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If you ran your military (Please only vote once for handguns and once for rifles)

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If you ran your own military?

4121 Views 24 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  revenant, 
U
I saw this on the other forum and it left alot of stuff out so I'm gonna put one here.
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revenant said:
Really? If both are chambered in 5.56 NATO (standard for those rifles in their military variants), what magic does the G36 use to achieve 1.5X range using the same cartridge...? I could agree that the piston vs gas tube design is superior, though.

G36

M4

And using the word retarded is, well- retarded. Just an opinion. You're free to say what you wish, but it's a matter of presentation, presentation, presentation... :shrug:
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In those two links you posted. Look on the side. And scroll down a bit.
G36 effective range 800M
M4 effective range 500M

Besides. If you can keep your hand on the trigger, and use your off hand to pull the bolt back, you can resume shooting, and stay on target much more easily, right?

Now I'm not saying the AR's aren't good. And the right person can make it work. Look at Chris Costa, that guy is an animal. But for an army the G36 would be much better suited, as it's just so much easier to use, and well... H&K.
I do love the looks of the M4 more than the G36, but I've seen shooting tests, and durability tests and the G36 are always better. You hear about stuff going wrong with M4s all the time, but how often do you have a problem with an H&K gun? I will, however, give the rate of fire to the M4.
Funny coincidence, V3 GB(G36) is much better than the V2 GB(M4.) Irrelevant lol.

I'm not just knocking the M4, I mean if I had to use it in a war, I'll gladly take it. But If I had a choice, I'd take the G36.
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SixCell
0326reconman said:
I do love the looks of the M4 more than the G36, but I've seen shooting tests, and durability tests and the G36 are always better. You hear about stuff going wrong with M4s all the time, but how often do you have a problem with an H&K gun?
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Why dont you then go for the H&K 416, same "look" as the m4, but H&K reliability & goodies.
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revenant
G36 effective range 800M
M4 effective range 500M

I saw that, reconman, I'm not doubting your data- but I do have issues with the definition of "effective range" used in there.

Honestly, I am wondering how they are defining this alleged effective range. If it's the same cartridge, with the same energy- the effective range of the CARTRIDGE has to be the same, no? Trust me, having done my share (a LOT!) of benchrest shooting and accurizing, mostly on the 5.56/.223 and their variants, that effective range number is meaningless.

Effective range, how? How far I can put that round? How far that round has significant energy to incapacitate a target? Hit a man sized target, regardless of effect? In the end, this is pretty accurate, and "effective range" doesn't mean SQUAT when comparing platforms that fire the same round.

Now granted the G36 has in my opinion, far superior control surfaces, and the piston design makes for reliability that the AR/M4 platform cannot match. But range, with the same cartrdge? I call BS on that. :)

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

This definition makes effective range VERY subjective, IMHO. Not meant as a slam, just a statement of data/viewpoint.
Respectfully, Rev.
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revenant said:
G36 effective range 800M
M4 effective range 500M

I saw that, reconman, I'm not doubting your data- but I do have issues with the definition of "effective range" used in there.

Honestly, I am wondering how they are defining this alleged effective range. If it's the same cartridge, with the same energy- the effective range of the CARTRIDGE has to be the same, no? Trust me, having done my share (a LOT!) of benchrest shooting and accurizing, mostly on the 5.56/.223 and their variants, that effective range number is meaningless.

Effective range, how? How far I can put that round? How far that round has significant energy to incapacitate a target? Hit a man sized target, regardless of effect? In the end, this is pretty accurate, and "effective range" doesn't mean SQUAT when comparing platforms that fire the same round.

Now granted the G36 has in my opinion, far superior control surfaces, and the piston design makes for reliability that the AR/M4 platform cannot match. But range, with the same cartrdge? I call BS on that. :)

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

This definition makes effective range VERY subjective, IMHO. Not meant as a slam, just a statement of data/viewpoint.
Respectfully, Rev.
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I never thought about it that way, you make a good point. I just generally assumed that effective range was how far out it got.
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revenant
The only reason it ocurred to me is that once I mnounted a decent optic to my AR, I was WAYYYYYY more effective out to 200, even 300 yards on a good day as oppossed to say 100-150 yards with irons/red dot.

I am sure the bullet was equally lethal in either case, but the scope added a LOT of (what to me is) effective range, as in consistently being able to hit my target. At least that's how my brain thinks about it. :)

Hope it helps! Rev
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