I am a Christian and I have something for you to listen to.

After a long time I'm back, I've had a busy period at work so logged on answered questions on forum and gone again, but now I have more free time so can watch videos and debate.

The discovery has been investigated since it's claims and proved to be natural formations

The Turkish government appears to have since blocked all attempts to use modern scientific equipment to investigate recently.

The ships construction and size needed would also have caused massive structural issues as well, given the construction methods available at the time.


The amount of animals on-board is also not enough to support the diversity needed, we are already seeing issues with animals now due to lack of numbers causing inbreeding, even with the 2 to 7 qouted in various religious texts.

The source and devastation of the flood has always been a mystery, where did the water come from (given we have the water cycle it can't magically appear) and the devastation to the land would likely be extreme for such an event, likely destroying all long term food source and plant life, the amount of water alone would most likely cause most plants to die from rot (even they somehow survived being underwater for so long without air to survive) as well as cause too much ground water to making planting seeds viable surely.

Thanks Ron Swanson for the reply. It is a good reply. -Long read though and a lot of it is over my head and I am guessing it is over many peoples heads.
The article written by Creation Science may or may not be correct. I think we need to note that a lot of scientists and atheists who are against the bible have said that they will not believe in God even if they had found 100% proof. Same goes for the finding of the ark. If it was found, then they still would not believe. So they are very close minded to something that is a real possibility. We also need to note that the scientist that went to disprove the ark was a sceptic (he said this in he writeup) and so his world view is that "there is no God". So he may be willing to explain away anything just so he can feel as though there is no God. If there is no God then we do not have to be accountable to anyone for what we do in life. We can carry on enjoying our sin without any accountability.
The opposite can also be said too though. If you believe in God, you may be willing to accept anything that looks like evidence of a God. Even if it is not. This can happen.
But at the moment, this article is one scientist against another and as this article says, they do need to be allowed to go back there for more tests. But with these Lorence Collins finding and theories, it may possibly not be the ark. But it cannot be ruled out still as he himself said it needed more study.

Regarding the space in the ark. There is enough space easily in the ark.
Check out this video. It is made also by scientists.
Noah’s Ark and the Flood: Science Confirms the Bible - August 8, 2019 - YouTube

Overall, the noah's ark thing is only a minor proof. It is not needed but it is cool to ponder.

Better proofs of a creator are seen in all the order of creation. How can everything be made so perfect? Like the eye which is made up of 100 million cells. If these were not perfectly placed, you would not be able to focus or see shape or colour. We would all be blind.
Here is a great video about Irreducible Complexity that is only 5 minutes. It has an argument that evolutionist cannot explain.
Expert Destroys Darwin’s Theory in 5 Minutes - YouTube

I’m very pleasantly surprised to see a thread like this here. I’m both happy to see fellow believers sharing their faith in intelligent, quantifiable ways, but also to see fellow airsofters of all beliefs also speaking intelligently, and without the “debate malice” that so often accompanies these discussions like flies to a carcass.

Now that I’m here, I might as well say my piece. Everyone hold on tight!

@1tonne Are you familiar with Ken Ham? I feel like you’d enjoy what he does. Check him out on the Googles.

I’m familiar with the claim of having found Noah’s ark, and I have to conclude that it has not been found. The limited investigators found extraordinarily little hard evidence for anything, and after the amount of time that’s passed since the ark “landed”, it would naturally be decayed into oblivion.

Also, a piece of practical evidence; you’ve just arrived in what’s basically a whole new world—what do you do first? Well, you take your ark apart and you use the materials to survive! No way you’re just going to let that wood sit there doing nothing!

I didn’t read through 100% of this thread, so my answers may not be as on target as they should. In that case, let me know if I say something crazy. (Rando statement crazy, not Christianity related crazy )

@RonSwanson the Biblical cosmology (just a word for how you view the history of the universe), states that God created the earth in seven days, including mentioning that each of these days are one morning and one evening, and dinosaurs were created along with every else on day five.

To get into proper detail, before y’all fact check me into oblivion. The Bible patently rejects the idea of evolution, and of Big Bang cosmology. Evolution requires death in order to function, and in the Biblical creation account, death only comes into play after humans and animals are created. In fact, God looked at people and animals after creating them and said, “This is good”. If everything had evolved, God would’ve been calling death, good. The Bible also states that birds came before reptiles, among other things. The Bible rejects Big Bang cosmology by stating that the earth came before the sun, among other items.

You ask about why the Bible doesn’t ever say a thing about dinosaurs. Here’s the cheese:

The word dinosaur didn’t exist until the 1800s. More likely, it would translate to something similar to lizard.

After the flood of Noah, many creation scientists believe that large reptiles no longer had the immense food sources and increased oxygen levels required to survive, and may have quickly died out.

Being restricted in the number of animals Noah was able to bring on the ark created an immense pruning of genetic diversity. As many history teachers can tell you, many of the historical royal families were chronically inbred and suffered mental and physical issues due to recycling of damaged genes. (This is called genetic compounding, where successive generations multiply the chance of damaged genes become prominent.) Conservation scientists will talk this when species get down to very low numbers. If the genome isn’t collectively large enough, you eventually create offspring that are so damaged they can’t function. This could’ve led to a non viable population for many species.

In Job, God describes two creatures that are often discussed; leviathan and behemoth. Let’s talk about behemoth, as I think it’s the more familiar of the two. God is describing natural things rather than metaphors or ideals, so I don’t see a reason why behemoth should be considered a fable based on the language—no one questions God’s description of wind storms etcetera as mythical. Moving forward, the actual description fits, to a tee, our understanding of sauropod dinosaurs of various species. What it does not fit, are any of the modern animals proposed to be behemoth, such as hippos, elephants, or anything else.

Finally, I have just one question;

Have you ever felt the emptiness inside you? When the fun of whatever toy or experience runs out, and you feel dead inside, frustrated at everything around you, until you reach the next experience? And when those experiences become mundane and boring, what do you do? How do you feel? What is the goal of it all? Why do you do it?

Leo Greer said:

@1tonne Are you familiar with Ken Ham? I feel like you’d enjoy what he does. Check him out on the Googles.

I’m familiar with the claim of having found Noah’s ark, and I have to conclude that it has not been found. The limited investigators found extraordinarily little hard evidence for anything, and after the amount of time that’s passed since the ark “landed”, it would naturally be decayed into oblivion.

Also, a piece of practical evidence; you’ve just arrived in what’s basically a whole new world—what do you do first? Well, you take your ark apart and you use the materials to survive! No way you’re just going to let that wood sit there doing nothing!

I didn’t read through 100% of this thread, so my answers may not be as on target as they should. In that case, let me know if I say something crazy. (Rando statement crazy, not Christianity related crazy )

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I do like Ken Ham. Answers in Genisis are great.

Regarding the Ark being found, I did read a large writeup (I thought it was on this thread, though I cannot find it) by one of the main opponents to it being found. Even though he was certain that it had not been found, he too also said that it needed more investigation to truly disprove it.
Though, if it is not the ark, then that is fine. There is more proof in creation than in showing people a boat. The boat can help start conversations though which can lead to an interesting conversation.

This post made me think about Living Waters latest video. You can watch the whole thing (It even has a pic of Ken Ham in it and Answers in Genisis) but at the end the atheist has some wise things to say. I advise watching the whole thing but if you only want to see the wisdom from the atheist, then check out from 11:21 onwards. (It only goes for about 25 seconds)
Atheists Just Accused Answers in Genesis of Something BIG. - YouTube

SiliconeSword said:

I enjoy hearing these stories and legends and appreciate them for what they are and the messages they hold, but you do have to use your own judgement and read between the lines so to speak.

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Agreed. It is only speculation. But it is amazing how these types of stories/myths are worldwide, and the drawings are very similar (even though they had no internet to copy pictures).

The solid proof of God is in creation. One of my favourite verses is Romans 1:20. Not sure if I have already posted it on here but here it is:
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20.
So, when it comes to the end, none of us will have an excuse as each person has seen what has been made in nature. We can try to explain it away by saying that nothing was the intelligence that put it all together, or that it all just fell together over billions of years, but in the end, that will not save you.

@Leo Greer I'm not going to argue because wisdom has taught me I can't change someone's mind with blind faith in a divine being, and you can't change my mind from placing my trust in science.

As long as everyone is happy and doesn't cause discomfort or unhappiness to anyone is all that really matters really with our finite time in existence. I'm just a guy who enjoys the simple pleasures of life, I don't believe thier is a purpose to it all, but that in itself is amazing and special. I don't feel the need to understand it all, or feel it needs purpose.

Also I don't feel a dullness or boring to life, I don't find my self chasing a bigger high, what you described is almost like a drug addicts descent into harder drugs lol. What you described with an emptiness sounds like depression, if you feel like that please seek professional help.

I implore you to please not think of everyone non religious as feeling empty as you may find they are people who truly embrace life and it's wonders.

RonSwanson, please don’t take this as a malicious response. But I’d like to tell you what the Bible says.

Everyone has heard or read some form of John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Most people never hear the next two verses:
John 3:17-18 “For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God.”

To go to Hell when you die, absolutely nothing is required of you. You were born a sinner, as a member of Adam’s race. You can be a good guy, friendly, upstanding, but you’ll still die and go to Hell if you never get saved.

I’d like to invite you to read the book of Ecclesiasties. The man who wrote it was Solomon, and he tried it ALL. Richest, wisest man who ever lived, and at the end, he said:

”Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil.”

THIS is the purpose of life! If it’s not, then why am I so happy to live the wonderful life He’s given me?! I’ve seen those who spent their life in His service in His presence, and they are the kindest, sweetest people you’ll ever meet. They behave like Jesus because they are so close to Him.

Look at it this way, also: Let’s just say I’m wrong about this. That there is nothing after life, no God, no Heaven or Hell.

If I’m wrong, what have I lost? Nothing! But if you’re wrong, you will only realize it when it’s too late

And this is not an” I’m right and you’re wrong! Ha gotcha!” No, it’s just the grace of God that I am what I am. I’m a sinner saved by Grace! I just wanted to try to present a Biblical view on what has been said.

RonSwanson said:

@Leo GreerI can't change someone's mind with blind faith in a divine being, and you can't change my mind from placing my trust in science.

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This is true. You can't change our minds just as we cannot change your mind. But in the process of talking, we hope and pray that God reveals himself to people. There is a bible verse that says "Neither the planter or the waterer are anything. For it is God who creates the growth". So, we may plant a seed by speaking but it is God who creates the change in the person. Not us.

Also, blind faith can be looked at from both ways. Blind Faith can be trusting in current day scientists who never lived billions of years ago and so they rely on historical science to come to their conclusion. A scientific method is based on: “The collection of data through observation and experimentation”. How can someone observe evolution when the process is said to be over millions of years. Nobody can observe it. It is only a theory. So not science, but it is taught as true science.
It can be said that someone who believes in evolution can have a greater faith than someone who believes in creation. It seems illogical for nothing to have the intelligence to make everything.
Our world has logic and order to it. Everything ordered and logical needs intelligence for it to be made. Just like the building needs a builder, a painting needs a painter, likewise, creation needs a creator.
The only thing that is not created would be the uncaused cause. That is the creator of all.

RonSwanson said:

I implore you to please not think of everyone non religious as feeling empty as you may find they are people who truly embrace life and it's wonders.

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I agree here. Many non-believers love their life, and they feel like everything just seems to go their way. This can be especially so for people who are well off. They have lots of money and so they do not need anything else. Life seems great. The Bible speaks of these people. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God". Why would they need God if they already feel as though they have everything?

On science and God, that is an interesting topic. My background is in science, I have bachelor's and masters degree in Mechanical Engineering. Mostly did medical device (heart valves, eye stuff), with some life science work and military aircraft to round it out. Some fun microfluidics and math modeling....So I approach things from a logical perspective. If my belief system is not logically sound and I discovered that, or it was shown to me... than I would have to change my belief system.

My view of God is based upon the Bible. This is because from a scientific, historical, literature view it makes sense.

So, to start with....lots of references so far to creation here. I have a different view than those mentioned. This is an accepted view in Biblical theology, though not as well known especially in the US. I believe the Bible is the word of God and it describes a universe that was created over time. This agrees with cosmological observations of an old universe (13-14 billion years). Big bang singularity- yep, the creation out of nothing (including initiation of time). Expanding universe, yes see Isaiah 40:22 God stretched out the heavens. Logically... if there was a start, "a beginning" than there has to be a begginer (God). From a non Biblical standpoint...Not much on valid alternative options either...Darwinian evolution has problems of cells being micro machines (not simple), lack of credible transitional beings, not enough time and on......

Happy to get into the non-science aspects as well , but thought it good to throw this out as food for
Thought. Also,,,The whole flood thing is another issue, I personally believe (biblically and logically ) it was likely a local flood ... that could be a whole other topic.

The biblical God is a god of order. And Love. He gave us logic and science, and his son Jesus, to die for us....(yes, believing this is logical as well, this gets into historical and literary evidence)

So, general Big Bang cosmology states an expanding universe, with the resulting dust cloud accumulating mass and gravity over time to form into galaxies, and then into solar systems, etc, etc. (I’m generalizing here) What do you believe about day Four of creation? The Bible states that God created the stars on day four, along with the sun and moon, whereas normal Big Bang cosmology would state that the earth came after everything else.

If the flood of Noah truly was a local flood, what do you believe about these
passages from Genesis 7? (“Finally, the water covered even the highest mountains on the earth, rising more than twenty-two feet above the highest peaks. All the living things on earth died—birds, domestic animals, wild animals, small animals that scurry along the ground, and all the people. Everything that breathed and lived on dry land died. God wiped out every living thing on the earth—people, livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and the birds of the sky. All were destroyed. The only people who survived were Noah and those with him in the boat. And the floodwaters covered the earth for 150 days.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭7‬:‭19‬-‭24‬ ‭NLT‬‬)

I think Darwinian evolution has more issues than that. Most notably the big and simple one; no matter how long the wind blows that dust around, it’ll never turn into DNA…