[Joshriggall]

Hi all, first time posting on here.

I need some help. I have recently bought a vsr10 and had a mancraft co2 hpa system put in. It got its first field test today and I have to say I’m very disappointed with the results, I’m running all standard internals (which may be the issue).

The first 3 shots all went in different directions without me making any alterations and aiming at the same target, does anyone have any advice on what I can do to get a more consistent shot?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[DangerDan]

hpa is only a power source, range and accuracy comes with the hopup and barrel setup.

 

[Plazmaburn]

Hopup, barrel, and most importantly the bbs you are using. If the rifle is bone stock aside from the hpa system, aa hopup unit, a decent quality tight bore, maple leaf bucking and nub.

 

[Endurance]

Am I right that your regulator is new? If so it will need a lot of shots using it until it will start being more consistent.

 

[Joshriggall]

Yes it’s all a brand new system

 

[Endurance]

Yes it's all a brand new system

Unfortunately, you will have to fire an estimated 1000-3000 shots using the regulator to break it in so it is more consistent.

 

[MagicMarker]

Unfortunately, you will have to fire an estimated 1000-3000 shots using the regulator to break it in so it is more consistent.

Where is this coming from exactly? OP didn't mention what regulator they're using, and I've never heard of regulators having break-in periods.
And on the topic: If you have a wealth of experience with different regulators, would you be able to suggest ones that offer particularly consistent output? I'm under the impression that a primary factor in PSI consistency is the difference between starting and ending PSI (that is, going from 800 to 160 is not as reliable as going from 300 to 160)- but I've always wondered if one regulator would be better than another, even with the same input/output.

 

[wyz2285]

Industrial regulators.
They will beat "airsoft" regulators without mercy. While most have a limites 300 psi input, the consistency and flow rate is just not comparable (for obvious reasons. These are used for CNC tool change and lathe chucks and have to supply for several uses at once). The ones I use cost only 35 euros and all I have to do is remove one spring disc from a standard 850psi preset bottle to reduce it to around 300 psi.

 

[Jeppe]

If these bottle regulators can power paintball markers effortlessly, they can probably power airsoft makers at 1/10 the energy use as well.

That's like 500 joule impact energy per second.

 

[Jeppe]

Output power on HPA airsoft markers is generally insanely consistent.


Precision, which is what OP is asking for, is a different matter.

 

[MagicMarker]

Industrial regulators.
They will beat "airsoft" regulators without mercy. While most have a limites 300 psi input, the consistency and flow rate is just not comparable (for obvious reasons. These are used for CNC tool change and lathe chucks and have to supply for several uses at once). The ones I use cost only 35 euros and all I have to do is remove one spring disc from a standard 850psi preset bottle to reduce it to around 300 psi.

Links to such regulators? For that cost I might buy one just to test it out against a Palmers Boulder- already seem to have perfect consistency, but maybe if I remove a regulator we'd see one perform better than another. I would honestly like to replace at least my last inline regulator, as I've had some annoying problems with the Boulder, and adjusting the PSI seems sloppy- despite its consistency, whether it's the gauge having a bad fit to the body, or the regulation itself, it doesn't seem to want to allow fine adjustment.
I'd also like to know how you're testing consistency, because plastic BBs are too inconsistent to trust, and most chronographs seem to be liars as well :/

 

[wyz2285]

Well I buy them from a local retailer, the brand of the regulator (and fittings I use) it's Italian but I need to check the name.
I use a pressure gauge with quick disconnect and connect it to the out put repeatedly and check if the pointer always goes to the same position. So far I'm getting variation of +-1 psi.
I'm particularly fond of them compared to the paintball counter part (also have a CP inline, used to have several) is the ease of adjustment and better refresh rate and flow rate, probably because coil spring is more responsive than disc spring.

 

[MagicMarker]

Hm, could you possibly post some pictures of the reg/setup? And what might be some good keywords to search for a similar regulator? Seems the industry in general has a...a lot, and I'm unsure how to narrow things down other than manually searching for input/output and size.
Ahh, that's a good idea with the gauge! I'm not seeing anything much more accurate than 5PSI tick marks going to 200- though that would still show quite accurately.
That's so odd about the springs though. The Boulder uses a coil and is $80, whereas the Redline SFR everyone seems to suggest is $150 and uses discs...none of this seems to add up

 

[wyz2285]

This is what I found by searching 1/4 air pressure regulator: https://www.festo.com/cat/en-ca_ca/products_MS4N_LR
Festo is IMO a good brand, however I have only used they QDs.
Also using these they always come with detailed data sheet, like flow rate. For airsoft you're most likely just getting some vague description saying how good it is.
Redline is, to me, the most shameless airsoft HPA company out there. Their N7 milsim is a worse copy of the Mancraft system and sold more expensive!
When comes to non airsoft exclusive parts (like HPA systems) I avoid anything that has "airsoft" on it, it only means less quality and more expensive. Because the market is still new, users are generally young and lack people debunking false advertising.

 

[d3m0]

Hi, I'm very interested in those regulators..... If you can show us light about a particular model you will be making happy a lot of people. Before I purchase SMC Arx20 I did a light search and as Magicmaker said, industrial world is a big world... So I cannot found a industrial reg that can be put after a SLP tank and handles 300psi plus giving an usable output of 120-140 psi for a "regular" [email protected] standard.

So in my opinion this info will be very valuable.

Thanks!!

 

[docfire]

What a changeling issue, which regulator. It really comes down to what system you will be using it on, kind of..... There are two generally types of regs used for the Airsoft/PB sport, Unbalanced & Balanced Poppet regs. Now most are of the unbalanced variant due to manufacturing cost and the fact that most are using a two reg system.

What... two Regs system, what u talking about Willis. Most airsoft/PB systems start with a tank reg which take the 3000/4500 psi down to around 850 or 450 psi. This psi is now inputted in to the 2nd reg, which for airsoft reduced it down to 0-200psi range.
Now in paintball most systems start at 850psi then it reduced to 400psi this is generally a reasonable psi reduction jump. But in airsoft the large reduction jump could adversely affect the final output psi, causing inconsistency. Additionally, the quality of the 1st regulatory can adversely affect the secondary reg.

Now back to unbalance vs balanced poppet regs. Both regs work well in paintball and airsoft but there are some advantages of a balanced reg.
A balanced reg is less sensitivity to supply pressure effect, which means it can handle variances in PSI better. In addition, a balance reg system can potently produce more flow. More expensive to produce.
Unbalanced regs are cheaper to make and generally provide the required air regulation for airsoft/PB.

As mentioned above by wyz2285, he has good luck with an industrial system and a modified input tank reg. His fist stage reg take 3000/4500 psi and reduces it to 300 and then the second stage reg takes it down to 0-200ish psi. This minimal psi reduction between the two regs allow for more consistency. Now keep in mind that his indusial reg is most likely an unbalance reg, but that's ok here because his input PSI is low. Now keep in mind we do not know what his first reg (tank reg) is.

KEY NOTE HERE is the primary (tank) reg output psi is a closer value to the intended secondary reg output. Equal the work output.

Now I tend to agree with the poster on the Airsoft/PB industry ability to claim outlandish "facts" and the ability to copy other blowgun designs. Now that does not mean their product is crap it just means it's their design on the mouse trap (blowgun).

So back to the topic, which regulator. Ok lets set some goals for our system in high to low priority.

Goals

Low cost (LOL):

Ok let's get realistic here. To go HPA cost more upfront than AEG/Green Gas, if you do it right. KEY THING IS DOING IT RIGHT. Also, where do you play and do, they support HPA fills. SCUBA tanks are expensive.

next page

 

[docfire]

Continued

Consistent regulations :

This is what we are really after RIGHT. How do we get this, well it requires a system of parts and any weak link in those part may cause the dreaded sad face. First, let's start with the foundation of the air supply system, the tank/reg. Now most airsoft stores generally will provide mid to low grade tank systems (850psi). These systems, although priced cheap, are the Achilles Heel of a system and cause "sad face." I have had more of these tanks be to culprit of poor chrono constancy PERIOD! They tend to not regulate consistent before and after BREAK-IN, yes reg BREAK-IN is a thing for regs. If you primary reg is not constantly providing air, your secondary reg will suffer. In this situation, if you secondary reg is an unbalanced type, it will suffer and potentially be inconsistent over the chrono. Now if it's a balance reg it will take that poor input pressure and manager it better. A balance reg works smarter and not harder. Most airsoft/PB regs are unbalance except the Redline SFR. Now keep in mind the redline air-stock reg is an unbalanced version hence why they want you to use a low input tank (<300psi.)

So, dose that make all unbalance regs crap? Well, NO, unless you feed them crap, "poorly regulated air." The funny thing is almost all secondary airsoft regs and build the same. Most issues come from poor workmanship, cheap o-rings and seals, and lake of maintenance which affects refresh rate and PSI consistency. Also, as mention above BREAK-IN is a thing with regs. Just like a new car motor requires break-in for top performance. It's generally 1000-10,000 cycles of the reg and this will need to happen after each rebuild.

So, we have talks about the two regs in the supply chain buy what about the hose. Well just like a garden hose if it's too small or to long, kinked or damaged will affect the transfer fluid.

So, the moral of the consistent supply system is do not cheap out on any of the parts and treat them as a complete system. But let's say you got one of those 850psi mid/low range tanks then what secondary reg should I get to "save $$" well your best bet for now IMO is the Balanced Redline SRF reg.

Usability with other guns:
Newer HPA air systems will work across all HPA engines (FA, and Sniper).

So which reg system. Well that a hard one. I live in the USA and Mancraft stuff is hard to get, so make sure what ever you get you will be able to service and get parts.

My systems

Tank

1. Set at 450 to 300 psi
2. https://powerhouseregs.com/ and HK Army AeroLite2 Pro (super consistent)
3. Ninja PRO V2 SLP 300psi on 13ci tank

Secondary reg

1. Wolverine
2. Palmers paintball Bolder and Stabilizer reg. (Great for 0-300 psi)
3. Old Ninja LPR (looks like the older redline reg) need to break-in
4. Interstate Pneumatics WRCO2 CO2 Regulator (shush works great and cheap $$)
5. Ninja LPR 2 reg (do not buy kind of junk) utilizes the tank pin valve for regulation&#8230;errrrr

Hose

1. Ninja Big Bore lines with foster connectors