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Lessons learned from upgrading a Tac 41

6520 Views 50 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  TannerGil
Hey Folks,

So I got a Silverback Tac 41 a few months ago and was impressed with the out of box performance (except the spring power but I expected that). After doing some research, I determined that the best options for upgrades were either to buy the Silverback upgrade parts or purchase the Stalker upgrade parts.

I decided to go with the SB parts after some persuasion. The Stalker parts are quite expensive and the Tac was shooting consistently around 250 Ft (75M) with a M150 and AEG hop unit.

I purchased:

Silverback Advanced Piston Head
Silverback GBB Hop Unit
Silverback GBB Cylinder Head
Angel Customs 6.01mm 420mm barrel
Silverback Triangular Outer Barrel 420mm
Silverback Carbon Fiber Suppressor Short
Silverback Advanced Hop up Wheel
Novritsch Spring Shims
Novritsch 3-9 scope

The angel customs barrel was lapped/polished and R-hoped by our good friend SiliconeSword. The original plan was for him to install one of his SS-Nubs into the Hop unit with a lapped barrel and R-hop patch.

After the work had been done he sent the barrel/chamber back, and boy was the lapping and work he did super impressive. Unfortunately there was no hop being applied to the bb...UH OH.

Lesson One: The SB Hop chamber really only works with open barrels without a bridge. This is something I likely should have figured out quicker since the barrels that SB sells for the GBB chamber are bridgeless. After figuring that out I had to take apart the work he did and remove the R-Hop patch. Then I began the process of removing the bridge with a file.
Wood Flooring Gas Writing implement Hardwood

Writing implement Pen Office supplies Wood Office instrument


Luckily I had an extra Maple Leaf Autobot 60 degree sitting around. I put it on and tried to carefully install into the unit.

Lesson Two: You must be very careful installing the bucking into the GBB unit. The GBB unit goes together very differently than the AEG Chamber and has a metal sleeve that goes over the bucking. If you do not lube it well with something that will not impact function, it could rip the bucking.

Also DO NOT try to insert the bucking into the sleeve as in the picture below. You should slide the sleeve in from the muzzle and let it slide up the barrel and over the bucking. I tried to force it the other way and ripped my bucking.... 馃挬

I ended up having to order a Maple Leaf Autobot Silicone 70 degree and also ordered the Silverback Advanced Hop wheel because the plastic nub that comes with the SB hop units is a little lack luster.

After receiving the wheel/nub and the bucking I installed everything without ripping the bucking (Yay!). Unfortunately I was still not getting hop applied... I was very frustrated.

Lesson Three: Just because its made by Silverback, doesn't mean its going to be as good quality as it is expected to be. After a lot of trial and error I finally determined that the ramp under all the wheels was not contacting the Nub. It was as if the GBB unit was too tall with where the wheel attached, or the nubs were too short for the unit.
Office equipment Audio equipment Electric blue Office supplies Gadget


After figuring out the issue, I came up with the idea to add material to the top of the nub. I actually used the laminated paper backing in the packaging for a bucking. I added two layers using super glue and finally had success with what I expected for this hop up.

Insect Electric blue Pest Parasite Fashion accessory


Here is a video of the results : Silverback Tac 41 shooting 200 and 275 feet

In summary, I am very pleased with where my rifle performance currently is but am kinda bummed by some of the quality control of the Silverback parts. At this point, I kind of wish I had just gone with Stalker parts off the bat and had my barrel lapped as well. I will be opening a support ticket with Silverback about the nub but am glad to have a solution for it in the meantime.

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Anyway thanks for reading my long winded post. Let me know if you have any questions on it.
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Related towards upgrade the TAC 41P, the spring guide, is the spring supposed to be loose around it or pretty snug. For example, the WASP piston spring guide makes taking the spring off near impossible, or at least exceedingly difficult. But the stock spring guide is exceptionally loose. So just curious if it makes a different or not?
Don't own a TAC 41 yet, but usually anything exceedingly tight is usually not good.
Man, sorry to hear about your tribulations! Been there myself a couple of times and it really takes the jam out of your donut 馃崺.....hopefully you can settle back and enjoy the darn thing.

Note on barrels - I am now Edgi for life. Sure, they are initially expensive but avoiding any further steps makes it a good investment for me, as my track record in tech work isn鈥檛 stellar.
I'd only buy EdGi if I wanted a 5.98, which it seems ESW works now makes for half as much, which I plan to pick up soonish.
If you can, I suggest getting a Lambda, DaVinci, or PDI and have that lapped as it'll be as good as an EdGi, but those barrels are all dead straight and the bore is perfectly centered as they're forged over a mandrel like with good rifle barrels and hydraulic cylinders.
I'd do whatever is cheaper though, as a lapped PDI will probably be more expensive unless you get a deal on one or something.
EdGi is still the best you can buy though, I'll give them that.
This is one of the reasons I do not use Facebook. Too many different "groups" to get answers out of. Hell I still have some posts that have yet to be approved and those are going on almost a month.
Yeah it def gets ridiculous and honestly theres so much information its hard to determine what is valuable and usable or not.
Man, sorry to hear about your tribulations! Been there myself a couple of times and it really takes the jam out of your donut 馃崺.....hopefully you can settle back and enjoy the darn thing.

Note on barrels - I am now Edgi for life. Sure, they are initially expensive but avoiding any further steps makes it a good investment for me, as my track record in tech work isn鈥檛 stellar.
Yeah if I hadn't had SS lap a barrel for me I would have gotten an EDGI. My Tac is in a good place now and is able to reach out to 275 precisely on 2.5J.
I'd only buy EdGi if I wanted a 5.98, which it seems ESW works now makes for half as much, which I plan to pick up soonish.
If you can, I suggest getting a Lambda, DaVinci, or PDI and have that lapped as it'll be as good as an EdGi, but those barrels are all dead straight and the bore is perfectly centered as they're forged over a mandrel like with good rifle barrels and hydraulic cylinders.
I'd do whatever is cheaper though, as a lapped PDI will probably be more expensive unless you get a deal on one or something.
EdGi is still the best you can buy though, I'll give them that.
ESW works? Interesting, not heard of those chaps. Will give them a look.

Rapid stealth edit: Looks really good and as you say, they are also cheaper.
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Yes, I'm looking to pick up 2 of the 550s and a 300mm for my guns once I've got $230 to spend on barrels.
I have more pressing matters right now, and my guns are game worthy so I don't need them immediately.
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Aye, sensible. If, however, they make an AEG barrel I'm having one for a new project :cool:
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I believe they may, but the barrels may also be dual cut.

I actually spent a year trying to source decent stainless to make a 5.97-5.98 barrel, but for less than $5000 I wasn't able to to find anybody, even the Chinese who would make it for me. At that time I didn't even own a car, so that would have been a very irresponsible business venture. In my experience with selling my fat barrels, it's super hard to sell even 10, let alone $5000 worth of material in barrels.
Glad to see somebody step up other than EdGi though, I look forward to giving them my business.
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Tough market to break into, without a doubt! I am tempted to grab one immediately they appear but I shall show some restraint and employ some patience...in either case I am eager to see what they roll out.
Well from my experience with barrel lapping, a black bore is a welcome sight.
This is because all the microscopic scratches are pointed in one direction, or are so fine that light still doesn't reflect off of them.
This means that those barrels were likely push lapped, not twist lapped, and means that they should have a more consistent bore diameter.
You really don't see a black bore until 10 micron diamond paste, and you usually don't see a bore like that until 7 micron, which is what EdGi uses.
I'm incredibly excited for these to come out as it'll be the next big step for my DMR, next sniper, and MK23/future homemade pistol, as I will be able to save a bunch of air based on my calculations.

For more examples of a legit bore, here's some of my stuff.
Gesture Wood Finger Gas Cooking

Textile Sleeve Silver Grey Collar
Table Wood Rectangle Floor Flooring

Gas Nickel Household hardware Cylinder Metal

Human body Gesture Wood Finger Art

Wood Water Flash photography Fence Metal
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Well from my experience with barrel lapping, a black bore is a welcome sight.
This is because all the microscopic scratches are pointed in one direction, or are so fine that light still doesn't reflect off of them.
This means that those barrels were likely push lapped, not twist lapped, and means that they should have a more consistent bore diameter.
You really don't see a black bore until 10 micron diamond paste, and you usually don't see a bore like that until 7 micron, which is what EdGi uses.
I'm incredibly excited for these to come out as it'll be the next big step for my DMR, next sniper, and MK23/future homemade pistol, as I will be able to save a bunch of air based on my calculations.

For more examples of a legit bore, here's some of my stuff.
View attachment 21248
View attachment 21247 View attachment 21245
View attachment 21246
View attachment 21244
View attachment 21243 View attachment 21249
Custom mk23 you say? Lmk how that goes. Ive been wanting to pair a mk 23 with my TAC to try and quiet things up a bit.
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I'm looking to replace my MK23, as hours before I left for a game I dropped it on my floor and killed a magazine and the frame.
Mags are like 30 bucks minimum, and the frame is 24, so now I have to get some those.
Overall the pistol shoots better than any other pistol or AEG I've used as the hop is very consistent even with .28g BBs, but the hop chamber is really weak, the outer barrel is heavy and the hole was off center 1mm when I bought it, the frame is hella weak as I've now discovered, the trigger sucks, mags are heavy, expensive, and weak, the grip is pretty fat, the slide is pretty fat, the TDC system can be moved by hand and shifted significantly, and in general the gun is pretty wack. It's still probably the best pistol out there judging by the maybe 20 others I've owned or tried at a field and opinions online, but it's still a bad gun if you don't mention how it shoots.
This just shows how shitty and weak these things are compared to real firearms.
I'd trust throwing my Glock out of a window onto concrete if I didn't car about wrecking the finish or maybe damaging a sight, but a 2 foot drop leading to a huge failure is just ridiculous.
If HiPoint can make a HiPoint for $175, why can't an airsoft company make something at least half that for about the same price.

As for magazines, this applies to about every gas gun.
They're expensive, don't hold many shots, are weak, HEAVY AS BALLS, and just generally suck. I get it that there's pRoFiT mArGiNs, but companies could at least have the decency to make you not hate them for a $100 GBBR mag. Look at Magpul, you can get a Pmag for $8 that's tougher than the most expensive airsoft magazine I'd bet.
We're at least seeing the weight thing improve with the now rather aged ProWin and Guarder mags, the plastic WE Galaxy (metal AAP01) and the new Maxim 9 from Evike/Krytac, but this really needs to be more common, and for more reasonable prices as I'd see myself running $300 in pistol mags if I could have as many as I wanted.

My goal is to make, yes MAKE, a non blowback pistol with this list of improvements.

Even better accuracy

Cheap simple aluminum mags

More solid hop/barrel setup

No dumbass 16X1cw thread

Reasonable grip, we're not holding double stack .45ACP

Slim slide

Longer slide

Longer inner barrel

Less shitty trigger (maybe lighter, definitely shorter)

More power

Quieter

No stupid buttons or safety

WAY stronger

Simpler

Easier to maintain


I'm in the process of learning CAD so this is likely going to be a rather long term project, but I feel that a MK23 replacement is long overdue, and I am really damn sick of shitty, weak, expensive, heavy magazines, and the god awful trigger in my MK23.
Not to mention that it mercd itself like a little bitch from 2 feet onto a carpet.
I'd like to mention that a requirement from the Austrian military for the G17 was a drop out of a helicopter onto concrete from like 100 feet and still be able to fire, which is a hell of a lot better than anything airsoft has to offer.
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I'm looking to replace my MK23, as hours before I left for a game I dropped it on my floor and killed a magazine and the frame.
Mags are like 30 bucks minimum, and the frame is 24, so now I have to get some those.
Overall the pistol shoots better than any other pistol or AEG I've used as the hop is very consistent even with .28g BBs, but the hop chamber is really weak, the outer barrel is heavy and the hole was off center 1mm when I bought it, the frame is hella weak as I've now discovered, the trigger sucks, mags are heavy, expensive, and weak, the grip is pretty fat, the slide is pretty fat, the TDC system can be moved by hand and shifted significantly, and in general the gun is pretty wack. It's still probably the best pistol out there judging by the maybe 20 others I've owned or tried at a field and opinions online, but it's still a bad gun if you don't mention how it shoots.
This just shows how shitty and weak these things are compared to real firearms.
I'd trust throwing my Glock out of a window onto concrete if I didn't car about wrecking the finish or maybe damaging a sight, but a 2 foot drop leading to a huge failure is just ridiculous.
If HiPoint can make a HiPoint for $175, why can't an airsoft company make something at least half that for about the same price.

As for magazines, this applies to about every gas gun.
They're expensive, don't hold many shots, are weak, HEAVY AS BALLS, and just generally suck. I get it that there's pRoFiT mArGiNs, but companies could at least have the decency to make you not hate them for a $100 GBBR mag. Look at Magpul, you can get a Pmag for $8 that's tougher than the most expensive airsoft magazine I'd bet.
We're at least seeing the weight thing improve with the now rather aged ProWin and Guarder mags, the plastic WE Galaxy (metal AAP01) and the new Maxim 9 from Evike/Krytac, but this really needs to be more common, and for more reasonable prices as I'd see myself running $300 in pistol mags if I could have as many as I wanted.

My goal is to make, yes MAKE, a non blowback pistol with this list of improvements.

Even better accuracy

Cheap simple aluminum mags

More solid hop/barrel setup

No dumbass 16X1cw thread

Reasonable grip, we're not holding double stack .45ACP

Slim slide

Longer slide

Longer inner barrel

Less shitty trigger (maybe lighter, definitely shorter)

More power

Quieter

No stupid buttons or safety

WAY stronger

Simpler

Easier to maintain


I'm in the process of learning CAD so this is likely going to be a rather long term project, but I feel that a MK23 replacement is long overdue, and I am really damn sick of shitty, weak, expensive, heavy magazines, and the god awful trigger in my MK23.
Not to mention that it mercd itself like a little bitch from 2 feet onto a carpet.
I'd like to mention that a requirement from the Austrian military for the G17 was a drop out of a helicopter onto concrete from like 100 feet and still be able to fire, which is a hell of a lot better than anything airsoft has to offer.
Yeah I agree on all fronts. It's amazing how expensive this stuff can be yet even high end airsoft guns are more fragile than very cheap real guns. I get that they are more complicated internally but the gap between durability and quality is pretty vast.

I've been able to try out the NOV ssx 23. It's a decent airsoft gun but everything you described applies to it as well.

Heck even my tac has had some seriously weird quality issues by the company that makes it even though they are considered one of the best OOTB sniper companies in airsoft.

I will say that my MTWs body feels about as durable as a low end AR15.
Don't own a TAC 41 yet, but usually anything exceedingly tight is usually not good.
Got it. That makes sense, I already swapped back to the stock spring guide. it's a lot narrower than the spring guide that came with the WASP, which was a bit surprising. I figured the spring guides would have been the same diameter, or close to, but I guess not.
Got it. That makes sense, I already swapped back to the stock spring guide. it's a lot narrower than the spring guide that came with the WASP, which was a bit surprising. I figured the spring guides would have been the same diameter, or close to, but I guess not.
A thicker spring guide helps lead to a quieter action. Often, the spring rattling around on the spring guide and cylinder can make a twanging metal sound and a thicker spring guide helps reduce that.

I haven't found it to be an issue on mine.
Well the MTW IS a low end AR-15 upper receiver, and a modified AR-15 lower receiver, with some cheap ass AliExpress handguard and some lame furniture, with a mediocre engine and shitty electronics.

I've wanted an MTW/the unreleased PR-15 Gen2, but the engine and cost and the availability were definitely holding me back.
I ended up with a CYMA M4 that I probably Polarstared after it promptly was busted and it's been pretty good for the past 3 years, but my plan had always been to sell the body and put the engine in a new body.

The new body, which I have, is an
Anderson 80% lower
Anderson slick side upper
Trybe Defense Magnite 15 inch handguard
Strike Industries mag catch
Polarstar UGS
Homemade trigger unit
Polarstar F2

The outer barrel proved to be difficult so I'm trading a friend of mine for an 18 inch MTW barrel, and I haven't done hop chamber yet as I'm waiting on the barrel as you can't do one without the other.
All in all, it's a super easy build, almost like building an AR lmao, but it's just been slow going for a number of reasons.

As for the hop chamber, I will make one that takes AEG buckings, but I will model one off of my VSR-SS chamber that just used an O-ring and an R-hop. I see there being much promise in that, as if I had not used a 2 piece inner barrel for that gun accuracy would have been much better.

As for the trigger, I machined a block of ABS from making my VSR-SS to fit a heavily cut down trigger board, and made a very nice aluminum blade trigger that sure as hell didn't cost $40 from MAXX Model.
I've "tuned" it to mimic full auto very effectively while still in semi as I can't be bothered to figure out the selector situation, and I enjoy very short and sharp triggers.
It will most definitely be better than the best MTW out there, maybe better than the PR-15 Gen2, and a hell of a lot cheaper than both if the engine is bought used.

Eventually I plan on buying the Sparklabs Wolf engine to hopefully double my shot count, and on top of that I plan on getting an ESCW 5.98 barrel to top it off.
In the end it should be the most efficient most accurate semi auto gun out there, not to mention light weight with some titanium tanks I will be making myself, but we'll see.
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Well the MTW IS a low end AR-15 upper receiver, and a modified AR-15 lower receiver, with some cheap ass AliExpress handguard and some lame furniture, with a mediocre engine and shitty electronics.

I've wanted an MTW/the unreleased PR-15 Gen2, but the engine and cost and the availability were definitely holding me back.
I ended up with a CYMA M4 that I probably Polarstared after it promptly was busted and it's been pretty good for the past 3 years, but my plan had always been to sell the body and put the engine in a new body.

The new body, which I have, is an
Anderson 80% lower
Anderson slick side upper
Trybe Defense Magnite 15 inch handguard
Strike Industries mag catch
Polarstar UGS
Homemade trigger unit
Polarstar F2

The outer barrel proved to be difficult so I'm trading a friend of mine for an 18 inch MTW barrel, and I haven't done hop chamber yet as I'm waiting on the barrel as you can't do one without the other.
All in all, it's a super easy build, almost like building an AR lmao, but it's just been slow going for a number of reasons.

As for the hop chamber, I will make one that takes AEG buckings, but I will model one off of my VSR-SS chamber that just used an O-ring and an R-hop. I see there being much promise in that, as if I had not used a 2 piece inner barrel for that gun accuracy would have been much better.

As for the trigger, I machined a block of ABS from making my VSR-SS to fit a heavily cut down trigger board, and made a very nice aluminum blade trigger that sure as hell didn't cost $40 from MAXX Model.
I've "tuned" it to mimic full auto very effectively while still in semi as I can't be bothered to figure out the selector situation, and I enjoy very short and sharp triggers.
It will most definitely be better than the best MTW out there, maybe better than the PR-15 Gen2, and a hell of a lot cheaper than both if the engine is bought used.

Eventually I plan on buying the Sparklabs Wolf engine to hopefully double my shot count, and on top of that I plan on getting an ESCW 5.98 barrel to top it off.
In the end it should be the most efficient most accurate semi auto gun out there, not to mention light weight with some titanium tanks I will be making myself, but we'll see.
Yeah that sounds like a really cool plan.

So far I have been very pleased with my MTW. I have had to wrestle with it much less than my Tac 41. Both are great guns imo.
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A thicker spring guide helps lead to a quieter action. Often, the spring rattling around on the spring guide and cylinder can make a twanging metal sound and a thicker spring guide helps reduce that.

I haven't found it to be an issue on mine.
I can see that but the problem I had with the WASP was that I had to really twist and pull to get the spring both on and off the spring guide. To get the stock spring off the wasp I evem had to put a flat head screwdriver at the base between the spring to help pry it up. It just seemed excessively stuck on. I don't know if that impacted the springs functioning while it was installed though...
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