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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm just checking with the guys here on the parts list I have for my KART M14. I want to know if everything looks up to par to turn it into a DMR rifle. Let me know if there is anything I should look into changing. Thanks.

List:
Guarder M120 FTK for TM M14s
G&P M120 motor
Stock gears (Ver. 2)
TM M14 Hop-Up
TM M14 Full length Barrel

and of course the externals like a scope and other fun stuff like that.
 

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The M120 motor is for speed, and will have a hard time pulling and actual M120. Look into the torque motors, like M140+ motors. You will get better trigger response too! I've heard good things about torque motors + high speed gears for trigger response (TR), but you should look up this... There are cheap, but good quality gear sets by modify for $40.

Also, you will need a better, and quieter piston head, or this isn't really a DMR. The power is pretty low too, as my AEG runs and M120, and is perfectly field legal for automatics. You might want to look into M130's, putting you around 450 fps, a speed perfect for single shot DMR's. For an acutal DMR you will need a modified cut off switch, making you only shoot semi. If you can shoot auto, is isn't a DMR, and most fields won't allow guns above 400 fps to shoot fully automatic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Okay, aside from the fact a legit "DMR" can only shoot on semi, I really just want as much range as possible. Will a M120 FTK get me at least 200 feet of range? What would it take to get maybe up to 250ish feet?
 

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Ehh... you'd be pushing it... I have around 125 feet of dead on range with my AEG, and around 150 feet of decent range, after that, I'll barely hit... and it will be more worth it too scoot a little bit closer and take my shots. However, my rifle isn't very well tuned, and not many compression parts are upgraded, except for bucking. You could probably go 175 feet of effective range with some tuning, and a bucking replacement (mine is oooold!). I'm running and m120, stock piston, cylinder, and p/c heads.

For ≈225 feet of range, you will need a M130, you would be hard pressed to have pure hop up and compression parts get you there with an M120, and have it felt if you actually can touch that range.

Also, you need need neeeeeed a good battery. My 9.4v is barely cutting it, and I'm only running an M120. A 11.1v lipo is a must for trigger response, and to get the gears around. You will need to take the fully auto capabilities off this gun though :( .
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well what I have there is a total remake of the internals, high quality everything for inside the gearbox minus gears at the moment. So I mean that should help quite a bit. Also, from what I hear the Tokyo Marui M14 is the best one you can get so that along with the Marui tight-bore barrel that will just add to range and accuracy. But what I'm picking up on is I should grab a M130 and cut the full auto out to get more range? Maybe a M140 if I really want to push everything.
 

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Yeah, M140s are a little hard to find, and hard to get within your field boundaries... They will also put ALOT of stress on your GB shell, so watch it. Also, I don't think TM makes a TBB. They do make a precision barrel, but that's fancy talk for a 6.08mm, with good variation. I would recommend a EdGI or PDI barrel if you have the money, if not, go promi, systema, madbull... If you want a DMR, cut the full auto! It's really not necessary, I don't even like it one my AEG.

Also, TM guns are good in some peoples eyes, but bad in others. They are great overall guns, but you sound like you are totally overhauling your gun, so buying nice stock internals is rather useless. The externals are nice, don't get me wrong, but you can do better. Not too familiar with brands of AEG's, but I know high end Ares are nice, but with crap internals... just what you're looking for.

Some people don't recommend these, but I would also say go for a MOSFET if you are running a 11.1v lipo. You trigger contacts will be charcol black after some good use, and polishing them... sucks. Also, with the new "smarter" FETs, you can program them to only shoot 1 bb every trigger pull, eliminating the need for the new cutoff lever.
 

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Well it's not a Kart, TM, or CYMA M14, but my G&G M14 is finally built and up and running.

Why I'm mentioning this, is I have a M120 spring. Followed the Longrange AEG Holy Grail tips here on this forum. Installed a 534mm Systema barrel, PDI bucking, Deepfire aluminum AUG nozzle and I'm able to hit a normal size trash can at approx 240-250ft.

I need to do some more test shooting with it tonight. Mainly because I just installed the PDI bucking last night and the Sun was starting to set, so visibility was fading by the minute.
I could visible see the bb's and here the whack sound as it hit the plastic garbage can.
I had more range with the stock bucking and SCS nub, but the bb's climbed up too much after 220-230ft.

EDGI's are nice. PDI's are better. Not by much. Just noticed more consistency with PDI, but EDGI's have the second tightest shot group. The SYSTEMA I got a couple weeks ago is impressing me, but that's one brand I have little experience with. We will see after some more uses if I'm still amazed at how it's shooting.

My G&G was a bit difficult at first. Stock it shot about 160ft and was less than impressive. Some fine tuning and it's turning heads now.
 

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Google Earth and can see visible land features to know the distance. Usually why I say approximate is because I could be standing a foot or two off where I measure from, but no more than 5 feet off. Just measured again and it was 247.82 ft to the garbage can I shot at three times
and hit

The field I play at has structures also, like a shed, or dumpster and you can see those structures on Google Earth. I typically measure
out that area pretty well to be able to gauge AEG's ranges when
I'm or other people are shooting at the field.

Only bit of information I do not have at the moment is the current FPS of my gun. I need to swing by the field and use the chrono...

M120 spring, but I ensured I got the best compression possible with mainly stock internals.
I had to immediately replace the stock air nozzle, because it broke into two pieces simply
from me sliding it back and forth on the cylinder head nozzle. Also replaced the tappet plate.
It cracked in two also.

Just got the scope and mount in today. Looking to hopefully start a post about my G&G M14 here soon.

awagg - not sure what M14 brand you have. Did not see it above, but skimmed over a few areas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Explosive, what do you think I can get out of a complete Guarder M120 FTK? With a Marui M14 hop-up and Marui barrel? Since you seem to be getting approx 240-250ft. just with a few parts and compression techniques.

I guess you could say one problem is that the TM M14 hop uses a specific M14 cut barrel which are hard to find unless you just use the stock TM barrel.

Lastly, what bucking and nub would you suggest I get for the hop-up? Or just use the TM ones included?
 

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I have used Guarder parts in the past, but never their full tune up kits.
Honestly TM (clones of TM) and G&G M14's are two different beast.

I believe Dwayne who makes Deescustom barrels is now making PCT barrels which will work in TM M14 style hop ups. You can find them on Precision Airsoft.
As for TM stock barrels. I know a local player who still uses his stock TM barrel in his VSR10 and is a ledgend at the big local games.

I really don't but should keep notes on what bucking and nub to suggest. Personally I experiment and see where I get the results. I think every gun is different, especially all the different hop up designs. In one of my guns, Systema bucking reigns supreme, while in my G&G M14, I seem to lose compression with a Systema bucking and had better results with the stock green bucking.

Currently I have the stock nub with a new PDI bucking in my M14. Which reminds me, I need to get home and test it out while the Sun is still bright!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Alright, I think I will just pick up a few different ones and try each out in different combinations and see what works best. And I think I will just stick with the stock TM M14 barrel as I don't want to pay loads of money for a custom Dees barrel.

And also, if anyone has a diagram or is willing to help me assemble my hop-up let me know please. It is in a bag in pieces at the moment and I need to assemble it, but I don't know how to or where to start.
 

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w4r10ck said:
Alright, And I think I will just stick with the stock TM M14 barrel as I don't want to pay loads of money for a custom Dees barrel.

And also, if anyone has a diagram or is willing to help me assemble my hop-up let me know please. It is in a bag in pieces at the moment and I need to assemble it, but I don't know how to or where to start.
I think his barrels run about $65. not bad compared to some...

I know ASGI makes a TM cut tightbore barrel, but I have an ASGI barrel and never had much success with it. Actually Evike's Matrix barrels shot much better, but had less range than EDGI, KWA stock barrel and PDI's.

I say use the TM barrel until you think an upgraded barrel will improve accuracy.

My G&G with stock barrel (polished it) and all my upgrades only shot about 200-220ft. I put in a 509mm PDI and easily increased range and accuracy by 30 feet. The SYSTEMA barrel kept the same range and a bit less accurate than the PDI.

As far as your hop up assemble. Check out Youtube. Should be some videos on there to help you out.



awagg said:
Ok, I remeasured... At 175 feet I can it a 8'' wide tree trunk 8-9/10 times. At 215 I can hit a standing person.
My buddies G&G could hit a 16oz Gatorade bottle at nearly 190ft consistently.
6.03, 509mm EDGI barrel - SCS nub and SYSTEMA bucking.

the only thing is, the bb's climbed after 200ft. I had the same results
with the SCS and SYSTEMA combo too.

screen shot from Google Earth. I set up the Gatorade bottle on the back of a dumpster at the field. Then stand next to a wood shed structure
which you can see both objects in this screen shot.
 

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I use the madbull red bucking and H-nub. A decent hop set up, however since they are both "soft" (bucking and nub), I really need to slide the hop up leaver (AEG). Thinking about a SCS nub... they are really cheap. (Not really in the "tiny piece of plastic sense", but in the "my barrel is $40 sense, and this is relatively inexpensive :) ) How do you like your Systema barrel? As I have one, and am pleased for a $40 barrel. A little lacking on the "accuracy at range", but still really good, with most shots dead on. If I say screw the fully auto function (rarely use it anyways), I will probably go PDI Raven, M130, SCS nub.
 

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the Systema barrel. I usually rate my barrels on how they perform during games. I have not had a chance to field the M14 yet with the Systema barrel installed. For shooting at a target at a known distance I can say I am hitting the target, but it's past 250ft and really only able to hit it 2-3 times out of 8 shots. Now some are near misses.

I can tell you that my PDI 05 barrel is far more consistent and accurate. No real range added, but
the bb flies nearly the same path every time. I'm considering buying a PDI Raven, but not sure if they make that barrel any longer than 455mm since that's the longest I've seen it in.

SCS nub is real nice. Really like them in M4's etc. Just noticing at longer ranges the bb climb upwards.
 
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