Airsoft Sniper Forum banner

1 - 20 of 160 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys,

There seems to be a lot of confusion about all the different variants of maple leaf buckings, which one is the best, what do you need to use one, what's the difference, etc.

So, I've made a video to explain it once and for all :hehe:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRu-pwoMacI

For those who don't like the audiovisual explanation, here's the write-up containing pretty much the same info.

Maple leaf buckings have a concave contact patch rather than a traditional hopup mound. This is the same principle as an R-hop, more contact surface = more backspin + more consistency.

VSR buckings

I'm going to cover VSR buckings first, as the whole story mostly applies to VSR buckings. Maple leaf essentially makes two types of buckings: the delta variant and the diamond variant. To further complicate things, there are the old buckings (called diamond & delta buckings) and there are the new buckings (called autobot and decepticon). This image basically covers them all:



The difference is in the shape of the contact patch. While they are all concave, the delta patches have a triangle shape which ends in a single point. So the last contact with the bb is a single point. The diamond is split in the end and therefore has two contact points, which is more consistent and thus more accurate (theoretically). My personal experience also tells me the same. However, the delta has more contact area than the diamond because the patch is not split, so it could lift heavier bb's with the same fps. That being said, they both have concave patches and both can produce plenty enough lift, so I would say the diamond version is the best one :tup:

The difference between the old and the new buckings is not that great. The new ones have an anti-blow ring and are made of a different rubber, that's pretty much it. However, the new ones seem to wear a lot faster from what I've seen. I don't know if that's due to the different rubber, but I personally prefer the old one (the diamond one). If that's not available, then I would opt for the autobot instead.

Things to keep in mind

Now that we've discussed buckings, I should mention something you need to use this bucking (any of the VSR ML buckings): you will need an open, non-bridged barrel window. Which looks like this:



This is because the patch runs all the way to the back of the bucking, so it won't fit over a bridged barrel. If you have a bridged barrel, you can always file it off. If you don't have a barrel yet, I would recommend buying an action army VSR barrel, those are unbridged :tup:

The next thing you'll need along with any maple leaf bucking is a concave nub. M-nubs and flat nubs also work, but the concave is best since it applies the most even pressure. Maple leaf makes concave nubs. When used in a VSR however, this is a problem, as the VSR chamber won't accept aftermarket nubs. This can be solved by buying an AA chamber (one of the many advantages) which simply accepts aftermarket nubs.

If you don't want an AA chamber for whatever silly reason, then you can also opt for the special arm ML makes for the VSR chamber. This replaces the stock arm. They do suffer from poor quality control though, so it's a bit of a gamble whether you get a good arm. The AA chamber really is the best option (as usual) :hehe:

Different platforms

If you don't have a VSR however, then you can't use a VSR AA chamber. If you have a type 96, then you can get the type 96 AA chamber, but that one takes AEG barrels and buckings. Fortunately, maple leaf also makes AEG buckings!



Unfortunately, for some silly reason, they only make AEG buckings in the "delta" variant. So you can't get the diamond patch if you're using an AEG ML. The delta is not as good as the diamond, it's more like a flat hop while a diamond is more like an R-hop. That being said, it's still pretty darn good, and your best bet if you're not going to do an actual R-hop.

The AEG ML bucking obviously also requires the ML concave nub. What it does not need however, is an unbridged barrel. The AEG ML bucking does fit on a bridged barrel. There aren't even any non-bridged AEG barrels for as far as I know anyway. So you don't need to worry about that if you're using the AEG version in a type 96.

If you're installing this in a DMR (with an AEG chamber) then it is pretty much the same case :tup:

If you have an L96 AWS instead, then you can also install the maple leaf. The L96 AWS takes VSR barrels/buckings, so you can use the diamond bucking along with a VSR barrel. Along with the ML nub, of course. I have described how to install that in the stock L96 AWS chamber here (it's pretty straightforward):

http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/58-aws-aw338/16010-upgrading-l96-aws-platform.html

The last common platform these can be installed into is the KJW M700. These also take VSR barrels and buckings, but not the nub (and chamber, obviously). Fortunately, the stock M700 nub is already concave, and works pretty well so far in the setup I'm currently using, so I would recommend just using the stock nub along with the ML bucking here :hehe:

You can even install the ML in TM-style pistols. Maple leaf makes a "key" which fits into the TM-style GBB chamber, allowing you to use these buckings in GBB pistols as well! Gotta love this company :bow:

Bucking hardness

The last factor is the hardness of the bucking, measured in degrees. The lower the number, the softer the rubber, the higher the harder. Generally, for some reason, manufacturers recommend extremely hard buckings for high fps guns like the sniper rifles we use on this forum, such as 80 degrees. That is however, way too hard. I would personally never use any harder than 70 degree. Any harder, and you're really suffering accuracy, because the harder the rubber, the less grip you will have and the less consistent it will be. If you go softer than 70 degrees however, your bucking will start to wear out faster. 70 degrees last for a very long time however. Compare it to racing tyres, harder rubber = less grip but more durability. Softer rubber = more grip but wears out faster.

You can also go softer than 70 degrees. I personally like 60 degrees nowadays. You can expect a 60 degree maple leaf to last about 10k shots, which is still a lot. It's a tad more accurate than 70 degrees and has a bit more grip, but they will both work just fine. I would not however put 50 in a 500 fps gun as it will wear very quick and you may get airseal issues due to the soft rubber :hehe:

I think that covers everything! If you have any questions or remarks, be sure to post them here or just shoot me a PM :yup:

Cheers, :)
Reliku
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Great, just watching the video now.

I've ordered maple leaf rubber and nub as shown in the picture below. I bought the 70* hardness rubber.
Do you feel these would be a good combo?

This is all new territory for me, I used to run a simple nineball in the standard vsr hop unit with good results but things have changed a fair bit in the years I stopped playing.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, that seems to be the one. That bucking doesn't exactly look like the right one but if it's indeed the "monster" bucking for the VSR then it will be the diamond version. If it's the delta bucking then it's specifically advertised as such :tup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Yes, that seems to be the one. That bucking doesn't exactly look like the right one but if it's indeed the "monster" bucking for the VSR then it will be the diamond version. If it's the delta bucking then it's specifically advertised as such :tup:
Hi Reliku,

The hop rubber I bought was this one:
http://www.ebairsoft.com/mapleleaf-monster-hopup-rubber-marui-pistol-p-6569.html

It lists VSR in the description so I assumed it was suitable :)

The nub was a little harder to find. I had to order an AEG rubber and nub combo just for the nub. I got that one here: Maple Leaf Hybrid Hop Up Rubber Set 70 Degree for AEG - Buy airsoft Accessories online from RedWolf Airsoft

Note, obviously I'm only using the nub from this combo and the rubber will no doubt go in the bin as I had no need for it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,747 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That looks like it would work, yes :tup:

The nub is pretty hard to find generally. I don't know why, but they're always sold out for some reason :hehe:

EDIT: The one Plazma linked is indeed the correct one. But they're essentially the same. The blue nub is a bit softer than the black one though, so the black one is preferred, but both will work ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Reliku, do you have any data on how the ML buckings compare to an rhop?

I was thinking of trying the new ML buckings, but unsure if they're worth it or I should just rhop it instead?

Oh, also- what is your preferred ML setup? I read that you prefer diamond, but is that the old or new diamond type bucking?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
A well done Rhop is better than a ML bucking, but it will also take a large amount more work to install and get done right. If you're after pure performance and are willing to deal with the Rhop hassle, it will be superior. But if you're looking for a quick and easy install, just go maple leaf.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YoetoJoe

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
Nice write up, very informative! I can't wait to watch the video once I get home, although I already know this topic very well. Hopefully this will help to curb some of the redundant questions regarding VSR style buckings.

You get a gold star for the day Reliku!

+1 vote to get this sticked


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I prefer the old diamond yes, it's the most consistent one in my experience.

I haven't seen any performance from the R-hop that was really outstandingly better than the maple leaf. Then again, I haven't done an awful lot of R-hops myself either. But then again, I haven't encountered other people with R-hops who were more accurate than a maple leaf. And while it's possible that I just suck at doing R-hops, it would be a little far fetched to state that all those people I've compared to also had poor R-hops.

R-hop does have more contact surface though, so theoretically, it is better, especially when it comes to heavy (really heavy) bb's. But my personal opinion is that they're pretty similar in terms of performance :tup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
Maple leaf buckings (& why you should use them)

I have a question, slightly off topic but still related to buckings.

How does the hardness of the nub effect hop performance?

For example, some rifles use a brass nub which is unyielding. Does a harder nub provide more hop, and is there any reason why one would want a "softer" nub? Or are metal nubs intended for R-hop & not so much for a maple leaf bucking?

Basically what I am getting at is, what would happen if I dropped a brass nub in with a maple leaf 60degree bucking?

Edit: does a softer nub provide more grip on the bb?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
877 Posts
I have a question, slightly off topic but still related to buckings.

How does the hardness of the nub effect hop performance?

For example, some rifles use a brass nub which is unyielding. Does a harder nub provide more hop, and is there any reason why one would want a "softer" nub? Or are metal nubs intended for R-hop & not so much for a maple leaf bucking?

Basically what I am getting at is, what would happen if I dropped a brass nub in with a maple leaf 60degree bucking?

Edit: does a softer nub provide more grip on the bb?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is a very interesting topic, and is something I am currently working on sorting out on my own dmr build. From my own tests, a very hard nub (brass, hard plastic, etc) does not work very well because it doesn't allow the bucking to conform to the contours of the BB. If this is placed in a flat hop or standard mound bucking, it causes the bucking to only have one, very small point of contact with the BB which in turn means an inconsistent hop. This is because the BB doesn't seat in the same position each time. Now, if you had something like a concave nub that was very hard, and matched the bucking's shape, you could theoretically get the BB to seat at the exact same spot. I theorize this would lead to pretty good/consistent performance.

On the other hand, if a nub is too soft, the pressure it applies down on the bucking becomes uneven and inconsistent. As a BB passes beneath the nub/bucking, it can shift the nub slightly and again lead to unstable or inconsistent hop.

The ideal is between the two (unsurprisingly) You want something that will contour to the BB, but still remain stiff enough to hold its own shape and apply even/constant pressure.

To answer your question about using a hard nub in a maple leaf, I think you might be able to get away with it mostly because there's more rubber beneath the maple leaf which means there's more squish. A few of the maple leaf arms are already metal, and the normal tensioner rubber is pretty tough. I don't think it should hurt too much so long as you have it in the right shape.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reliku

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
He already answered that. Its one of the last paragraphs.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Like Whale says, hard nubs only work in applications where only a little pressure is needed, such as with R-hops or maple leafs. If you put a hard nub on a normal bucking then it won't yield when the bb passes underneath which is obviously no good. It can lead to jams and it is less consistent because the nub's shape doesn't follow the bb's shape.

However, with a concave nub/bucking, this is not the case. You only need a very tiny amount of pressure and the concave nub already has the shape of the bb. Therefore hard nubs do work with R-hops and maple leafs, but not so well with normal buckings :tup:

The nub I use in my M700 is actually a solid nub :hehe:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
I was asking specifically about R-hop and ML buckings. A metal nub will obviously cause issues in a traditional mound style bucking.

So is there no "real" benefit to utilizing a solid metal nub?

Are they meant to provide extra hop when lifting heavyweight BBs (.66g)? Or is a metal nub more of a longevity part?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Metal nubs are mostly used to lift very heavy bb's yes, durability is the same. Nubs don't wear out :hehe:

But no, I wouldn't say there's a real benefit when using normal bb's. Using super heavy bb's however, the metal nub is able to apply more pressure because it doesn't deform like a rubber nub. But they obviously get pinch jams a lot sooner if you're not careful :yup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
Metal nubs are mostly used to lift very heavy bb's yes, durability is the same. Nubs don't wear out :hehe:

But no, I wouldn't say there's a real benefit when using normal bb's. Using super heavy bb's however, the metal nub is able to apply more pressure because it doesn't deform like a rubber nub. But they obviously get pinch jams a lot sooner if you're not careful :yup:
Thank you for the clarification, that's what I was thinking but I wanted to confirm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Reliku seeing that you understand maple leaf buckings and nubs in general, would you say it is also possible to get pinch jam when using ml bucking with ml cnc hop up arm in stock vsr chamber?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,148 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes. But you'd have to turn it all the way down.

All types of hopup can get a pinch jam if you apply too much force, which usually happens if you try to lift bb's that are too heavy for your hopup/fps to handle. It doesn't really happen with the maple leafs during normal use because they can generate plenty of lift in 500 fps guns, but it will happen if you try to lift a .45 bb with 300 fps, for example :hehe:

But generally speaking, nothing to worry about :tup:
 
1 - 20 of 160 Posts
Top