Inner barrels resovled
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Bore size is a challange of fps.
Length is a challange volume.
This is built for bore size. But my math for my sr 25 (v2.5 gearbox) puts it at just under 500mm max. Better hint shorter then longer.
I like the IR-hops more because they are much easier to work with, and seem more durable than the standard material (not saying it isn't - it's still incredibly durable). I would recommend the Maple Leaf bucking and a standard nub. Once you gain more experience, try a few R-hop installs on old stock barrels. Wouldn't want to ruin an expensive aftermarket barrel.
In other words, if I put a bore-up kit in my sr25 I will have no problem with the orga Magnus 6.23 509mm barrel?
I'm sorry for all the questions but I'm a beginner when it comes to this.
I'm choosing between orga, pdi and a promethious barrel.
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theroy says, but even if you don tsee a huge fps drop, being really long also means you cant "snap shot" as well
Snap shot? Maybe I should buy a shorter outer barrel and a 455mm inner barrel. Want a new outer barrel so I can get threads
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I am trying to decide between a tot miracle barrel 469mm (6.06 bore) and a prometheus stainless steal 469mm barrel (6.03 bore). I want to squeeze as much range as possible out of my gun, ill also be putting in a full bore cylinder.
Or maybe another barrel completely? (although i looked into getting a pdi 05 and it looks like a major pain in the arse)
Please offer your advice and opinions! thanks so much!
Or maybe another barrel completely? (although i looked into getting a pdi 05 and it looks like a major pain in the arse)
Please offer your advice and opinions! thanks so much!
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So, just to get this straight, as a sniper we are looking at installing the widest bore possible with the strongest power system (i.e. MOST appropiate) for its volume, normally we would frown upon someone needing over 550 FPS -IF- this person is using something along the lines of 6.03 or something like that, BUT, when it comes to WIDE bore barrels it appears we DO need the really high power output to compensate for volume and attain that awesome accuracy, right?
So the "absolute best" (i know, i know this is a very relative term), in the sense of what we should strive for as sniper rifles would be something like what you say here:
Power Systems
"Gas guns can be converted to HPA, and this is a good way to achieve excellent consistency with a gas powered sniper rifle...
...Although expensive (a Polar Star gearbox alone is $500, not including an air tank or regulator line), it is a proven superior system to all others."
Bore Tightness + Range and Accuracy
"Best Long Range barrel: PDI 6.05 or Orga 6.23 if enough air can be supplied."
But you go a long way apart from the 6.05 to the 6.23, is it because the LENGTH for the .23 is usually so short in order to compensate for bigger volume?
They sell this wide bore barrel "for" VSR and L96:
Orga Magnus 6.23mm Wide Bore Barrel for VSR & L96 (200mm) ---------notice the 200mm instead of the usual 450/500mm used for the l96 for example.
Would this be a good option for an l96?
Is the .05 option present for lengths of around 500mm for SPRING powered rifles?
Sounds like the best choice would be a 500mm .23 with HPA strong enough that compensates for the length/volume part, but, is that possible? wouldnt that break the internals? if not, which are we looking at for that? ---sorry ive mainly done research for spring powered rifles, mainly the VSR and the L96, i dont know much about GAS rifles, maybe these dont suffer from the stress the spring ones do?---
IF not, should going 200mm for an l96 SPRING rifle be a better option?
Up until now i used to think the SPRING rifles were kings in regards of the accuracy+distance equation, is that no longer true? is it because of the stronger spring will break the internals and we dont have developed the correct internals yet?
Sorry, im new and trying to figure all this out, been reading a ton and the more i read the more i learn but the more confused i am liable to get too xD.
So the "absolute best" (i know, i know this is a very relative term), in the sense of what we should strive for as sniper rifles would be something like what you say here:
Power Systems
"Gas guns can be converted to HPA, and this is a good way to achieve excellent consistency with a gas powered sniper rifle...
...Although expensive (a Polar Star gearbox alone is $500, not including an air tank or regulator line), it is a proven superior system to all others."
Bore Tightness + Range and Accuracy
"Best Long Range barrel: PDI 6.05 or Orga 6.23 if enough air can be supplied."
But you go a long way apart from the 6.05 to the 6.23, is it because the LENGTH for the .23 is usually so short in order to compensate for bigger volume?
They sell this wide bore barrel "for" VSR and L96:
Orga Magnus 6.23mm Wide Bore Barrel for VSR & L96 (200mm) ---------notice the 200mm instead of the usual 450/500mm used for the l96 for example.
Would this be a good option for an l96?
Is the .05 option present for lengths of around 500mm for SPRING powered rifles?
Sounds like the best choice would be a 500mm .23 with HPA strong enough that compensates for the length/volume part, but, is that possible? wouldnt that break the internals? if not, which are we looking at for that? ---sorry ive mainly done research for spring powered rifles, mainly the VSR and the L96, i dont know much about GAS rifles, maybe these dont suffer from the stress the spring ones do?---
IF not, should going 200mm for an l96 SPRING rifle be a better option?
Up until now i used to think the SPRING rifles were kings in regards of the accuracy+distance equation, is that no longer true? is it because of the stronger spring will break the internals and we dont have developed the correct internals yet?
Sorry, im new and trying to figure all this out, been reading a ton and the more i read the more i learn but the more confused i am liable to get too xD.
this video has good info on the orga barrel and fun to watch the gun in action.
Airsoft - PolarStar PR-15 Internal Upgrade: R-Hop & Orga Barrel (SC Village Gameplay/Commentary) - YouTube
Airsoft - PolarStar PR-15 Internal Upgrade: R-Hop & Orga Barrel (SC Village Gameplay/Commentary) - YouTube
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You are right, a properly tuned spring powered BASR is one of the most CONSISTENT weapons available. But with a good regulator on a HPA or PolarStar system, they can blow away even the best spring due to sheer amount of adjustable volume being pushed behind the bb. Spring rifles are stuck with a maximum amount of volume, which is one of their only limiting factors.
If I'm not mistaken, the length of the ORGA barrels is so much shorter because of the phenomenon of "power creep." With such large volumes of air being used, the longer the barrel the higher the joule rating. With a 200mm barrel, this isn't noticed as much, and you can use a higher volume of air to achieve that "air cushion" effect. But when you use the same volume of air in a 500mm barrel, it has an extra 2.5x the distance to be propelled. Kind of like a real steel rifle, this provides the system more time to "burn all the powder," or propel the bb. This in turn significantly raises the joule output of your gun, while potentially(but not always) leaving your fps barely affected. We are comparing punching through leafy cover to shattering small diameter branches. This is why some fields refuse to allow HPA systems with very long barrels, or completely ban HPA altogether.
However, a trend is beginning towards shorter barrel lengths. Apparently they utilize the hop-up more effectively, but I don't want to start a fight over that. I know less about that than I do about P*, so I'll leave that to someone else to explain.
Care to explain?
Last I checked, Joules are units of energy... Kinetic energy is given by the simple equation 1/2mv^2.
We are not altering the bb's mass just by changing barrels. If we aren't altering velocity... well then it is mathematically impossible for the energy to increase.
I can't see how this is "dangerous ground"...
You should try to forget about actually using .20 bb's for field chronoing, as no one are using them in game.
Instead you should be measuring the fps(And Joule), with the bb's you are using, that way theres no joule creep you have to account for.
And IF people lie about there bb weight, then they are cheating, and should be banned from the field.
Also if you think they are lying, force them to chrono with some heavy bb's or just weigh the bb's.
Whats dangerous about it, is not letting people know about it, so they can prevent it. As theres people out there doing it already.
@StealthFundip Are you talking about P* users changing barrels after they are chronoed? or did you mean just plain old joule creep, with extreme pressure(volume ratio) with a very shot barrel and chronoing with .20?
You should try to forget about actually using .20 bb's for field chronoing, as no one are using them in game.
Instead you should be measuring the fps(And Joule), with the bb's you are using, that way theres no joule creep you have to account for.
And IF people lie about there bb weight, then they are cheating, and should be banned from the field.
Also if you think they are lying, force them to chrono with some heavy bb's or just weigh the bb's.
Whats dangerous about it, is not letting people know about it, so they can prevent it. As theres people out there doing it already.
@StealthFundip Are you talking about P* users changing barrels after they are chronoed? or did you mean just plain old joule creep, with extreme pressure(volume ratio) with a very shot barrel and chronoing with .20?
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It is dangerous because a lot of clubs insist on chronoing with 0.2gm bb's (your club may not but others do) and then let people use whatever bb weight after that. This means people can get around the safety measures put in place.
I once made a rifle fire 550fps but the energy behind the bb was a lot more than just a 550fps. (It was ridiculous). I never gamed it though as it would have put a hole in someone.
Talking about this just helps people to learn more about JC and want to experiment with it.
I once made a rifle fire 550fps but the energy behind the bb was a lot more than just a 550fps. (It was ridiculous). I never gamed it though as it would have put a hole in someone.
Talking about this just helps people to learn more about JC and want to experiment with it.
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Does the power creep happens EVEN with a wide barrel?
I thought having a wide barrel (.23) would lessen the power by investing the energy in stabilizing the BB to a grater degree thus not needing more FPS but obtaining more range and accuracy... no?
This seems to range in the debate about freedom of information vs security -_-, ive seen many people get carried away by that, if only we could focus on the science, oh well.
I thought having a wide barrel (.23) would lessen the power by investing the energy in stabilizing the BB to a grater degree thus not needing more FPS but obtaining more range and accuracy... no?
This seems to range in the debate about freedom of information vs security -_-, ive seen many people get carried away by that, if only we could focus on the science, oh well.
And why would they ever change that, if they don't know about JC?
Or is there another reason, that they want to hold on to the old ways?
@Cuervo The idea of a bb floating nicely in the center of the barrel, on a cushion of air, is just a theory, so remember that.
No one has to this date, proven the theory(As far as I'm aware).
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Maybe this helps:
Joule creep testing results - various guns and BBs : airsoft
and, following this:
i think we can go back to the barrel issue, but it pops up a question for me:
(please excuse me if this is basic or already covered, if it is i apologize)Seems like there should be a sweet spot between range+stability and barrel length, defining length as the minimum distance it takes the BB to get to a high enough speed YET be able to be stabilized by the hop up and the barrel (like in a TDC mod)
something like:
|-----------------------TOTAL BARREL LENGTH----------------------------------------------|
|---------length for BB speed to build up------------||---length for BB to be stabilized---|
Do we have those numbers somewhere? am i in the correct track? I dont care about FPS, all this should have the aim of providing the most range AS LONG as the accuracy remains acceptable for a sniper rifle.
Of course this should depend on volume and bb weight.
Joule creep testing results - various guns and BBs : airsoft
and, following this:
i think we can go back to the barrel issue, but it pops up a question for me:
(please excuse me if this is basic or already covered, if it is i apologize)Seems like there should be a sweet spot between range+stability and barrel length, defining length as the minimum distance it takes the BB to get to a high enough speed YET be able to be stabilized by the hop up and the barrel (like in a TDC mod)
something like:
|-----------------------TOTAL BARREL LENGTH----------------------------------------------|
|---------length for BB speed to build up------------||---length for BB to be stabilized---|
Do we have those numbers somewhere? am i in the correct track? I dont care about FPS, all this should have the aim of providing the most range AS LONG as the accuracy remains acceptable for a sniper rifle.
Of course this should depend on volume and bb weight.
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I agree. Lack of knowledge is dangerous but it would be better to go directly to the people who run the clubs to tell them instead of telling everyone how to JC before the clubs have change their rules.
I know by reading other threads on here that some clubs are just stuck in their ways (for one reason or another) and so it is best to not speak of it JC until people who run the clubs have better understanding and change the rules.
That is my thoughts anyway. If you wish to carry on talking about it, then feel free.
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I think everyone interested in the matter will find it even if we dont talk about it, i didnt knew about it and i just started reading about all this a couple of weeks ago, i decided to create an account here even in less time, i see why you are worried, i just read the thread by Lirimacora made last year and i see the dangers, reading about this made me realize not only to not care about FPS but to pay close attention to the joules/weight issue, in that same manner we have a rule here about not discussing over 550 fps, shouldnt that be changed to joules too like we wish airsoft camps did?
Anyway, i believe the more we know about something the better we can be cautious about, if i didnt knew about this i wouldve gone with the first idea i had and probable hurt someone, specially since where i live there are no "official clubs" who SET particular rules or limits, those are "somewhat" set in the moment by the teams playing and asking around they tell me its the same innefective thinking of 400/450 fps with .2 grams but if someone wishes to bring more power they can... which, reading about this, is dangerous... so please dont regard education to be censored so easily... ill try to help my local clubs about this issue in the future.
I would still like to find out about the question i did in my previous post tho...
ALL within acceptable joules/.40~ limits of course.
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