[woogie]

Ok guys well time for some playing and testing.

I know there has been a few guys that have been able to either take an LRB or take a normal VSR barrel and make an LRB. So what I was wondering is if you guys have any info on these.

I have a feeling that Wonko may have a bit of info and would love the advice.

I have a spare Bar10 that I would love to play with and see if I can't get an LRB effect. Would love to see if I cant get as consistent hop on a .43 bb as I would with a .20 bb at the same range.

I do plan on using my upgraded kit from my g-spec to power the rifle, which is at around 500 fps or so. Will get more info as time goes.

So any and all info would be great. I use to go to Classic Airsoft quite a bit, but after they changed there system, all that info was lost.

 

[mateba]

Its not lost. Check out for the thread about the old forum and view the link provided. Talk to Booster on the classic forum if you don;t mind sending your gun out and spending some money. IMO he is the best for LRB effects. Not sure if he can but you should ask.

 

[bonzo]

This is a recent LRB VSR:
http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/index.php?topic=86290.0

Basically a spacer in the middle of the barrel with a grub screw that forces down the inner barrel to create a slight curve. The VSR is a good candidate because the thick hop rubber allows the end of the barrel to move a bit. A tiny amount of hop will stop the BB rolling out. You would also need a flexible joint in the muzzle end such as an o-ring.

 

[woogie]

Yeah that is what I was thinking bonzo.

Thanks metaba. Will have to do that when I get home.

I do know that you wont get as much hop without the barrel moving back into the battery position. But hoping to get enough hop to throw a .43 bb out to the 300' mark with a 500 fps rifle each and everytime.

Then when I get that do a hop up mech that allows for side to side and tweak that till it is about as consistant as can be. Should be a fun project.

 

[silentfury214]

What is an lrb?

 

[woogie]

Stands for Long Range Barrel. They are used in classic airsoft rifles.

 

[silentfury214]

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH! Thanks!

 

[vindicareassassin]

I've read a bit about LRBs but is there any real advantage to them over a rubber/nub/pressure system, other than being more power efficient?

Or is this a 'cuz I can' project

EDIT

Ok, I read the link bonzo put up and I'm in

Any advantage I can gain on a 350 fps rifle/AEG makes me sit up and take notice, especialy if it means I can use .28s and still have the same range/accuracy

 

[woogie]

It is a little of both.

I have read that you can use the same power but apply more hop to a heavier bb. So will be able to get a .43 out to the same distance that I would be able to with a .2 with a ton of hop.

 

[Livonia]

From what I understand, they basically need to be made depending on what weight bb's you use, and the FPS of your gun. I also have heard they get excessively dirty quickly from the extra friction.

Very cool, but I'm skeptical about LRB's. I feel if they are that much better than the tradition hopup system, I would have had one long ago. I have a feeling the flight of the BB would be more unusual than a traditional too, more of a carried lob. I'm curious how they keep pressure on just the top of the BB, even if the barrel was concave it would have other friction points.

It reminds me of my old Tippman Flatline barrel, which was actually pretty inaccurate.

 

[vindicareassassin]

I'm curious how they keep pressure on just the top of the BB, even if the barrel was concave it would have other friction points.

I'd guess the principle is the same as the one I keep wittering on about, in don't be using your super mega tight bore as it causes more friction points, rather use a larger bore and the blow by air supports the BB in its path down the barrel.

I can see your point about build of debris but to my mind it should be no more than normal, as after all a normal BB spends most of its time traveling along the top of a conventionally mounted barrel due to the centrifugal forces imparted to it via the hop up system.......

Anyhoo, a good sniper cleans his barrel after every event so it shouldn't be an issue

 

[octoberknight]

And then again the barrel does not have a dramatic curve .25-.3 mm of bend max

 

[woogie]

Yeah it really isn't a super bend or anything like that. Just enough to add a consistant spin on the bb. With the larger diameter barrel I am guessing it will help keep the bb at the top of the barrel, while in use with the bucking like normal.

Just working on some of the how to things now, and on the computer. Not hoping for super rifle stuff here just a rifle that will give a very VERY consistant shot arc time after time. That and not wear out as fast as a normal bucking.

 

[octoberknight]

And the LRB can be very deadly if you exploit the way it arc's. My buddy Woodghost, he found exactly where his arcs and declines, there was almost nowhere we could hide short of locking ourselfs in a sealed off room. He would shoot so that the bb would arc over or around the wall, barrier, pillar pretty much anything we were hiding behind.

 

[wonkothesane]

From my knowledge of classics, and experience with a few 300' capable Asahi M60's, LRB's work only at getting the BB out to that range. The don't offer any accuracy. Although when you can spit 20 BB's a second, you don't exactly need pinpoint accuracy. LRB's work best with large diameter barrels 6.10+.

No hop up rifles offer the most accuracy, just very limited range.
Tradition Rubber gives the best range and accuracy combo.
LRB just gives a spread out at a 100 yards.

 

[octoberknight]

Yes but he was using an Asahi M16.

 

[vindicareassassin]

Like the guy in bonzos link said and as I've said here before anything past 50 yrds is in the lap of the gods as to what it does, so it stands to reason if you add range the effect will only increase.....

BUT.....

The idea is, from what I can fathom from the physics part of all this, that the LRB counters this by allowing you to use heavier ammo for a given power rate, this and this alone, gives you the increase in accuracy, its got nothing to do with the barrel itself giving you any accuracy.

I'm interested in this as I'm governed to the lowest power limits, short of living in Ireland or Japan, and anything I can do that helps me go through the rigmarole of setting up a gun for .28s, then have to crono it to find the hop has robbed 25fps, so then strip the GB fit a spacer to raise the fps, reassemble it, reset the hop for .28s, only to find the hop has robbed another 15fps..... and on and on..... has got to be a good thing.

If I can find something that if I say set the output to 350fps/.2s and still be able to push a .28 past where I can send a .25 on a more stable flight path because of extra weight of the ammo, and its reasonably easy to manufacture in my garage, despite the evident many hours of set up, I'm all for it

And like yon young chappie in the link said his rifle is accurate enough, and who are we to argue?

Short of woogie getting his big hammer and angle grinder out, trying it, and coming back here and saying 'Don't fekin bother lads, its croc'

 

[woogie]

LMAO!!

Yeah that is what I am thinking Vindi.

I want to try and keep the fps to a min. but have the pay out be huge. Aside from using, or even finding a TK barrel.

You would be able to use a much lower spring, thus keeping the bolt pull to a minimum. And allowing a person to focus on other parts for the rifle as well.

Am hoping just to use a bushing or something around the inner barrel and be able to use a grub screw to adjust the "bend". Make a hole small enough in the outter barrel to allow the allen key through while allowing the grub to sit on the bottom of the barrel.

Would be interesting to get it set and then see about putting two more grubs to keep in centered, or to adjust for any condition. Kind of like an Uber hop up.

Still in the planning stage and doing some drawings and what not. Will really start to take off when I sell some stuff to get parts. That and when I get my gas M4

 

[octoberknight]

What would happen if you put more of a bend on the barrel and inverted the hop so that the bb's almost "walks" down the barrel and then propels itself up?

 

[vindicareassassin]

What would happen if you put more of a bend on the barrel and inverted the hop so that the bb's almost "walks" down the barrel and then propels itself up?

From what I gather if you put silly amounts of bend, we are talking 1.5mm+, then all sorts of nasty anomilies start to happen, none of them good for shooting shit with

Woogie -

I'm looking at doing this to my M14/21, using my 509mm madbull barrel and some shims at both end to hold it against the outer, fit an off cut of hop rubber as replacement for the brass hop spacer ring, and a grub screw threaded into the outer as adjustment. (Might end up having to fit grub screws in either end if the shims don't work for any reason)

Because we are only talking a fraction of a mil to gain a reasonable effect I'm fairly sure theres that kind of play in the outer, any shortage can then be boosted by the normal hop..... at least thats the theory so far :-/

I'll need to rethink my hop arm as I still run my hybrid at the mo.

Then if it all goes to shit all I need to do is undo a couple of screws and its still usable

Not going to do it just yet as its my main weapon for next weeks game, so any work will occur after next sunday