[TheHunter]

So I drilled four holes near the end of my barrel and put screws in to adjust the bend of the inner barrel.(cheese man's idea). I would adjust the barrel down and it would make it shoot down, I would adjust the barrel to bend up and it the bb would go up at about 175-200 feet and then back down at about 220(it didn't really give me any more range).

So no matter what way I would bend the barrel it gave me no additional range. My accuracy did slightly improve when it was bent down. So what's going on? I thought the LRB is suppose to give you more range?:shrug:

 

[Masterjuggler98]

You are supposed to bend the barrel down to make the bb ride the top and stabilize the backspin. If you bend it up it will just slow down the backspin and negate the hop effect.

You only need to bend it down 2 or 3 millimeters from center to get it working right. Also make sure you have a barrel spacer at the rear third of your barrel so the barrel bends, not just points down. You have to make absolutely sure the barrel spacer doesn't give the barrel any room to move up or down. I know some barrel spacers have the o-rings inside meant to absorb the vibrations, but you need those hard plastic stock spacers that hold it steady.

 

[TheHunter]

Well when I bent it down it would almost negate the hop up eff.
And I have a berrel spacer made of paper at the back of the barrel. It is really tightly wrapped so I doubt it is moving.

 

[Masterjuggler98]

If it almost negated the hop effect then you did something wrong. Like I said, you only need to bend it down 2 or 3 millimeters from center to get the LRB working. Use a ruler to measure it, don't just estimate. I've seen some people think they estimated short distances well and found out they were wildly off.

The paper, while good, can still squish a little. That's how people can shade over a piece of paper with the side of a pencil tip and find what someone wrote previously. This doesn't mean this is what your problem is, because it should be fine, I'm just saying it isn't as solid as other plastic spacers can be.

Just remember to have at least the front two thirds of your barrel able to bend. You want the bend to be gradual, not immediate. If you only have a short length bent, it might just make the bb bounce instead of ride the top.

Also just to clarify, it doesn't always have to give you more "range". It might just give you more consistent and accurate shots. You also need to have the hopup tuned to it.

 

[vindicareassassin]

Also just to clarify, it doesn't always have to give you more "range". It might just give you more consistent and accurate shots. You also need to have the hopup tuned to it.

^^^Very much this^^^ :shot:

If you are using a gun that is putting out more than 450fps its unlikely you will notice any range increase, past that it will litteraly be an increase in shot to shot stability given to the BB

The LRB concept was, after all, designed to increase the range of guns doing sub 300 fps, back in the days when 300fps was ''high powered'' and .2 BBs were heavy weight, and, and also before what is now deemed the conventional nub styled rubber and hop arm were invented by TM in all their wisdom. :cheers:

What Mr juggler failed to mention is that the curve should be also tuned to the fps AND the BB you are using, if you dont the results will be satisfactory at best.....

The results you are seeing is from 'over bend' in the LRB, and as masterjuggler correctly states, you should be measuring this, not guessing. :yup:

Its also worth bearing in mind that a high fps rifle with a long barrel will require less of a bend than a shorter barreled rifle firing at lower fps, so if your using a 500+fps rifle with a 600+mm barrel I'd start with a 1mm bend and work from there...... I know for a fact a 425fps rifle with a 310mm barrel only needs 2.5mm bend to make it work......

......And all this assumes a standard nub style hop, add in a long hop of some description and all the perametres change :doh:

 

[TheHunter]

Alright, I was just estimating. I will measure next time. I will report back if measuring it doesn't work.
Thanks for the help!

 

[Cheese Man]

Vindi and Juggler have got it just right. You need to tune the bend angle and distance to your particular setup, I just say 2-3mm as a standard (works with more than half of the setups I see).

It was never designed to give you greater range (though that is a by-product of greater accuracy), only to stabilize the spin of your shots.

 

[TheHunter]

I just did some more testing and figured out the LRB does nothing. I probably have the most inaccurate gun out there

 

[Masterjuggler98]

I just did some more testing and figured out the LRB does nothing. I probably have the most inaccurate gun out there

No, I'm sorry, that's just not possible. The LRB stabilizes the bb whether you notice it or not. You must not have tuned it correctly, because even Cheese, with his insanely high standards, uses an LRB in almost everything. If it didn't do anything he wouldn't use it.

 

[TheHunter]

Well I adjusted it from .5 millimeters to 4 and didn't ever notice a difference in the bb.
I will try testing one more time. And should you sand the r-hop patch down enough to were when the screw it completely loose the bb doesn't curve up at all?

 

[Masterjuggler98]

It shouldn't be curving up, rather going in a straight line. I like to sand it so it is flush with the barrel, just because sometimes I like to experiment what would happen with no hop. What groupings are you getting at what range?

 

[TheHunter]

Well when you apply hop it should curve up a little so it can go farther? that's kinda how a real gun works.
And at about 200 feet I cant really even hit a man size torso.

 

[Masterjuggler98]

No, you want it going straight as an arrow. Some people have what's called a "slight over hop," which is when the bb stays straight except at the very end when it jumps a bit, then falls down. I've never been able to do this though.

If you can't hit a torso at 200 feet you did something wrong. Not with the LRB, but with the r-hop. Even with a normal bucking I can hit out to at least 250ft. With the r-hop I get close to 300ft. The LRB when I get around to doing it will just give me tighter groupings for a slightly longer effective range, but it won't make my bb go any farther. Try it with your normal bucking and compare LRB to no LRB.

Are You using a stock barrel? If you are I suggest you use brasso or some other abrasive polishing compound to polish the inner barrel. There is probably some crud in there that won't come out with a normal water/alcohol cleaning.

By the way, that is not how a real gun works. They are made to shoot straight, that's why they have the side spin; to keep it stable. Real steel shooters have to aim higher because the bullet does drop, but that's because of gravity. Other than gravity there is nothing to make the bullet curve up or down at all. You want to keep the bb as level as possible, or at least that's the best solution I and others have found.

 

[Cheese Man]

I find it hard to believe that it didn't do anything. Even with a crappy barrel that hadn't been cleaned, and no screws, just a bunch of tape, the LRB worked the first time I tried it. No significant increase in range, but it did tighten up my groupings by quite a bit. Then, refining it made it way better and more noticeable, but still...

 

[TheHunter]

I didn't mean the bullet curves up but it shoots higher. If you aim right on the bulls eye then it will shoot an inch high at 100 yards so at 200 it will hit bulls eye. So you want the bb to do something similar.
But even with no hop, (and I know the r-hop isn't touching the bb because when i look into the barrel the patch is above the inside rim of the barrel), it is still curving up then falling down. And this is with out the LRB.
So I don't know what is making the bb curve up.

 

[Cheese Man]

That doesn't sound like an LRB issue. That sounds like an R-hop issue. Have you cleaned your barrel? Have you made sure there is no CA protruding into the inside of the barrel?

If it still doesn't work, I would suggest starting over. Heaven knows it's easy enough to install...

 

[Masterjuggler98]

When you look into the barrel to see the patch you are looking at it outside the rest of the gun, right? When you put it in the rifle the soft nub, assuming you are using one, on the hop arm is probably pressing down on the bucking a little bit whether you have the hop on or off.

Like I said before, try using a normal bucking without the r-hop patch and compare LRB to no LRB. If you still don't see any difference you should get your eyes checked.

 

[TheHunter]

Yeah I think master juggler is right. The nub needs to be sanded down more. And I will see what the LRB does with no hop.

Edit:
So I shot it with out the patch so there was nop hop and the LRB did nothing. Should I be shooting at a target to see the grouping? Because im shooting out at a distance and watching the pattern of the bb.....Im shooting at a wall from about 150 feet away with no hop and it is barely making it. I apply the LRB and it still barely makes it and the pattern of the bb is still not very consistent. I'm about to give up on it and unless somebody can show me results using it then I don't think it does anything.

 

[Cheese Man]

The LRB doesn't do anything if you haven't applied hopup - that might be why you can't see any effect.

Also, you do need to shoot at a target to see grouping sizes, you can't just eyeball it. You should also be bench testing - with a rifle sandbagged and leveled, or at least in prone - for all we know you're just a bad shot.

 

[TheHunter]

Ok well master juggler said to try with out hop up.....so I was using LRB with hop up and the only notice I saw is that the bb was flatter, not more accurate but flatter. It didn't Curve up as much.
And Im just watching the bb pattern, so it doesn't really matter how good of a shot I am, even though I have been shooting guns since I was about 7.
And the bb pattern is all over the place. I'm just trying to get the bb to fly straight right now, with out shooting way off to the left or right.