the top of the tank and controls the base output pressure. These can either be regular (usually 800 PSI), or SLP, which is under 300. You need to know whether your Secondary regulatory needs SLP pressures or not.

The secondary regulator attaches to the on-tank regulator and lowers it via adjustable hex or screw to whatever output pressure you need for your build.

AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · #34 · 14 d ago

@Leo Greer

AAAHHH...that makes sense...maybe that's why I'm seeing these big difference in prices then
Can one assume on tank regular comes with it (if it's on the product picture without it specifically stating as such) or that's a big blind gamble?
I'm more or less asking if I have to email a vendor prior to purchasing it - it seems like an odd thing to ask...

my irrational fear:
Me: does wheels come with the car?
dealer: yes? confused look
Me: it doesn't cost extra?
dealer: no Looks around to see if he is being punked

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SiliconeSword

· #35 · 13 d ago

On ANSgear I think you can pick what first stage reg you want, but I'd price it out first.
A First Strike reg is $70 and you can get a decent one for $35 that's pretty much as good, so I'd maybe get the tank separately and screw on a cheaper reg yourself.
That gap in prices would probably mean with or without, but I think ANS explains whatever on their page.

The UGS handles both 800 and 300(HP and SLP), but if SLP is barely more expensive then I'd get that.

AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · #36 · 13 d ago (Edited)

@siliconsword

So I was actually looking at the ansgear.com website prior to my questioning...
Am I missing something here...

ansgear.com

First Strike Hero 2 Carbon Fiber Air Tank - Half Pint 13/4500 - Choose Your Regulator!

ANSgear is the worlds largest online paintball store in the world. Huge selection of Paintball Guns, Tanks, Masks, Loaders, Harnesses, Barrels and more. Fast & Free shipping will keep you up to date with all of the best paintball gear.

ansgear.com

The HK Army Basic - Black = 109.95
First Strike Hero 2 = 139.95

so...
a) what am I missing here with the difference in prices (at 109...I feel like I can pick up multi tanks and call it a day..this seems unusually cheap compared to all other vendors I came across)

b) how is the The HK Army Basic - Black so cheap? did I just happen to find a good deal for memorial day weekend? or is this not the "correct" product I'm looking for?

c) What are the perks of a HP vs. SLP? would I get locked out from various product or setup if I use one over the other?

d) I guess the last thing I'm curious is...what am I paying with with more expensive on tank regulators?

e) one last question...what is the safest? I don't want my face blown off...

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Leo Greer

· #37 · 13 d ago

AsianGuy said:
@Leo Greer

AAAHHH...that makes sense...maybe that's why I'm seeing these big difference in prices then
Can one assume on tank regular comes with it (if it's on the product picture without it specifically stating as such) or that's a big blind gamble?
I'm more or less asking if I have to email a vendor prior to purchasing it - it seems like an odd thing to ask...

my irrational fear:
Me: does wheels come with the car?
dealer: yes? confused look
Me: it doesn't cost extra?
dealer: no Looks around to see if he is being punked

I would always email to be sure.

Reactions: 1

SiliconeSword

· #38 · 13 d ago

The 109 is a cheaper first stage regulator. Actually just fine, I'd get that one for sure. That tank has been on sale a while, I think it was too expensive for people and they didn't sell.

SLP is only really important if you have a regulator like an Amped one that only takes SLP, but SLP tanks also screw in easier since there's 500 PSI less force opposing you. You can use HP and SLP in an HP regulator, but not the other way around. Most regs these days take both, with only a few weird ones being SLP only.

Imo not much. The Ninja Pro V2 is nice because it can be rotated in a limitless 360* and set in that position, allowing you to have the fill fitting or gauge be where you want them to be. The Hero 2 has a 6 or 8 position 360* rotating thing that you can change while the tank is pressurized, and is also the shortest reg out there and good for air stocks because of that. Cheap ones usually don't have any features, but imo those aren't at all necessary unless you have a specific goal. Anything should be fine as long as you can find rebuild kits later down the road, as it's annoying to not be able to fix stuff when you need to.

Pretty much all HPA tanks are safe as all regulators have burst disks that blow if pressure gets too high. As long as you don't set it on fire, spray in a combustible liquid, or hit it a lot with a sledgehammer you should be totally fine.
I'd say even safer than a Lipo as those things start a lot more fires than HPA tanks do.

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AsianGuy

Discussion Starter · #39 · 13 d ago

@SiliconeSword

I don’t know if I need full 360 rotatability, but being able to adjust where my gauge sits does have high appeal. Knowing my luck, it would be directly in the path of that stock rail on the UGS if I didn't pay for that feature. What you mention about easy of screwing in the tank oddly has an appeals to me too… I think I had some sort of trauma experience as a kid around high pressure or something.

Combined with what you said about the Hero 2 being the shortest reg … I feel like maybe that’s the winner? My only push back is as I’m digging, I saw a couple of post of people complaining about it. I do realize the bias in it…if you sell more product…you will have more chances of people to complain about it too

Who are the goto “players” in the HPA tank or regulator game?

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SiliconeSword

· #40 · 13 d ago

I think you're all good, Polarstar made the rail so that's not an issue as they used cheap 13/3000 tanks to base their setup around. The 360* adjustment thing is a bit overrated imo, as you can usually back the tank out a lil bit and have the gauge where you want it. I wouldn't worry about checking your pressure too much as you should just be able to count mags once you know how many mags you get out of a tank.

Ninja is the OG, idk how good their customer support is, but I've NEVER had issues with my 90/4500 and Pro V2 reg in the 6 years I've had it. Guerilla is solid, idk much about them, but they're old and there don't seem to be issues.

Back in 2019 and 2020 I bought 4 FS regs back when they were $39 and $44 a piece, and 3 of them quit working not long after. I took a while to look at them, but the seal on the piston thing inside was wrecked, and a replacement would require a $20 kit that I didn't feel like getting 3 of. Then last year I emailed FS about maybe getting a bag of the lil seals as I realized there was a sharp cone they were getting pushed into, but they ended up just giving me 5 FOR FREE.
The new ones and one of the old ones had a flat end on the cone thing while the other 3 old ones were sharp, so it seems like they fixed that.
For $69 a piece idk how worth it they are even though I own a lot of them now, as that's what a Ninja Pro V2 cost 3 years ago whereas now they're about $100. Makes a cheap reg look a lot more enticing even if it's a half inch longer or doesn't rotate for gauge positioning.

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